沙田培僑書院

charliemom

universe_star,

請問你兒在培橋就讀的情形怎樣？我女兒現讀P5,所以我想搜集一些直資學校的資料,培橋也是我心水之一。例如師資、課程怎樣？中文科是普通話作教學語言嗎？那麼中、英文都是由native speaker任教嗎？下午的活動課如何？問題多多,很請賜教。謝謝。

Anka

既然沒有事實根據, 佢都是想當年.

universe_star 寫道:
大家好,
小兒是培僑書院的G.7學生。由開學到現在差不多四個月了，除了在十月有國慶活動外，不曾有灌輸任何傾左的言論或其他有關活動。什麼"規定全校學生作文支持政改方案"、"發動學生去停機坪歡迎中央領導人"從未聽聞，向小兒查問亦沒有此事。就連早前兩位太空人訪港在大球場的活動，學校亦只有分配了少量門票--跟別的學校沒有兩樣。  在我而言真的感受不到校方有傾左或硬向學生灌輸有關左派的意識 。

ZZPAPA

I agree with you.  Just "look back" and won't see  other's improvement is a failure.  It is encouraging that education gradually popular in China and I hope it can be more and more prosperous in the future.  
I think we should comment about the mission and achievement of schools in this forum.  Just saying something without evidence is too bad and subjective.





  

uncleedward

I certainly agree with AaronMummy that these schools have changed. They have changed from being the underprivileged to being the privileged. Arthur Li attended Hon Wah's anniversary celebration the other day. Could you imagine this 10 years ago. Look at the hardware 沙田培僑書院 is going to have. These schools apparently have access to recources which in the past were only enjoyed by schools like St Paul's Coed or DB/GS.

I have recommended two band 3 students to apply to Pu Kiu at North Point over the last 2 years after they failed to get into the secondary section of their own school. Both got accepted.

However, I have certain reservation whether the school is able to give a truly liberal education to the students. What if the student feels like to criticize HK government, the Chinese Government, Mao or the existing Chinese leaders? To courage students to have an independent mind and a healthy skepticism on establishments is an important part of a good education to me.

When I see the posts in this site on Pui Kiu, I sort of see some 搭棚 going on.. I wish they were just some over-zealous parents, but interestingly some of them almost only spoke only on threads related to Pui Kiu and they wrote better English than average parents on DB/GS threads. I could't help remembering (coincidentally also a Pui Kiu graduate and a former-teacher there)程介南's advice to the government a couple years ago as revealed in his scandal that the government should organize regular callers to the phone-in programs on the radio to promote/defend the movement policy.

I wish I was wrong.

Maybe we can interpret this a reflection of the keenness of the competition among the new DSS in attracting good students. I had a lengthy discussion with the headmistress of a traditional elite school the other day. She told me except for very few DSS (mainly those converted from traditional elite schools), most DSS have problems in attracting top students whose parents, except those as insightful as MOF who is already more than 100% certain HKUGA will become THE school, regard the new DSS as fall-back choices. Another reason is financial reason. Maybe BK parents are willing to pay the tuition fee which in most cases is around $30,000 a year, but the BK parents are a biased sample of HK parents as a whole. In view of over 60% of our population living in public housing estates and a significant number living in worse conditions, we are excluding a lot of bright kids here.

The birth rate has been decreasing drastically, moreover, no one has said the teaching language policy won't apply to DSS when the first 5-year honey moon period is over. I am not optimistic about the future of most new DSS(but Pui Kiu would be an exception with the resouces it commands). It is mainly  those DSS converted from traditional elite schools which will benefit from the new system. It is for this reason I dislike the DSS policy. It is only an evil version of elitism reborn.

ZZPAPA

We are simple parents, please not to complicate things by adding too much imaginations and unnecessary interpretation.

