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Rank: 6Rank: 6


8550
41#
發表於 15-11-5 11:45 |只看該作者
其實如果喺有意思,我真心agree, 但可唔可以回得有point啲啲!!攞唔出理據就屈人呢啲人為反而反呀,講佢地唔明㗎啦呢啲冇意思的comment呢?

Rank: 3Rank: 3


243
42#
發表於 15-11-5 11:51 |只看該作者
Doray 發表於 15-11-5 11:38
你啲logic 又嚟啦,如果做到1 to 7, 咁仲點解要第8呢,到時呢班人的理據何在呢? ...

又泥 ?!

pt 1 係立即取消小三 TSA

都用客觀推論問題不在 TSA, 係学校要跑業績滿足家長

無左小三 TSA 可以操其他提升業績嘅嘢, 明未?

家長選校, 百分之九十睇升中成績... 你有心攪學校, 好自然操去提升自己升中成績 !

有求就有供!

反之, 如百分之九十家長選校要 happy school, 愈 happy 愈好, 學校就會變 happy school , 個個標榜自己幾 happy

就係咁簡單

點評

siden    發表於 15-11-5 12:50
oho1  support !  發表於 15-11-5 12:36


3505
43#
發表於 15-11-5 11:53 |只看該作者

回覆:取消TSA

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除 內容自動屏蔽

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7


11670
44#
發表於 15-11-5 11:57 |只看該作者
CY0212 發表於 15-11-5 11:51
又泥 ?!

pt 1 係立即取消小三 TSA
totally agree

Rank: 4


932
45#
發表於 15-11-5 11:58 |只看該作者
Doray 發表於 15-11-5 11:38
你啲logic 又嚟啦,如果做到1 to 7, 咁仲點解要第8呢,到時呢班人的理據何在呢?  
Your Point 2 to 8 might be your claim...it's ok !

But without any substantive review / discussion by the Authority or the Public... Point no. 1 (i.e. turn down the TSA immediately) must be a wrong decision !

Every System should has rooms for imporvement !  That's no "erfect sytem" in the world !

We can't turn down any system becasue of it's so-called imprefection claimed by anyone unless it will endanger your "life" !?

If TSA endanger your kids or your life immediately ?  

點評

Doray  They ARE asking for review and discussion!!!  發表於 15-11-5 12:20

Rank: 6Rank: 6


8550
46#
發表於 15-11-5 12:06 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 Doray 於 15-11-5 12:39 編輯

回覆 CY0212 的帖子

其實呢你Raise 呢個Question 以经喺之前隔離嗰post 講過哂 點解要cancel 小三TSA(pls see post 85, 88,,108, 152, 164, 231,265 ,詳情自已睇,that's why I support the cancellation of P3 TSA.
"Extracted from essay written by an ex-teacher in 2011"
教統局進行「基本能力評估」的原意是提供資料讓學生改進學習,也讓教師檢討和改善教學。願境是美好的,事實卻是學生自小一開始便要為TSA而操練,中英文教科書也是遷就TSA的考評內容而編寫。既然考評局亦指出TSA只代表課程的部份要求,那麼如果學校偏重TSA的操練,也就是說我們孩子的學習空間就被大大扼殺了

就算TSA的本意是美好的,我還想多了解教統局認為的「基本能力」是怎樣測試的。自己曾是英語老師,較詳細地翻閱小三歷年的英文TSA閱讀及寫作試卷,赫然發現四年來考試時間雖然沒增加過(25分鐘),但考卷確實是愈來愈長,愈來愈深。先看看學生要閱讀的字數 — 2006年的閱讀卷字數是750字,而2011年的有約1050字,增加了40%!看來,這是速讀 (speed reading) 的評核遠多過是「基本能力」的評核。又莫非考評局認為我們的三年級孩子這四年來真的聰明伶俐了那麼多?

