母語教學危機 英文會考成績沒落

happy-b

香港政府推方言廣東話教學，到底是否希望我們能講寫流利廣東話，只能面向7百萬港人，放棄12億的中國同胞呢？？

CJma

happy-b 寫道:
香港政府推方言廣東話教學，到底是否希望我們能講寫流利廣東話，只能面向7百萬港人，放棄12億的中國同胞呢？？

我也有同樣的疑惑——
廣東話需不需要發展及普及自己獨特的文學語言？安徒生童話，海蒂，尼爾斯騎鵝旅行記，需不需要另有廣東話的譯本？
廣東話是不同的民族語言還是屬於漢語的方言？

CJma

前面一篇文章提到“內地其他地方的方言和普通話之間，可能只是一些地方有口音上的區別，…在內地，說方言的和說普通話的兩個人之間交流，即使是再偏僻的地方的方言，連猜帶蒙，也都差不多能够明白；”

——很明顯這個作者是北方語系的人，他說得這種情况只適用于內地北方語系的地區。在內地南方不少地方的方言與普通話的差异比廣東話還大，香港人比較知道的大概有閩南話，在臺灣也稱臺語，其方言文化也比較發達，主要表現在其特有的歌曲民謠及戲曲方面。一些專門研究語言的學者也爲閩南話編寫了特有的拼音及專用字，但是這並不影響閩南話地區的人們掌握“規範的漢語”。

ChiChiPaPa

閩南話地區的人們正面對相同的問題:

請參閱『閩南方言區“推普”工作的思考』http://www.eduol.cn/web-ia/web/zj_wz_s.asp-id=192.htm

網上的維基百科有粵語和閩南語版，大家有興趣可以看看:

閩南語版本:http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%96%A9%E5%8D%97%E8%AA%9E%E7%B6%AD%E5%9F%BA%E7%99%BE%E7%A7%91

但維基百科用閩南語寫，就比粵語難，只能用白話字這套文字系統來寫閩南語。詳情可看Wikipedia:聊天/2005年8月http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E8%81%8A%E5%A4%A9/2005%E5%B9%B48%E6%9C%88

囝囝爸

From BBC News.......

School leavers 'lacking three Rs'

The education system is failing to ensure enough school leavers master the "three Rs", a survey has suggested.
The CBI said 42% of the employers it surveyed were unhappy with reading, writing and numeracy skills.
Half thought school leavers lacked communication and team-working skills. The CBI demanded government "action as well as words" to raise standards.
The Department for Education said there were already proposals to improve the basics and introduce "tougher" GCSEs.

Reforms
A spokesman said reforms to league tables would also lead to schools being judged on their ability to help pupils score five A to C grades in GCSEs including English and maths.
The existing measurement of five C grades or better in any subjects will be phased out by 2008.
"These changes will ensure that all schools are focusing on ensuring their pupils are equipped with the basic skills," the spokesman added.
The general secretary of the Secondary Heads Association agreed that the issue was being addressed.
John Dunford told BBC News: "I do think that schools have become aware that they are needing to put more emphasis on achievements in basic maths and English.
"Up until now, of course, schools have been deemed successful if students get any five A to C passes at the GCSE."
But he said the government's new performance indicators for schools would ensure students had to achieve "a certain level in the basics".
Schools now had a wider responsibility in preparing pupils for life and were expected to teach broader skills than just the "three Rs", Mr Dunford added.

'Vital foundation'
The Confederation of British Industry published its survey ahead of the release of this year's GCSE results on 25 August.
The organisation said barely half of GCSE students achieved a Grade C or above in maths (54%) and 60% the same standard in English.
"The figures are evidence the system is failing teenagers and the taxpayer, as well as employers - who have to pay for remedial lessons for new recruits on top of the taxes they have already paid to fund the education system," it said.
Director general Sir Digby Jones said: "A working knowledge of English and maths provides a vital foundation for the modern world of work - but the education system is failing many young people by leaving them ill-equipped."
The CBI said its 2004 survey figures found 83% of businesses thought the education system's first priority should be improving literacy and numeracy levels.
Eight out of 10 jobs required a basic competency in the "three Rs" it said.
"The CBI welcomed the government's pledge of a 'relentless drive' to raise standards and eradicate illiteracy and innumeracy but there has been no clear action to back up the promises of February's education white paper," Sir Digby said.
"We need to see action as well as words - at the moment the UK economy is losing up to £10 billion a year because of poor basic skills, whilst our school-leavers are held back from fulfilling their potential.
"Too many emerge from our education system with no feeling of self-worth - leading to social dislocation, crime and wasted futures."