I will stop my conversation in this topic.  You know "simple is beautiful".  Let's others share their experience.

piggybank

但係反而亞uncleedward好似好pro咁喎....
我都係向只係有興趣參與培僑的討論,
因亞囡收左入培僑,
咁....係咪為免被人誤會, 都係收口.....
言論自由去左邊.......

deniset

I agree with ZZPAPA.  Uncleedward should open a new topic to discuss about those "new" schools under the DS system if he wishes.  Nothing is definite in life. 10 years can make things turn around a couple of times. Uncleedward, how was your perception on Piu Kiu 10 years ago? By the same token, how could you predict the future of these new DS schools? Everything has a beginning.Parents are smart enough to decide what they believe to be the best and most beneficial for their children. If they happen to choose a "new" DS school (not the ones that turned themselves from the traditional elite schools, according to your definition) for their kids, they will have all the patience, understanding as well as forgiveness to allow at least the first few years for the school to reach its first developmental stage. Never underestimate these new DS schools. They have all the resources, professionalism, visions and determination to develop themselves into some world-class academies. Only time can tell how successful they will become.

uncleedward

Life is uncertain but there are still things you can predict with certainty.

10 years ago, I could already tell schools like Pui Kiu and Heung To will no longer be underdogs in the education sector. They would have support from almost everyone under the new government.

10 years from now, I can tell for certain that Pui Kiu and Heung To will still be around, and they will enjoy an even better position in the education sector. And Pui Kiu will probably become one of the flagship schools in Hong Kong. One would be absolutely silly to underestimate the determination and resources to make this happening. We should never forget Pui Kiu was already doing OK without any support from HK Government in the pre-1997 era. With F1 intakes from outside mainly from band 3 they were able to produce decent HKCE result comparable to some EMIs. The future is definitely rosy for the school and its students. If I had been negative about the schools, I would not have recommended two girls to apply to the school. In fact I had to persuade the parents not to think too much of the school’s political background.

But 10 years from now, Pui Kiu shall still be a 愛國學校。A 愛國學校 is a 愛國學校。It will never change. Don't be simple and naïve about 愛國人士(or the Chinese government). A 愛國學校 is supposed to train up the future leaders in our community FOR China and 思想教育 is necessary and inevitable. The current obscurity of political element at Pui Kiu College is natural and planned. This is a typical 統一戰綫 tactic. If the school is too political now, how can it attract enough target students? However, when the school can attract students like St Paul Coed, it has to carry out its mission to train up 社會主義中國的未來主人翁 or it will fail the expectation of the 愛國人士 and the Chinese government. Pu Kiu will become a “北大附中” or “清華附中” but what I am after is a little bit extra for my daughters – how to think critically and independently without restrictions from whoever, including me.

I was not the first to say that seemingly there are some over-zealous parents of Pu Kiu here. Why did we have such impression? And piggybank, I was not aware that you spoke predominantly on Pu Kiu. I did not have you on mind when I said those words.

Finally, ZZPAPA and piggybank, I was surprised by your decision in future to stop writing on Pui Kiu. I don't think my words carried such weight and I hope you were not serious. If I was wrong, point it to me and tell me why I was wrong, unless you consider it as pointless as I felt against MOF.

uncleedward

To quote some experienced BK parents' words on topics related to Pu Kiu:

"這裡是大家交流心得的地方, 鍾意就一起傾下share下, 大家只係將手頭上law到的料post上來一起分析一起參考, 絕談不上你說的: "那些做表的人真的不要這樣影響別人的思想了"那麼嚴重吧. 再講, 曾看見閣下常常勁推舉大圍某某直資中學, 難道那又不是正想"影響別人的思想了。"嗎????????”” – by Cammy

"一間學校好唔好，唔係某一位家長狂sell間學校就叫好！
我想講好耐。” – by Dabbycheung

"原來有咁多會員留意到AaronMummy幾咁出力呀.老實講本來對呢間直資既感覺都唔錯,反而俾佢咁催谷後,唔係咁鍾意喇.” – by yammyma

"你講得好啱呀,太過吹噓真係會物極必反.