比對一下考卷內容也發現2010年的考卷明顯地艱深了很多。2006年的考卷其中一個部份的閱讀資料是一本書的書面和目錄。學生所要閱讀的資料非常直接簡單,如目錄就是只有6個章節的標題和頁數。但在2010年考卷的目錄就加添了章節內的小節標題,目錄不再只是6行,而是17行。孩子答每一條題目都要分析、理解、篩選更多的資料才能作出最適當的選擇。考卷亦包括篇幅較長的文章,以檢測學生的閱讀能力。2006年有一封朋友寄來的信,約300字。8條選擇題中的答案有5條是用圖畫作選擇提示的。2010年則有兩篇長文章,一封老師給學生的信和一篇日記,每篇約150字。14條問題中只有3條的答案選擇是以圖畫作提示,其餘11題都是全文字提示。考卷既然長了又深了,即是說,教統局認為小三學生的英語詞彙及理解能力是在不斷提升吧!但這真的是事實嗎?負責出卷的考評局官員對於一般香港小三學生的英語能力掌握得有多清楚?他們有沒有「下鄉」到學校試教過?他們有沒有聽取過老師們的意見?


另外,香港小學教育領導學會、津貼小學議會、香港初等教育研究學會、香港資助小學校長會及教育評議會亦於6-7月間,用問卷訪問了約一萬一千位小五、小六學生的家長,其中56%的家長認為應取消小六生的TSA。(http://paper.wenweipo.com) 那小三呢?小三,8歲而已,為甚麼這麼小就要經歷這些無謂的壓力?孩子還在天真爛漫地探索著世界的事物。初小,不是鼓勵和實行廣泛閱讀,奠定創意思維的最好時機嗎?就是一個TSA,就把整個學習領域壓縮得只像個皮球那麼小。小孩子面對一次又一次的操練,恐怕換來的只有對學習的抗拒與恐懼。我同意適量的壓力是學習的推動力,但過量就物極必反。"

Do you think there's no impact on all the P1-3 students, no matter you can or cannot cope with the exam with our without drilling??  I have quoted an example before, do you think the teachers will spend same amount of time to make sure all kids know the format of writing the invitation cards in Chinese if the TSA won't test this.  Or do you think your kids require to write up thousands of invitation cards when they grow up?





Rank: 4


932
47#
發表於 15-11-5 12:36 |只看該作者
CY0212 發表於 15-11-5 11:51
又泥 ?!

pt 1 係立即取消小三 TSA

Sharp comment !  

我相信...有"怪獸家長"才要求"怪獸式生活及學習環境"!

有"怪獸式生活及學習環境"才造就"怪獸學校"!

有"怪獸學校"才培育"新一代的怪獸"!

有"一大群怪獸",排除異已才建立"怪獸制度及社會"!

有"怪獸制度及社會" 最後成立"怪獸國" 進而侵略他國.....!

怪獸能指責其他怪獸為何要建立"怪獸制度及社會"嗎?  冇怪獸的要求..慢慢地就自然冇怪獸的市場吧!

改變是必需的! 但該由自身(思想、動機、心態、行為等)開始。

想改變成功, 請先放棄自已的怪獸心、怪獸皮step by step to change the system!  

希望我不會絕種吧!   

Rank: 14Rank: 14Rank: 14Rank: 14


120293
48#
發表於 15-11-5 12:57 |只看該作者
講埋呢次算了!

大家要求取消TSA原因係乜? 係咪為咗解決小朋友唔需要操練既問題?

又講多次個比喻:

你個仔俾阿sir 放學後留係班房補課做試卷, 做得唔好唔准走..... 個阿sir話係電話同你講: 我都唔想架, 校長話你個仔成績唔達標既話, 即係我教得唔好, 咁你個仔又真係唔係咁得, 我咪唯有幫佢加操, 谷行D囉.... 嗱, 一係你叫校長唔好用個仔既成績嚟考核我啦, 唔係我都只可以咁做架咋, 唔關我事呀!

作為父母, 去到學校, 第一件事你會做乜:
(1) 走去課室, 接番個仔走
(2) 走去校長室同佢理論, 叫佢攪番掂件事

邊個選擇先係即時幫到個仔?

如果係我, 必定係(1)+(2); 如果資源有限, 都一定係做(1)先


如果只著眼要求教育局取消TSA, 係咪係可以
解決小朋友唔需要操練既問題?
如果係, 先解決到?
未解決到前, 係咪由得D小朋友繼續俾人操?


