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教育王國 討論區 國際學校 ESF schools Futher $$$$
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ESF schools Futher $$$$   [複製鏈接]

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281
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發表於 12-10-15 08:46 |只看該作者 |倒序瀏覽 |打印


ESF schools

【明報專訊】THE ENGLISH SCHOOLS FOUNDATION (ESF) has revealed its talks with the government may take a favourable turn. It is optimistic that its funding (which has been frozen at $280 million a year for twelve years) will go up to $400 million a year and expects that to be finalised by September next year.

ESF schools are reluctant to join the Direct Subsidy Scheme. In fact, if they do so, they will have to operate under the local school system and, as a result, lose much of their competitive advantage. Nor would they position themselves as international schools. They want to charge tuition that is on a par with international schools', get funding from the government and remain outside Hong Kong's school system. The ESF's turf is like a "concession territory" in Hong Kong's education system. Not only does it enjoy "extraterritoriality", but the government also spends public money to maintain its "extraterritoriality". That, one may say, is absolutely absurd. Last year the government said the ESF question was one "inherited from history" and suggested it was necessary to define the ESF's positioning and see that its schools would gradually become responsible for their own profits and losses without detriment to their performance. The ESF, which enjoys privileges, is an anomaly. Its existence is quite at odds with the principle of fairness. This ought to be changed. The previous administration moved in the right direction when it said it was its aim to solve the problem once and for all by having ESF schools assume sole responsibility for their own profits and losses.

Since some years ago, the ESF, unable to come to terms with the government, has found new ways to increase its incomes. ESF schools have not only raised their tuition but also charged their students "construction" and "maintenance" fees. Such a charge may easily amount to several ten thousand dollars. Though its reserves stand at $900 million, it is vigorously raising funds (allegedly for rebuilding its schools). It is thus quite clear that ESF schools do not operate differently from international schools. Like them, they charge ultra-high tuition and miscellaneous charges and use "financial techniques" to raise funds. The way they operate smacks strongly of commercialisms. It would aggravate the unfairness for the government to continue to provide the ESF with funding.

In fact, though ESF parents have to pay high tuition and many miscellaneous fees, people are no less desirous of sending their children to ESF schools. Their places are hard to come by. This shows the ESF has such a reputation and is in such a position that it should turn its schools into private institutions rather than go to extraordinary lengths to obtain government funding.

The government should take such steps that ESF schools will eventually become private entities (which are responsible for their own profits and losses). Specifically, it should assure ESF students it will subsidise their primary and secondary schooling and make it a rule that "money should follow students" so that their subsidisation will continue even if they go to other schools. One may say the government has taken into account both history and reality if it pursues such a policy, which may help soften ESF parents' antagonism. Subsidising the schooling of those who now attend ESF schools means the ESF may adapt itself to changes in a thirteen-year transition period. We believe this is the best way to deal with the ESF question. The government would be well advised to consider adopting it.

明報社評2012.10.12﹕英基學校應自負盈虧 政府資助應逐步撤銷

英基校方透露與政府的磋商有轉機。校方對凍結了12年的每年2.8億元資助額能夠增加至4億元,取態樂觀,並期望明年8月底前定案云云。

英基不願意改為直資。事實上,若英基改為直資,意味回歸本地學制,優勢大減;而英基也不願定位為國際學校,它只肯收取等同國際學校的學費,接受政府資助,而又獨立於本港學制以外。英基恍似香港教育制度的「租界」,不僅擁有「治外法權」,政府還以公帑維繫這個治外法權,可謂十分荒誕。去年,政府認為「英基是歷史遺留下來的問題」,要釐清定位,提出在不影響英基的教學質素下,逐步過渡至自負盈虧。英基的畸形存在等於享有特權,從根本上偏離了公平原則,有必要改變,上一屆政府提出要英基自負盈虧的目標,以徹底解決這個問題,是正確的方向。

