李國章-某程度上 I agree with you!

happybibi

我個仔係由一間活動教學的非牟利幼稚園轉到一間傳統教學的牟利幼稚園.  老實說, 我不太介意囝囝會學會多少書本上的知識, 也不是要考名牌小學, 最重要的是他有一個快樂的童年, 和能愛上 “上學”.  所以一開始我只考慮活動教學.  但出奇地, 囝囝非常喜歡現在傳統教學的幼稚園.  雖然要做功課, 又要默書(我地兩公婆從沒有同囝囝溫書或督促做工課, 一切都是自動波), 但是他絕對是一個快活人.

而這間幼稚園, 我相信在李局長心目中一定是不合格的.  我想說的是, 每個小朋友都不一樣,  沒有一套理論是適合所有不同類型的小朋友的, 請不要用學卷制去握殺這類幼稚園的生存空間.

pangpuiyee

babyhowie,
很高興得知你的小朋友入讀一間有小學,中學的活動教學幼稚園. 請問可否告訴我是那一間? 謝謝.

我覺得, 愉快學習唔一定要冇測驗默書, 而係視乎小朋友的能力和性格. 有d小朋友鍾意有競爭, 考試是刺激他進步的動力. 但有d小朋友對坐定定聽書的冇興趣, 這時老師要想想辨法.
所以兩種教學方式都冇錯, 但小班教學就一定是好的, 因為老師能照顧不同類型的學生. 我send了email 到[email protected] 內容如下:

"我認為保持社會人口數量和質量是政府要做的事. 以新加坡為例, 政府十分支持有學識, 有教養等質量較高的夫婦生兒育女, 令社會文化水平提高.

但政府現時推行這套幼稚園學卷這政策未能激勵學識和文化水平較優質的夫婦生育, 原本打算再生育的家庭會感到教養下一代並不受到社會的支持. 雖然一萬元學費一般中產家庭可以負擔, 但被遣棄的感覺絕對不好受.

以本人為例, 我有一個3歲女兒, 我對她的教導和期望是: 要成為一個有用的人, 將來社會需要你時要出一分力, 造福社群.

由於人口老化, 這是社會需要年青新力軍的時候. 其實, 很多父母都想多生幾個小孩. 因為這都算是為社會出一分力. 希望政府能給予支持, 令整個社會更和諧.

謝謝."

我只係想香港好啫, 唉....

pangpuiyee

Eddie&Sylvia 寫道:
學卷制理念上的謬誤:
學卷制提升幼稚園水準 - 為何用牟利/非牟利來定邊d幼稚園有學卷?
學卷制不資助私人企業牟利 - 為何用學費來定邊d非牟利幼稚園有學卷?
政府有低油稅資助貨車車主,巴士公司, 有各式置業貸款資助人買私人樓, 中小企好似有低息貸款, 全都係私人牟利企業, 點解政府又有各式資助?????????

同意!!!

Sindy

見同你熟,所以先回應你,其實上到小一,好多學校都會重溫返k3學既野,大約半個學期到,所以係幼稚園點谷法都好,係同升小無關的呀,幼稚園默書寫字,唔係早就係快人一步的,因為呢d野,可以用間接又輕鬆既方法訓練,只要係小學試一兩次默書(有d係幼稚園高班下學期試下),便有顯效果,所以我唔認同有某幼稚園,係k2就默書,有d甚致係k1已默cat之類既字.....好似可以係幼兒時,比佢玩多d泥膠,一樣收到寫字效果,我仔從未做連線之類既練習,但佢而家可以寫到1-10,A,B,C,DEFGHILOPQSTUVZ呢d字......所以唔駛急呢...

又因為我細女幼稚園唔係咁多功課量,所以我細女好鐘意做功課,唔駛打打鬧鬧呢........