還記得初為父母時,對孩子的期望嗎?我當時只想他/她平平安安,健健康康。
隨著時光飛逝,人的期望慢慢變了,變得越來越有要求。所以要經常提醒自己:毋忘初心
箴言4:23 - 你要保守你心,勝過保守一切,因為一生的果效是由心發出。
箴言22:6 - 教養孩童,使他走當行的道,就是到老他也不會偏離。

Rank: 4


932
49#
發表於 15-11-5 13:07 |只看該作者
Doray 發表於 15-11-5 12:06
回覆 CY0212 的帖子

其實呢你Raise 呢個Question 以经喺之前隔離嗰post 講過哂 點解要cancel 小三TSA(pls  ...

That's the fact that you can present to the Authority during the in-coming review!

Then turn down might be a solution after the review !

Rank: 6Rank: 6


8550
50#
發表於 15-11-5 13:09 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 Doray 於 15-11-5 13:15 編輯
hkpapa852 發表於 15-11-5 12:57
講埋呢次算了!

大家要求取消TSA原因係乜? 係咪為咗解決小朋友唔需要操練既問題?

You are so cute, do you have any new comments, I already replied you this post before:

但係如果你知道會/或以為會有後果,即是我小朋友會唔會成績差咗,印象分冇咗,操行分扣咗㗎,仲要俾其他家長岐視圍插,自已成績差就唔好賴地硬啦!

所以(1)同(2)都唔會做,所以你的方法係正路,但行唔通


One point I want to add, some parents might have heart to get in the PTA in order to influence the school, but more become the "club" for some monster parents.  Do you think "monster parents" or "relatively less monster parents" more?

點評

hkpapa852  Do I say I am asking for your feedback again?  發表於 15-11-5 13:12

Rank: 6Rank: 6


8550
51#
發表於 15-11-5 13:13 |只看該作者
There's still have some beauty of Hong Kong Education System and still have many passionate teachers.  We should at least not 潑冷水 though you don't want to show support to those want to make a little step to improve the current unhealthy situation.

Rank: 3Rank: 3


243
52#
發表於 15-11-5 13:26 |只看該作者
Doray 發表於 15-11-5 12:06
回覆 CY0212 的帖子

其實呢你Raise 呢個Question 以经喺之前隔離嗰post 講過哂 點解要cancel 小三TSA(pls  ...


我好懷疑你係未真係睇唔明道理係邊 (?!) , 你嘅文章犯左畿個根本錯誤


事實卻是學生自小一開始便要為TSA而操練,中英文教科書也是遷就TSA的考評內容而編寫。既然考評局亦指出TSA只代表課程的部份要求,那麼如果學校偏重TSA的操練,也就是說我們孩子的學習空間就被大大扼殺了

>> 已經用非常淺文解比你知, 求之下, 就算無左 TSA, 部份学校都會用相同時間操練其他有助提升評刻嘅嘢上面. 明未?

就正如学卷幼園, 家長覺得佢淺(因為局指示下), 變左好多有能力就脫離学卷制, 咁就可以深 d, 吸引家長!  
学卷家長亦主動加操. 因? 升小! 明未?



那小三呢?小三,8歲而已,為甚麼這麼小就要經歷這些無謂的壓力?孩子還在天真爛漫地探索著世界的事物。初小,不是鼓勵和實行廣泛閱讀,奠定創意思維的最好時機嗎?就是一個TSA,就把整個學習領域壓縮得只像個皮球那麼小。小孩子面對一次又一次的操練,恐怕換來的只有對學習的抗拒與恐懼。我同意適量的壓力是學習的推動力,但過量就物極必反。"

>> 問下家長學校唔操 (TSA or AST or no matter what name it is) , 或者問下学校唔操 (TSA or AST or no matter what name it is)升中改善唔到會收生競左.... 佢地肯唔肯?

百分之十即肯唔制啦! 梗係操!

之前鏗鏘集訪問地區一線小, 佢推減小功課政策, 小d...但中成就跌左小小, 家刻好大意見! 要多返功課!

明未? 實世界就係咁


Do you think there's no impact on all the P1-3 students, no matter you can or cannot cope with the exam with our without drilling??  I have quoted an example before, do you think the teachers will spend same amount of time to make sure all kids know the format of writing the invitation cards in Chinese if the TSA won't test this.  Or do you think your kids require to write up thousands of invitation cards when they grow up?

>> School is drive by parent demand, if majority parent demand is good result, school will direct teacher to execute... if there is TSA as tools, they use TSA... if there is no TSA, but is another tools call AST, TTSA, ASTTT... they will study it and ask teacher to execute

this is market, supply and demand

we should change the society , not the tools... tools A dead, tools B come, understand?