多年來,英基與政府談不攏的情下,在財政收入方面已經另闢蹊徑,除了加學費,也向學生徵收建校費、保養費等費用,動輒數萬元。英基現有9億元儲備,仍然積極籌集資金,據稱是為準備重建學校。從這些情看來,英基的營運模式與其他國際學校並無分別,都是以高昂學費和附帶收費以至「財技」集資等操作,商業意味濃烈,若政府繼續給予資助,不公平情將更嚴重。

其實,即使英基學費昂貴,加上要家長繳付其他費用,仍然無礙家長熱忱,學額難求,反映以英基的校譽和條件,應該轉型為私校,勿再千方百計尋求政府資助了。

政府應該採取措施,逐步使英基轉型為自負盈虧的私校。具體做法是政府向已入讀英基的學生保證,繼續資助他們直至中學畢業,並訂定「錢跟學生走」的原則,就算學生轉讀其他學校,資助仍然持續。這樣做,可以顧及歷史與現實,紓解英基家長的反對情緒,而繼續資助現有學生,意味英基有13年過渡期適應轉變。我們認為這是解決英基這個歷史遺留下來問題的最好方法,值得政府考慮。

http://news.mingpao.com/20121015/ema1.htm


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9569
2#
發表於 12-10-15 09:37 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-10-15 09:41 編輯

When ESF get subvention from the government some people say that is unfair and ESF should be solely responsible for their profits and losses like other international schools.

Alright, so ESF tries to raise money by issuing nomination rights at $500,000 a shot, just like other international schools selling debentures, and some people say that is unfair to those who can't pay.

Its about time Hongkongers get to grips with reality.

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201
3#
發表於 12-10-15 12:44 |只看該作者

回覆:ESF schools Futher $$$$

In my humble opinion, if ESF can get $400 million from the government, it should slightly change it's admission policy.  There are lots of expatriates' children in their schools and the school fees are pay by their companies. If the admission priorities to those children who are born in HK and English is their first language. Then it will little a bit fair to the HK tax payer. Their are lots of International schools in HK, their companies are able to pay a higher wages for their employees from overseas, they can pay a higher school fee!



點評

WYmom  Agree  發表於 12-10-15 16:23

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9569
4#
發表於 12-10-15 14:01 |只看該作者
田心 發表於 12-10-15 12:44
There are lots of expatriates' children in their schools and the school fees are pay by their companies. ...
Have you ever known anyone studying in an ESF school be it kindergarten or primary or secondary? Have you ever been outside of an ESF school and observed the student population? If you have, then you would know the majority of the students studying in ESF schools are ethnic Chinese, most of them are from local Hongkong families paying fees out of their own pockets, company sponsored ex-pat students are really the exception and not the norm.

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299
5#
發表於 12-10-15 14:38 |只看該作者

回覆:polyu4537 的帖子

expat are tax payer in hk too.  I don't see any point they can't enjoy some benefit from hk government.  not all expat are rich and not all companies are willing to pay for housing and school fee.



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786
6#
發表於 12-10-15 15:46 |只看該作者
FattyDaddy 發表於 12-10-15 09:37
When ESF get subvention from the government some people say that is unfair and ESF should be solely  ...

The problem is now they are having the cake and eating it too. They haven't given up government funding and they start charging the $500,000 already. If they fully give up government funding, and rely exclusively on debenture, I don't think people would have a problem with them.

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4747
7#
發表於 12-10-15 16:12 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 WYmom 於 12-10-15 16:13 編輯

Hope that the increase in govt subvention can slow down the high increase of school fees every year since 2005.  The fee of secondary school is already $100,000 per year now.  Besides, it is good news if they really build more new schools in NT to cope with the increase demand in NT West and North.

Below news quoted from "The Standard":

Most of the students have parents who are permanent residents and taxpayers.

There is a shortage of ESF places. About 6,500 students are on the waiting lists of the five secondary and nine primary schools.