本人曾經喺第二個topic同各會員討論另一間直資中學,有會員同意我對該校既觀感,AaronMummy就暗示我地係媒,真係令人氣結,如果有相同感受係媒,咁佢直情係培僑既校董,咁大力推銷.” – by yammyma

Besides, there was an interesting one-sentence post under a similar thread “恭賀培僑書院羅慶琮校長，擔任新一屆直資學校議會主席，為期兩年”. This was only the only post from that new BK user. It is awkward to say the least.

While I commented on the high standard of the English writing on Pui Kiu thread, I just found a Chinese post which surprised me totally with its perfect Chinese (down to the use of punctuation marks). It was definitely better than the Chinese writing of all my previous corporate communication managers (but I must add those Marymount and .St Paul's girls only read English Literature at university) I am really surprised by the seemingly high standard of Pui Kiu parents.

Heidibaba

[quote]
uncleedward 寫道:

Life is uncertain but there are still things you can predict with certainty.

10 years ago, I could already tell schools like Pui Kiu and Heung To will no longer be underdogs in the education sector. They would have support from almost everyone under the new government.

10 years from now, I can tell for certain that Pui Kiu and Heung To will still be around, and they will enjoy an even better position in the education sector. And Pui Kiu will probably become one of the flagship schools in Hong Kong. One would be absolutely silly to underestimate the determination and resources to make this happening. We should never forget Pui Kiu was already doing OK without any support from HK Government in the pre-1997 era. With F1 intakes from outside mainly from band 3 they were able to produce decent HKCE result comparable to some EMIs. The future is definitely rosy for the school and its students. If I had been negative about the schools, I would not have recommended two girls to apply to the school. In fact I had to persuade the parents not to think too much of the school’s political background.

But 10 years from now, Pui Kiu shall still be a 愛國學校。A 愛國學校 is a 愛國學校。It will never change. Don't be simple and naïve about 愛國人士(or the Chinese government). A 愛國學校 is supposed to train up the future leaders in our community FOR China and 思想教育 is necessary and inevitable. The current obscurity of political element at Pui Kiu College is natural and planned. This is a typical 統一戰

uncleedward

Heidibaba

The answer is simple and perfectly logical. For a band 3 student, Pui Kiu is a perfect compromised choice. Arduous teachers, cozy school life and ideal  study atmosphere, 樸素校風, above average HKCE result, it is a much undervalued school because of its political association. For a band 3 student, it is probably the best choice available. I am a practical person. The political association is only a flaw but not a critical one. And it can be ratified by exposing students to the other side of the coin through reading.

We no longer live in an isolated world; there are many channels to get in touch of alternative theories and schools of thinking. The 思想教育 part is an annoying inconvenience only. 陶傑 was also a Pui Kiu graduate but he is one of the most anti-communist characters in the media in Hong Kong. Sometimes, 思想教育 just backfires.

For a parent of a band 3 student, choosing Pui Kiu can be a 為我所用 tactic, using the communist language.

AaronMummy

If it's getting political, then I stop saying anything. I really don't want to be guided to discuss something other than education. I am a parent of Pui Kiu, I never hid my status and I posted so much is because some parents asked for my opinion before and therefore I post frequently here. I post what I see and feel and it is good to speak up and say something good about it. I also posted many other messages but they are not noticing, perhaps it is a typical example of HK people...just like those tabloid focusing on a very small part of an issue and whirl up thousands of miles of over exaggerated topics.  Just focusing on what they want to attack. I think we should respect a freedom of speech and positive discussion atmosphere instead of always pointing at someone and using that as a target for the pleasure of the eyes. You have your views on an issue and I have a view on it. I support and you don't doesn't mean we are right or worng or whatever. We have the same status. So please respect. Anyway, I also respect someone's point of view but I won't reply anymore. I like someone said "simple is good" stuff.