點評

Doray  Education should not solely operated under supply and demand!!  發表於 15-11-5 14:22
oho1  Crystal clear !  Totally agree !  Demand & supply that establish the market system !  發表於 15-11-5 13:40

Rank: 5Rank: 5


3698
53#
發表於 15-11-5 13:26 |只看該作者
Doray 發表於 15-11-5 13:13
There's still have some beauty of Hong Kong Education System and still have many passionate teachers ...
敢問你小朋友考咗TSA未?  

你自己point 1 已要求立即取消,咁你知唔知自己quote咗啲乜?


唔好開口埋口 "事實係……",你口中所謂既事實,過來人家長並唔覺得係。

點評

hkpapa852  佢係一位小朋友去咗一間不重視TSA既直資/私立學校而又想為民請命既家長  發表於 15-11-5 13:30

Rank: 4


932
54#
發表於 15-11-5 13:33 |只看該作者
hkpapa852 發表於 15-11-5 12:57
講埋呢次算了!

大家要求取消TSA原因係乜? 係咪為咗解決小朋友唔需要操練既問題?

如果間學校一早是谷校, 而我有意或冇意地安排子女入讀-->我會認命!忍及妥協!因路是自已選擇的!

如果子女入讀其間, 學校由happy school to 谷校-->我會(1) + (2) 同他反應!
compromised --> stay
uncompromised --> find another happy school !  the school has the choice and I also have the choice, too!

我相信百貨應百家! 選擇學校該看她的理念、方針、程度是否合適! 非選擇錯了就要求別人配合個人需要不可!

點評

hkpapa852  跟住就有人話, 間學校抽番嚟, 我都唔想嫁?!  發表於 15-11-5 13:35

Rank: 5Rank: 5


3698
55#
發表於 15-11-5 13:36 |只看該作者
SillyU 發表於 15-11-5 13:26
敢問你小朋友考咗TSA未?  

你自己point 1 已要求立即取消,咁你知唔知自己quote咗啲乜?
To: hkpapa852
即係人哋講,佢信晒? 咁no wonder

點評

hkpapa852  然後話: 內行人都話有問題, 咁解你唔信? 仲唔係為撐而撐?  發表於 15-11-5 13:38
hkpapa852  佢跟住就列出一堆: XX前教師, XX前教育局人員文章 嚟話TSA係幾咁有問題  發表於 15-11-5 13:37

Rank: 6Rank: 6


8550
56#
發表於 15-11-5 13:42 |只看該作者
我好懷疑你係未真係睇唔明道理係邊 (?!) , 你嘅文章犯左畿個根本錯誤


事實卻是學生自小一開始便要為TSA而操練,中英文教科書也是遷就TSA的考評內容而編寫。既然考評局亦指出TSA只代表課程的部份要求,那麼如果學校偏重TSA的操練,也就是說我們孩子的學習空間就被大大扼殺了

>> 已經用非常淺文解比你知, 求之下, 就算無左 TSA, 部份学校都會用相同時間操練其他有助提升評刻嘅嘢上面. 明未?

就正如学卷幼園, 家長覺得佢淺(因為局指示下), 變左好多有能力就脫離学卷制, 咁就可以深 d, 吸引家長!  
学卷家長亦主動加操. 因? 升小! 明未?

I try to answer u with simple English.  Don't mix many different topic
up re P1 admission, that's should be another topic.   

TSA is so called a low risk assessment to test the BASIC ability.  However, EDB has increase the difficulty of the test throughout the years, which had already been raised out by so many teachers, is one of the reason contributing to the drilling.  But the TSA result, which suppose not to tell the parents, would be used as a benchmark to compare across the schools where the Board of School will then exert pressure to the Headmaster.  That is the real cause for the school to drilling the test.  


那小三呢?小三,8歲而已,為甚麼這麼小就要經歷這些無謂的壓力?孩子還在天真爛漫地探索著世界的事物。初小,不是鼓勵和實行廣泛閱讀,奠定創意思維的最好時機嗎?就是一個TSA,就把整個學習領域壓縮得只像個皮球那麼小。小孩子面對一次又一次的操練,恐怕換來的只有對學習的抗拒與恐懼。我同意適量的壓力是學習的推動力,但過量就物極必反。"

>> 問下家長學校唔操 (TSA or AST or no matter what name it is) , 或者問下学校唔操 (TSA orAST or no matter what name it is)升中改善唔到會收生競左.... 佢地肯唔肯?