淺既幼稚園,係大人驚佢地升小會有個gap,但其實呢個gap係唔存在的呀

小朋友係鐘意有多d空間去自我學習的呀,成日都係度默書串生字,握殺左佢地既創意空間,呢d係無得返轉頭的呀

p.s.有d小學係教高半年,呢d只係skip左幼稚園教過既野,所以係幼稚園高班時,係跟到個課程既話,都唔駛驚佢跟唔到小學課程的.....

monmantong 寫道:
Smallegg,

agree with your comment" 其實私立幼稚園程度深啲,都係為迎接小學作準備".. I asked a teacher that she said if under " non-profit " kindergartens, the curriculum is also under the evaluation by the Eduation dept..
I also agree that kids must be studying happily in the kindergartens, if only playing, no writing , no assignment, no test are fine, HOWEVER, HOW CAN CATCH UP THE HK PRIMARY SCHOOLS.

For most of the Government Primary schools, they have assigned the kids into different classes..
I just heard that there is 精精班" , means 精英中精英..
.. For the education dept, it emphasis not to persue the marks of the tests, exam, however, only 0.1 different of the mark, the kid may fall out 10 nbrs of the class. So, under such education system, how can select our schools.  

AggieMe

學卷尚未實施, 但已傷了一衆家長嘅"和氣"。

每個家長都做過"細路", 自有一套"標準, 喺能力範圍內 選擇一間認為適合自己小朋友嘅學校。
所以家長們冇必要去引用一些極端嘅例子去形象化咗 牟利/非牟利幼稚園,  請專重別人嘅選擇。

我自己用了一年時間去揀學校， 最後揀左一間非牟利 及 一間私立幼稚園,  結果囡囡fail 左非牟利但pass左私立, 所以讀左私立 ( 慶幸有一間fail左, 可以唔駛再傷腦筋去揀)。
所以, 對我黎講, 非牟利 / 牟利都有好學校。

李局長話有8成牟利 / 3.5成非牟利幼稚園未達標, 首先你要話俾我知你嘅標準係如何釐定, 並說服我去認同你嘅標準,
如果一間幼稚園, 佢可以俾到小朋友一個愉快嘅學習環境而又令到小朋友樂於去吸收更多知識, 咁個人覺呢間 係"超標", 而非"未達標"。
小朋友嘅好奇心好强, 你有辦法抽起佢條筋, 佢自然会想知多d / 學多d,  唔一定要同 "壓力 "拉埋一齊講。

何謂"愉快童年"?  係要好多嘢加埋先成就得到。 我嘅童年好快樂,  讀幼稚園嗰陣一樣有俾先生鬧, 俾先生罰。  讀書只係其中一部份, 當中嘅寫字/默書只佔"童年"一小小部份, 未致於会决定到小朋友嘅童年"快樂 或 唔快樂",  最重要係父母識得点去平衡,  佢唔識嘅話, 你同佢講幾多道理都冇用。   


********

補充:  揀呢同間私立幼稚園前, 上網睇過教署視學報告, comment 係 " 校監對教育工作有熱誠... 外籍教師備課充足, 運用活動教學方式令學生初步接觸英語...投入愉快...."   
結果幫個女揀左國際班,    1 班 20 人 有１個外籍班主任 & 1個華籍班主任,  師生比例 1:10,  獨立校舍, 內 / 外playground,   功課唔多, 反而会鼓勵家長喺屋企透過自製玩具/遊戲(教埋你点做)去啟發小朋友對學習嘅興趣。
半日制1 個月學費連雜費 約 HK$2,650,  唔駛再比錢出去學英文 ( 私立幼稚園唔一定間間都收幾千蚊1個月 )。

問題係 " 呢間算唔算係一間所謂 達標 嘅幼稚園 ? " ( 睇怕都唔算係...)

monmantong

Sindy,

i understand what you said. Different people have their own measurement ruler and points of view. I am also looking for a school providing very happy environment, all-round developments , no pressures... however, under such education system,... nothing I can say..

Maybe I heard a lot of the negative comments about the curriculum matching problem between kindergartens and primary schools, which are from the mouths of the primary school teachers or the parents..


because my case is very different to you, my school net is not good  that's why I really want him study a higher academic level kindergartens. But I am very sure that his existing schol can provide both high academic level and happy school life, not harsh pushing, and it is a private school.