This year, about 2,400 applicants competed for about 1,000 Secondary One places.

Tong also said the ESF hopes to build more schools in the New Territories.


ESF chief executive Heather Du Quesnay said rents in Hong Kong are high and the group is reluctant to keep on increasing fees. Consequently, it hopes to build new schools in the New Territories.

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9569
8#
發表於 12-10-15 16:23 |只看該作者
md23 發表於 12-10-15 15:46
The problem is now they are having the cake and eating it too. They haven't given up government fun ...
Lets look at the fees charged by ESF schools and compare that to what the other international schools are charging, taking just a few popular ones as examples:-

ESF Primary Schools (Primary 1 to 6) - HK$ 66,100
http://www.esf.edu.hk/our-schools/admissions-criteria/school-fees

ISF Primary School (Foundation Year to Grade 5) - HK$ 134,750
http://www.isf.edu.hk/en/admissions/fees-and-tuition/

Singapore International School (Primary Section) - HK$ 95,000
http://www.singapore.edu.hk/En/Pub/Fee.aspx?id=12

Chinese International School (Years 1-6) - HK$ 144,800
http://www.cis.edu.hk/tuition.asp?lang=e

Canadian International School (Prep to Grade 4) - HK$ 106,900
http://www.cdnis.edu.hk/admissions/20122013-tuition-fee-structure.html

Figures don't lie, ESF may have the cake (i.e. the subvention) but they share the eating with the stakeholders (i.e. the parents), how else could their fees be considerably lower, down to half of what some other international schools are charging.

The HK$ 500,000 Nomination Right Scheme was introduced because there were noises from certain people and the government was threatening to take the cake away, and ESF would rather sell rights to raise money than to significantly raise fees.

Now that the subvention is not only sustained but increased is a piece of GOOD NEWS to average Hongkongers, because through ESF their children have access to international school education at an affordable price.

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786
9#
發表於 12-10-15 17:10 |只看該作者
FattyDaddy 發表於 12-10-15 16:23
Lets look at the fees charged by ESF schools and compare that to what the other international school ...
Yes, but they do have government subsidy and just increased their fees. Only that the increase is born by a minority of students instead of all the students. Very good news for the ones who don't have to pay, i.e., those are are already enrolled, but very bad news for who will need to pay extra.
I got nothing against ESF, but they did increase their fee in my opinion.


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9569
10#
發表於 12-10-15 17:30 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-10-15 22:10 編輯
md23 發表於 12-10-15 17:10
Yes, but they do have government subsidy and just increased their fees. Only that the increase is bo ...

This is true, ESF increased their fees this year, by around 5%, but I guess we should look at the big picture. Even after the 5% increase it is HK$ 66,100 (ESF) compared to HK$134,750 (ISF), almost an exact double, I for one am glad that ESF's subvention is sustained and Hongkongers continue to have a cheaper option for international schools {:1_1:}

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10361
11#
發表於 12-10-15 18:03 |只看該作者
FattyDaddy 發表於 12-10-15 09:37
When ESF get subvention from the government some people say that is unfair and ESF should be solely  ...

當年香港回歸,esf  開始每年收大量本地學生,以往國際學校不是一般人可以負擔,因為 esf 學費較低,現在很多中產都可以負擔。
突然多了有得 "升 lev" 的機會,個個趨之若騖。好話唔好聽,個個屋苑都有人讀 esf。
esf 學費大眾化,其實好多人都計準條數,一早步署,諗住自己可以幫仔女 "升 lev" 。
本來條數都計到好盡,應該可以負擔 esf,而家一個屈尾十,又甚麼 nomination fees 又 capital levy,好多沒可能再 "加碼" 的人一定有怨言。
講真,我又唔明你 (地) 又咁得閒,真係慢慢解釋佢地聽,我就冇咁好氣喇。
香港人而家好多怨氣,成日覺得點解人地有某 d 著數,自己冇。
鮮 x 行學校經常得到善長捐助,都好多人唔抵得,自由講場個邊三兩日就有新 topic 鬧校長。