百分之十即肯唔制啦! 梗係操!

之前鏗鏘集訪問地區一線小, 佢推減小功課政策, 小d...但中成就跌左小小, 家刻好大意見! 要多返功課!

明未? 實世界就係咁
I told in other post before.  It is a matter of choice.  If you want to study in GH and cope with those drilling culture, no one will stop you.  But now, how can a P1 parent know if the school is really drilling or not drilling the TSA as you said, by changing the name of the supplementary exercise.  Also, I support to remove the TSA as the KPI which is the same rationale behind some schools  that remove the class  ranking for exam in order to tackle with those monster parents in some extent.  


Do you think there's no impact on all the P1-3 students, no matter you can or cannot cope with the exam with our without drilling??  I have quoted an example before, do you think the teachers will spend same amount of time to make sure all kids know the format of writing the invitation cards in Chinese if the TSA won't test this.  Or do you think your kids require to write up thousands of invitation cards when they grow up?

>> School is drive by parent demand, if majority parent demand is good result, school will direct teacher to execute... if there is TSA as tools, they use TSA... if there is no TSA, but is another tools call AST, TTSA, ASTTT... they will study it and ask teacher to execute

this is market, supply and demand

we should change the society , not the tools... tools A dead, tools B come, understand?

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243
57#
發表於 15-11-5 13:46 |只看該作者
oho1 發表於 15-11-5 13:33
如果間學校一早是谷校, 而我有意或冇意地安排子女入讀-->我會認命!忍及妥協!因路是自已選擇的!

如果子女 ...


真理愈辨愈明

whatsapp 家表群入面有家表 forward 叫人去教局 TSA 公聽會, 基本上無人有反應

但留意下 EK 一部份會員, or 一部份 media/人仕, 係好熱心叫人去 cut TSA... why?  The problem behind is really so simple?  they really don't know what's the problem behind?

你睇小一選校呢版, 好多家長因升小係花畿多心力去迎合面試!

你睇幼稚園版, 好多家長唔要 happy school or 学卷学校就係帕人地淺, 要深d!

你睇小学嘅 post, 個就係想升中好!   happy school? 有幾多人熱烈尋找?

這就是社會!

點評

SillyU  政府的錯  發表於 15-11-5 14:12
oho1  so true !   發表於 15-11-5 14:01

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120293
58#
發表於 15-11-5 13:48 |只看該作者
行內人睇法:「禍首」與「從犯」應一齊聲討
https://thestandnews.com/society ... %E5%BE%9E%E7%8A%AF/

還記得初為父母時,對孩子的期望嗎?我當時只想他/她平平安安,健健康康。
隨著時光飛逝,人的期望慢慢變了,變得越來越有要求。所以要經常提醒自己:毋忘初心
箴言4:23 - 你要保守你心,勝過保守一切,因為一生的果效是由心發出。
箴言22:6 - 教養孩童,使他走當行的道,就是到老他也不會偏離。

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8550
59#
發表於 15-11-5 13:49 |只看該作者
SillyU 發表於 15-11-5 136
敢問你小朋友考咗TSA未?  

你自己point 1 已要求立即取消,咁你知唔知自己quote咗啲乜?
Wah, 敢唔通我為你嗰句你小朋友考咗TsA未呀,我唔覺得深吖就buy 你呀?
我當然唔係嗰啲乜都可以quantify 去比較就以為瞭解哂事實的全部的家長啦

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243
60#
發表於 15-11-5 13:54 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 CY0212 於 15-11-5 13:55 編輯
Doray 發表於 15-11-5 13:42

Come on! accept the fact that most parent, majority of parent, care which secondary school their kid can go more then anything

you had to accept this fact, then from here, look at all issues at primary school... back to kinder or even back to PN

parents care, that's why school care.... school care, that's why they execute steps to ensure or improve the outcome

simple fact

TSA difficult? why so many say it is not ?  if something is  universal  issue, everyone should response the same

look at EK, so many parent already told you, they don't think so... and so many private school already demonstrate they are teaching something more advance then TSA

think about it. okay?


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