由 Sindy 於 2006-10-18 19:29:42由 Sindy 於 2006-10-18 19:29:42

見同你熟,所以先回應你,其實上到小一,好多學校都會重溫返k3學既野,大約半個學期到,所以係幼稚園點谷法都好,係同升小無關的呀,幼稚園默書寫字,唔係早就係快人一步的,因為呢d野,可以用間接又輕鬆既方法訓練,只要係小學試一兩次默書(有d係幼稚園高班下學期試下),便有顯效果,所以我唔認同有某幼稚園,係k2就默書,有d甚致係k1已默cat之類既字.....好似可以係幼兒時,比佢玩多d泥膠,一樣收到寫字效果,我仔從未做連線之類既練習,但佢而家可以寫到1-10,A,B,C,DEFGHILOPQSTUVZ呢d字......所以唔駛急呢...

又因為我細女幼稚園唔係咁多功課量,所以我細女好鐘意做功課,唔駛打打鬧鬧呢........

淺既幼稚園,係大人驚佢地升小會有個gap,但其實呢個gap係唔存在的呀

小朋友係鐘意有多d空間去自我學習的呀,成日都係度默書串生字,握殺左佢地既創意空間,呢d係無得返轉頭的呀

p.s.有d小學係教高半年,呢d只係skip左幼稚園教過既野,所以係幼稚園高班時,係跟到個課程既話,都唔駛驚佢跟唔到小學課程的.....

TakTakMa

ArgusMum 寫道:
李生同曾生D政府高官都對私校幼稚園咁反感...為何佢地既高官....財爺既囝囡都係讀ST.CAXX??????????
相信部份高官,佢地都係呢類學校出黎啦.....為咩??

可能見到d自認中產, 但月入唔夠十萬的人同d高官d囝囡一起讀書唔多like, 出d手段等呢d人知難而退. 鬼叫我地窮但又要將d細路送去d私校讀咩...

dina

smallegg 寫道:
其實私立幼稚園程度深啲,都係為迎接小學作準備。既然講得私立幼稚園咁唔好，高官同名人子女又入讀?莫非屋企瞓得唔舒服，要去幼稚園瞓覺    ,納稅人交稅,佢哋嘅子女應全部受惠,點解仲要分唔分牟利?唔知平等機會委員會會唔會覺得政府歧視緊私立幼稚園呢?:

政府次次都係咁，先斬後奏，到時見招拆招，到比市民窒到冇聲出，就開始胡言亂語，越講越離譜,真係要拍醒呢班人       

absolutely agree!!我個女也是在一間私立幼稚園，程度深，但是她返學很開心，又學到

katyfok

Of course.. nothing is absolutely right/wrong......

There are certainly outstanding children who genuinely enjoy going to strict schools... they don't mind tests after tests , they enjoy the challenge... and don't feel they've turned into" Peking Duck" themselves.... look at those proud face on their parents and children, you know it works for them!

Are they just clueless? I don't know …  if it works for you now….nothing wrong with it.

But it's not about happy childhood nor 學卷..
it's about our children becoming an ultimate 'Receiver' in the long run.

The reason for not recommending children to write /or memorizing too many words in early age is because of it’s highly possible negative impact on a child IN THE LATER YEARS. ( which is recognized by most western world)

It’s about possible unexplainable pressure.
It’s about possible fear or hesitation about school later on.
It’s about turning into possible ‘note taking machine’
It’s about possibly killing their creativity.
It's about affecting their learning style and ability to explore and question about what they were taught.

I think Creativity, Ability to Think/ Question others….. that’s what I want from my child.( beside learning what’s right/wrong in life)
and I wouldn’t wanna jeopardize that!