I will stop posting messages in this topic, it seems that some people are guiding others to think of other things using a quotation mark to quoation a few words as "evidence" just like those tabloids. I can also quote their lines and say they are attacking the school and it would be valid too, but I don't do that. We are talking about our children's education. Anyways, ciao.

deniset

AaronMummy,
You got a point here. Besides, I was wondering why someone would want to make comments on the English and Chinese standards of the BK parents under this thread? Would it matter if we have been writing in good Chinese or poor English? Would that reveal something? This is only a discussion forum, please. I don't think it is appropriate or respectful to either comment or to compliment anyone on how good or poor his English/Chinese is. I'm sorry to find out there's another BK member whose ego is high as that of MOF, who thinks the rest of us are just "lesser mortals" waiting to be criticized. What is he trying to demonstrate?

uncleedward

I was not commenting their Chinese or English per se. I was only using this to explain why, among  other things, I had the feeing that some 搭棚 is going on for such topics. Interested parents can go back to many previous threads on Pui Kiu and check the previous posts of certain new users (thanks to BK’s handy features). They cannot be just explained by statistical coincidence.

To me, they can be seen as some organized advertising for the school. But, it apparently somehow backfired as reflected by quotes I copied from just one thread. AaronMummy said they are not evidence. On the contrary I do think they are evidence. They are evidence of how some other parents felt.

To continue to speak or not, this is one's personal liberty, just like the liberty deniset took to compare me to MOF. I do hope I have the stamina of her.

After my posts, three parents have decided to stop writing on Pui Kiu. I did not know I possess such powers. My MOF ego (which was already very high according to deniset) is now even higher.     

piggybank

uncleedward,

點都好啦! 其實如果話有人在BK特別為某校講說話,
其實你咪都係特別針對某些學校黎說話,
網上發言大家都有自由發表自己的諗法,
不過發表完之後, 別人對你的觀感如何,
則係見仁見智.
至於是否有三人因為你的言論決定不再參與討論,
如果包括我在內, 我諗你可以減番一個人,
因為我只係話""係咪"要收口",
係質疑閣下起度發言的目的,
咪就係想人收口LOR!

我個人認為aarormummy係好鬼hardsell,
無論佢如你所說係賣廣告又好,
係家長又好,
我都唔覺得佢除左HARDSELL外有乜問題.
但反觀你閣下,
似乎對教育界的情況都好了解,
但卻利用自己的似乎係好有料而實際上唔知有幾真的資料,
加埋個人推測,
黎不斷攻擊人,
對你來說有乜野好處呢?
做埋D損人不利己既野.
我個人只係覺得你係好"X"

我地幫D仔女搵學校,
都係想搵到一間教育方針合乎理想的學校,
比自己的子女成長.
難得搵到一間,
都仲未正式入讀,
聽到閣下的危言聳聽,
真係會好"慶"!
但到今天為止,
從各項客觀條件(包括辦學團體的往績,校舍,師資,課程及學校實際運作),
我同埋另外幾位家長都投下信心的一票.
一句到尾, 如果間學校係有問題,
家長會作出明智的決擇.
你再枉作小人,
都只係會令人覺得你好"X"






P.S.    X = 狗

Heidibaba

I really feel terrible with your personal character.  You recommend a school to other parents, and you hide something which you trust is not good to the development to the children (simply because they are band 3?).  Are you thinking that these children are inferior so that you will let them to be a white mouse?  

You "believe" that Pui Kiu will have 思想教育 but you cannot prove it.  I also checked that Pui Kiu College is a new school which opened for only 4 months.  I reviewed the comments from Pui Kiu College's parents in BK (even though Aaron Mummy is quite hardsell the school), none of them said that political education has been implemented in the school.

You are not parents of Pui Kiu College and you said that you are a practical person but all your messages are based on your personal opinion without evidence.  