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1109
12#
發表於 12-10-15 18:06 |只看該作者
I think it is reasonable for HK govt to withdraw the subsidy to ESF, just like all the rest private school ( including Internationschool). If ESF want to get HK govt subsidy, they should turn themselves to  直資school and to be partially responsible to HK govt. Of course it will be subjected to HK govt' direction whether govt want to extend their 直資service to International school.  But  all in all ...... ESF is a bit too aggressive, the $ 400k nomination right is non-refundable. All the rest IS's nomination right will be refuned after student graduate.

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9569
13#
發表於 12-10-15 18:48 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-10-15 21:25 編輯
nintendo 發表於 12-10-15 18:03
講真,我又唔明你 (地) 又咁得閒,真係慢慢解釋佢地聽,我就冇咁好氣喇。
香港人而家好多怨氣,成日覺得點解人地有某 d 著數,自己冇。 ...

Certain misconceptions need to be addressed, such as the belief that ESF students are mostly rich ex-pat children getting a free lunch from Hongkong taxpayers, which is simply not true. Most ESF students are children of local Hongkong families entitled to as much subsidy as any other local Hongkong family.

As for 著數, surely, one will get the MOST jetso by attending local schools, that is where most of the money goes, I mean, 十五年免費教育, how could one get more jetso than that?

點評

acdad    發表於 12-10-17 20:53

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11699
14#
發表於 12-10-15 18:58 |只看該作者
I have no objection that the Government should subsidise each local student in the same amount of subsidy as Government grants to each student in the local school system. However, why should the tax payers have to fund (or subsidise) the students from overseas? It is not fair to the tax payers.

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299
15#
發表於 12-10-15 19:52 |只看該作者

回覆:Shootastar 的帖子

expats from overseas have to pay tax in hk too.  they are also tax payer in hk.  don't get it wrong, they may need.to pay even more than locals.  so why foreigners can't enjoy the benefit from hk government if they are part of the tax payer???



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19403
16#
發表於 12-10-15 20:07 |只看該作者
I have no objection to ESF continues to receive subsidy from government as long as ESF agrees to be under the same monitoring system like other DSS.

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201
17#
發表於 12-10-15 22:00 |只看該作者

回覆:ESF schools Futher $$$$

From what I know is in some countries if the parents are holding a working visa not yet a PR and the children are not citizens, even the children go to the local government school, they need to pay at overseas students rate.  Their parents are taxpayers but not citizen and PR.



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9569
18#
發表於 12-10-15 22:21 |只看該作者
polyu4537 發表於 12-10-15 08:46
【明報專訊】... It is thus quite clear that ESF schools do not operate differently from international schools. Like them, they charge ultra-high tuition ...
I must admit I found this newspaper article so full of BS that I stopped reading halfway, but now that I'm at leisure I've read it again and look what I've found, this is UTTER NONSENSE !!!

ESF charging "ultra-high" tuition like other international schools? Just what is this propaganda rag MingPao trying to pull? and to think there are blockheads who actually believe what they print.

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299
19#
發表於 12-10-15 22:25 |只看該作者

回覆:田心 的帖子

are u talking about higher education or compulsory education.  As far as I know, all major countries like USA, UK, Japan, Canada etc, all resident who has valid visa can enjoy free compulsory education in public school.  so which countries are u referring to?  of course if talking about higher education like university, master etc, then the answer is Yes in public university but private one, the fee is the same.   Honestly, why expat kids are unable to study in public school in HK??  It's all about language issue.  I know some foreign children are studying in DSS but they were all born here and studied in local kinder, otherwise, children are unable to fit in local primaries.



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201
20#
發表於 12-10-15 23:01 |只看該作者

回覆:ESF schools Futher $$$$

In Australia NSW state.



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