==============================

以上一則在BBC News讀到的有關英國學生基本能力的文章, 英國僱主不滿學生的寫讀和計算能力, 這是僱主對工作的基本要求, 這種不足使經濟受損每年數以十億鎊計. 英國教育當局己作出相應提議將會把考試程度收緊提高.

以英語母語教學的英國學生英文也學得不好, 我們怎可祈望我們要雙語學習的學生學得好英語, 英中仍有改善空間, 中中在中四才能轉台較全面接觸英文, 學科名詞用語記完中文再記英文, 花雙倍時間, 有人提議可課餘自學英語, 又是要課外加倍努力和時間, 但時間總是不夠, 唯一是填鴨學習, 成績效果不言而喻. 所以有說我們教育資源投放大, 學校家長學生也努力辛苦, 也得不到好成效.  因為大部分學生學得沈重, 他們要負上兩個語言大包袱, 要跟母語主流學, 心裡也忘不了升學就業的主流要追回英語, 我們的中中生是不是太辛苦?  祇背一個包袱的英中生比較辛福, 讀得一樣辛苦, 但他們學得有效應, 有目標.

真希望我們的社會升學就業不偏重英文, 來適應我們教育的偉大主流母語目標, 令學生不用無所適從.

happy-b

一個在將來20年也不可能發生的夢，我們在對外商業運作的語言將只會越來越倚重普通話及英語。
如繼續堅持方言廣東話目標，除非你希望妳的子女活在最低工資綫。

囝囝爸 寫道:
.......
真希望我們的社會升學就業不偏重英文, 來適應我們教育的偉大主流母語目標, 令學生不用無所適從.

CJma

ChiChiPaPa 寫道:
網上的維基百科有粵語和閩南語版，大家有興趣可以看看:

閩南語版本:http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%96%A9%E5%8D%97%E8%AA%9E%E7%B6%AD%E5%9F%BA%E7%99%BE%E7%A7%91

但維基百科用閩南語寫，就比粵語難，只能用白話字這套文字系統來寫閩南語。詳情可看Wikipedia:聊天/2005年8月http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E8%81%8A%E5%A4%A9/2005%E5%B9%B48%E6%9C%88

wa∼∼，  
ChiChiPaPa，
我係學工科嘅，點知變咗研究語言學啦。

CJma

[quote]
happy-b 寫道:
我們在對外商業運作的語言將只會越來越倚重普通話及英語。
如繼續堅持方言廣東話目標，除非你希望妳的子女活在最低工資綫。


fully agree!

或者成爲另一個黃霑。

happy-b

CJMa,

如果單是廣東話流利，似乎沒有可能成為黃霑。
黃霑是喇沙書院出身，英文水準不用說吧，來看看他的學業過程：
黃霑在廣州1941年出生，八兄弟姊妹中排行第六，1949年隨父母移居香港，入讀喇沙書院。1963年在香港大學中文系畢業，1983年獲港大哲學碩士學位，2003年於香港大學社會科學系取得哲學博士學位，論文題目為《粵語流行曲的發展與興衰：香港流行音樂研究（1949-1997）》[ The rise and decline of cantopop : a study of Hong Kong popular music (1949-1997) ] 。
。

===================

[quote]
CJma 寫道:
[quote]
happy-b 寫道:
我們在對外商業運作的語言將只會越來越倚重普通話及英語。
如繼續堅持方言廣東話目標，除非你希望妳的子女活在最低工資

ChiChiPaPa

uncleedward 寫道:
I am quite interested in seeing what the response Dr Cheng will give to the government’s reply. If you happen to see it , can you post it here?

鄭燕祥﹕公開數據 讓公眾討論 ——強迫教學語言政策的認受性
http://hk.news.yahoo.com/050826/12/1fzty.html

I believe that the Government will not release the figures.  For the same band of students, in all subjects, the average results of English Schools are likely to be better than the averages of Chinese Schools.