You also said that 陶傑 was also a Pui Kiu graduate but he is one of the most anti-communist characters in the media in Hong Kong.  Did you know 陶傑 personally so that he told you that his anti-communist is developed during his school life?

You said you are using the communist language "為我所用", what you act is exactly a communist but you want to 美化 your action and put the responsibity to the band 3 student.  As a responsible person, why didn't you recommend a school that you completely believe it is good. It seems that you are familiar with the education system and you should able to make more recommendations.  Did you tell the parents of the two daughters that Pui Kiu will have 思想教育?  I don't think so because the parents had already expressed their political concern but you had "persuaded" them not to worry.  And now, you can sign up in BK and said that Pui Kiu must have 思想教育 and tell other moms about your concern of the political education in Pui Kiu.  The good thing is that those two parents will never know that what you think no good of the school is exactly the same reason as they concern (don't remember that they had already consulted you).  What a good guy you are!  

Anka

你們不要為了佢一個人的幻想而不開心.

據我所見所聞, 以培僑小學為例, 只有公民教育, 這都是根據教育統籌局的課程指引, 並沒有什麼"思想教育".

佢既言論都是沒有事實根據的, 只是佢既幻想, 佢是否想抹黑培僑和誤導別人呢?
佢既言論只有點起更多的火頭.

Pulmma

我的寶貝在pkc 讀書.

這是一所最好不過的學校.

至於其他不是學校當中的學生和家長的人去用自己主觀的幻想去作出沒有根據的評論, 或者可以當作隔壁的陳太說是非來看待罷了

中國人愛國有問題.

美國人愛國就說人家公民教育好!

究竟怎樣才冇問題????

uncleedward

I am very busy these couple of days but I promise I will answer the questions one by one. However, by training I am miserably incapable of dealing with smears (that's why I chose to ignore MOF). therefore, I am not prepared to answer the attacks from piggybank and deniset. Sorry.


First, let me deal with the question from Pulmma. 愛國 is a concept which has been debated fiercely by many people before and I don't think I need to repeat all of them here.


But 愛國教育carries its special meaning in Hong Kong history. This is a term coined by 親中人士 many decades ago to refer to the education at schools like Pui Kiiu or Heung To. We have to interpret the term in this context. We should not mix it up with 愛國教育 elsewhere. 愛國教育 does not just mean we have to love our country, our people and our government, but also to listen to, or to align our thinkingand acts with whatever said by our government or its leaders/officials. This concept is an obsolete one in western country. In a developed country, unless in wartime, any citizen has a natural right to criticize its government or its leaders. Does our 愛國教育 here spell out we have such right or are we educated to at least keep our mouth shut  if our thinking and our opinions are not in line with that of Chinese government or Hong Kong government? How are we dealing with the concept that Chinese Communist Party and its leaders (when they are in power) are always 偉大、正確?

I consider myself patriotic. It's was right after June 4 in 1989, lying in the hospital bed in London, that I decided my future career development would be in China. I had the belief that China would become stronger and stronger and I wanted to be part of it. I moved back to Hong Kong and since then my career has been all China-related. I have been enthusiastic all the time about the development in China. However, I cannot accept the idea that Chinese government, Chinese Communist Party, Chinese leader should be treated by us in any way different from their counterparts in other developed countries.

Talking about 'simple', I am still a simple believer in personal liberty as advocated by J S Mill in his little book “On Liberty”.

羅慶琮 has expressely mentioned Pui Kiu will promote 深層的愛國教育. He is also the principal of Pui Kiu at North Point. Both schools’ 校董會主席 is 吳康民 and 校監 is 曾鈺成. The priests' job in a Christian church is to spread the gospel. Don't you think it is 吳 and 曾's job to CONTINUE to spread such "gospel"?

But as I said, Pui Kiu is a good school. I have said a lot of good points about the school. It is just not a perfect school. To me it is just not a "一所最好不過的學校".