  

Sindy

我個區都唔係好多我滿意既學校...我係14網呀,所以我兩個女都唔係本區讀書...我仔都頭痛緊架.....不過我既定位好清楚,我唔要係幼稚園咁細個既階段測驗默書,我都講過,唔係一定要程度高先可以學到野的.......係幼稚園,我地可以用閱讀既方法幫助佢地上小一時個語文基礎,默書測驗係幫唔到手的呀(係幼稚園時),佢地閱讀得多,自然會記得d字,寫字既組合萬變不離其中,唔係默得多書,學得深d字就可以的......你得閒打比我丫......我再同你講多d,hehe

我初初都有懷疑個細女既幼稚園,係k3時好少默書,但原來佢地真係啱的........

monmantong 寫道:
Sindy,

i understand what you said. Different people have their own measurement ruler and points of view. I am also looking for a school providing very happy environment, all-round developments , no pressures... however, under such education system,... nothing I can say..

Maybe I heard a lot of the negative comments about the curriculum matching problem between kindergartens and primary schools, which are from the mouths of the primary school teachers or the parents..


because my case is very different to you, my school net is not good  that's why I really want him study a higher academic level kindergartens. But I am very sure that his existing schol can provide both high academic level and happy school life, not harsh pushing, and it is a private school.

babyhowie

Sindy 寫道:
我唔認同有某幼稚園,係k2就默書,有d甚致係k1已默cat之類既字.....好似可以係幼兒時,比佢玩多d泥膠,一樣收到寫字效果,我仔從未做連線之類既練習,但佢而家可以寫到1-10,A,B,C,DEFGHILOPQSTUVZ呢d字......所以唔駛急呢...

又因為我細女幼稚園唔係咁多功課量,所以我細女好鐘意做功課,唔駛打打鬧鬧呢........

淺既幼稚園,係大人驚佢地升小會有個gap,但其實呢個gap係唔存在的呀

小朋友係鐘意有多d空間去自我學習的呀,成日都係度默書串生字,握殺左佢地既創意空間,呢d係無得返轉頭的呀

我絕對同意Sindy所講

monmantong

Sindy,
thanks for sharing. you have more headache than me,... because you have 3 children.

I agree that reading is very very important.. you know, from reading , my son can learn a lot of words. of course I believe we cannot rely on school education, home education is more important.
I must ask your advice for the primary school issue, .. as I may try HK net for round 1 and 2 ..   

[quote]由 Sindy 於 2006-10-19 00:30:23[由 Sindy 於 2006-10-19 00:30:23

我個區都唔係好多我滿意既學校...我係14網呀,所以我兩個女都唔係本區讀書...我仔都頭痛緊架.....不過我既定位好清楚,我唔要係幼稚園咁細個既階段測驗默書,我都講過,唔係一定要程度高先可以學到野的.......係幼稚園,我地可以用閱讀既方法幫助佢地上小一時個語文基礎,默書測驗係幫唔到手的呀(係幼稚園時),佢地閱讀得多,自然會記得d字,寫字既組合萬變不離其中,唔係默得多書,學得深d字就可以的......你得閒打比我丫......我再同你講多d,hehe

我初初都有懷疑個細女既幼稚園,係k3時好少默書,但原來佢地真係啱的........

/quote]

emmypun

咁都俾你諗到?  咪成日係度鑽牛角尖啦, 笑c我咩.           

TakTakMa 寫道:
[quote]
ArgusMum 寫道:
李生同曾生D政府高官都對私校幼稚園咁反感...為何佢地既高官....財爺既囝囡都係讀ST.CAXX??????????
相信部份高官,佢地都係呢類學校出黎啦.....為咩??

可能見到d自認中產, 但月入唔夠十萬的人同d高官d囝囡一起讀書唔多like, 出d手段等呢d人知難而退. 鬼叫我地窮但又要將d細路送去d私校讀咩...[/quote]

ArgusMum

其實就咁睇呢到大家既意見...就知活動教學同吹谷型幼稚園都各有支持者.
但我覺得為何有家長硬是覺得比小朋友讀吹谷型幼稚園,要默書,要寫字,就係扼殺左小朋友既創意同愉快童年??就算而家我小朋友係讀緊呢類幼稚園,都唔會講人地讀緊活動教學幼稚園既小朋友學唔到野...上小學又辛苦等等啦...........
大家都為人父母,唔通真係會為左死谷爛谷個小朋友就睇住佢地辛苦,睇住佢地日日喊住做功課咩??揀得傳統幼稚園,係因為覺得自己小朋友受得呢套,返學又見佢開心先比佢讀落去姐....有咩問題?
總之,只有做父母既先會明白自己仔女適合讀咩類型幼稚園.
而兩類幼稚園也各有好處...無話一面好晒既..

babyhowie 寫道:
[quote]
Sindy 寫道:
我唔認同有某幼稚園,係k2就默書,有d甚致係k1已默cat之類既字.....好似可以係幼兒時,比佢玩多d泥膠,一樣收到寫字效果,我仔從未做連線之類既練習,但佢而家可以寫到1-10,A,B,C,DEFGHILOPQSTUVZ呢d字......所以唔駛急呢...

又因為我細女幼稚園唔係咁多功課量,所以我細女好鐘意做功課,唔駛打打鬧鬧呢........

淺既幼稚園,係大人驚佢地升小會有個gap,但其實呢個gap係唔存在的呀

小朋友係鐘意有多d空間去自我學習的呀,成日都係度默書串生字,握殺左佢地既創意空間,呢d係無得返轉頭的呀

我絕對同意Sindy所講

ArgusMum

又真係幾好想像力喎....哈哈   

emmypun 寫道:
咁都俾你諗到?  咪成日係度鑽牛角尖啦, 笑c我咩.            [quote]
TakTakMa 寫道:
[quote]
ArgusMum 寫道:
李生同曾生D政府高官都對私校幼稚園咁反感...為何佢地既高官....財爺既囝囡都係讀ST.CAXX??????????
相信部份高官,佢地都係呢類學校出黎啦.....為咩??

可能見到d自認中產, 但月入唔夠十萬的人同d高官d囝囡一起讀書唔多like, 出d手段等呢d人知難而退. 鬼叫我地窮但又要將d細路送去d私校讀咩...[/quote][/quote]

Sindy

除非天資好好既小朋友,否則幼稚園都用個幾鐘頭做功課,又用個幾鐘頭溫書/默書......咁佢地要訓下教....咁成日大部份時間都去左,又有乜時間用黎培養創意空間呢....呢類遊戲,都幾side時間架...我女佢地,玩下角色扮演,又成粒幾鐘,拎張紙自由畫下,又成粒鐘,又有時間比佢觀察下身邊環境兼拆下野,都要粒幾鐘......傳統教學都不合時宜架啦....唔係既話...都唔會有咁多傳統名校幼稚園轉做活動教學啦.......

ArgusMum 寫道:
其實就咁睇呢到大家既意見...就知活動教學同吹谷型幼稚園都各有支持者.
但我覺得為何有家長硬是覺得比小朋友讀吹谷型幼稚園,要默書,要寫字,就係扼殺左小朋友既創意同愉快童年??就算而家我小朋友係讀緊呢類幼稚園,都唔會講人地讀緊活動教學幼稚園既小朋友學唔到野...上小學又辛苦等等啦...........
大家都為人父母,唔通真係會為左死谷爛谷個小朋友就睇住佢地辛苦,睇住佢地日日喊住做功課咩??揀得傳統幼稚園,係因為覺得自己小朋友受得呢套,返學又見佢開心先比佢讀落去姐....有咩問題?
總之,只有做父母既先會明白自己仔女適合讀咩類型幼稚園.
而兩類幼稚園也各有好處...無話一面好晒既..

owenmami

Sindy,

可否講o下係邊間?
我囝囝o個間出名谷，都可以於一個鐘內完成每天的功課。

Sindy 寫道:
除非天資好好既小朋友,否則幼稚園都用個幾鐘頭做功課,又用個幾鐘頭溫書/默書......咁佢地要訓下教....咁成日大部份時間都去左,又有乜時間用黎培養創意空間呢....呢類遊戲,都幾side時間架...我女佢地,玩下角色扮演,又成粒幾鐘,拎張紙自由畫下,又成粒鐘,又有時間比佢觀察下身邊環境兼拆下野,都要粒幾鐘......傳統教學都不合時宜架啦....唔係既話...都唔會有咁多傳統名校幼稚園轉做活動教學啦.......

[quote]
ArgusMum 寫道:
其實就咁睇呢到大家既意見...就知活動教學同吹谷型幼稚園都各有支持者.
但我覺得為何有家長硬是覺得比小朋友讀吹谷型幼稚園,要默書,要寫字,就係扼殺左小朋友既創意同愉快童年??就算而家我小朋友係讀緊呢類幼稚園,都唔會講人地讀緊活動教學幼稚園既小朋友學唔到野...上小學又辛苦等等啦...........
大家都為人父母,唔通真係會為左死谷爛谷個小朋友就睇住佢地辛苦,睇住佢地日日喊住做功課咩??揀得傳統幼稚園,係因為覺得自己小朋友受得呢套,返學又見佢開心先比佢讀落去姐....有咩問題?
總之,只有做父母既先會明白自己仔女適合讀咩類型幼稚園.
而兩類幼稚園也各有好處...無話一面好晒既..

[/quote]

Sindy

九龍塘又有,港島東都有呀.........寫兩版字,加張工作紙,都已經要個幾鐘,係得呢類谷既學校度讀,乜都要執到正一正,見過一個幼稚園,要求小朋友寫到大人咁靚的呀.......搞錯呀...寫得到大人咁靚,佢就係大人啦.........所以我真係好不滿呢d學校.....

owenmami 寫道:
Sindy,

可否講o下係邊間?
我囝囝o個間出名谷，都可以於一個鐘內完成每天的功課。

ArgusMum

我都想知...
幼稚園用幾個鐘頭去默書,幾個鐘頭去做功課??
我囝囝唔係特別天資好好..但佢每日有3樣功課,都可以用20-30分鐘內完成喎...
佢既同學仔....都好似無一個要用幾個鐘時間喎...
至於默書,都係用10分鐘內時間溫下習,亦有家長唔使同小朋友溫書,都有100分喎..
用幾個鐘頭溫書??小學定中學生呀...

owenmami 寫道:
Sindy,

可否講o下係邊間?
我囝囝o個間出名谷，都可以於一個鐘內完成每天的功課。
[quote]
Sindy 寫道:
除非天資好好既小朋友,否則幼稚園都用個幾鐘頭做功課,又用個幾鐘頭溫書/默書......咁佢地要訓下教....咁成日大部份時間都去左,又有乜時間用黎培養創意空間呢....呢類遊戲,都幾side時間架...我女佢地,玩下角色扮演,又成粒幾鐘,拎張紙自由畫下,又成粒鐘,又有時間比佢觀察下身邊環境兼拆下野,都要粒幾鐘......傳統教學都不合時宜架啦....唔係既話...都唔會有咁多傳統名校幼稚園轉做活動教學啦.......

[quote]
ArgusMum 寫道:
其實就咁睇呢到大家既意見...就知活動教學同吹谷型幼稚園都各有支持者.
但我覺得為何有家長硬是覺得比小朋友讀吹谷型幼稚園,要默書,要寫字,就係扼殺左小朋友既創意同愉快童年??就算而家我小朋友係讀緊呢類幼稚園,都唔會講人地讀緊活動教學幼稚園既小朋友學唔到野...上小學又辛苦等等啦...........
大家都為人父母,唔通真係會為左死谷爛谷個小朋友就睇住佢地辛苦,睇住佢地日日喊住做功課咩??揀得傳統幼稚園,係因為覺得自己小朋友受得呢套,返學又見佢開心先比佢讀落去姐....有咩問題?
總之,只有做父母既先會明白自己仔女適合讀咩類型幼稚園.
而兩類幼稚園也各有好處...無話一面好晒既..

[/quote][/quote]