小 學 咪 催 谷

cow

睇緊名位的大作，阿仔話要用電腦，便比佢用，點知再睇的時候，看到自己回應了把 ，便拿拿臨delete把火。順便回應一下。

大家的回應都很精彩，但我想冇一個人睇完回應後，對自己的信念會有絲亳改變。

有一點我覺得奇怪，很多回應比我的感覺就是
excel in university = successful
所以要argue有多少人 "did so-so in primary and secondary" can excel in univeristy". 其實我想問:
甲 did so-so in primary, secondary and university.
乙 did excel in primary, secondary and unviersity.
那個將來有較佳成就的機會大呢?

lochan

COW,

There are preconceptions that a lot of people thinks that those who studied in good prim and secon. school, then attend good Univ. in HK will succeed more easily.
I don't disagree. Since the route is so well defined and easy to understand by parents and children.

If this is achieved by 催 谷, then I will have reservation to it. People will say to me that this is the way of life. And most people in HK think the same so it must have truth in it. It's sad. That's why there are other alternatives and more and more parents are picking this route.

COW wrote:
excel in university = successful
所以要argue有多少人 "did so-so in primary and secondary" can excel in univeristy". 其實我想問:
甲 did so-so in primary, secondary and university.
乙 did excel in primary, secondary and unviersity.
那個將來有較佳成就的機會大呢?

Nobody can tell, except we can predict based on statistics (anyone has any article of this subject? interest to see some numbers). 成就 is a very subjective term to each individual. All I am trying to say is those who did so-so in prim. (incl. me), it's not the end of the world, there are still numerous chances ahead of you to achieve your own 成就.

sheenaho

duplicate.

sheenaho

說到'成就', 是我高d (I am a U grad) or my boss 高d ?他中學都畢唔到業.  

一點感想而矣.

Sindy

sheenaho 寫道:
說到'成就', 是我高d (I am a U grad) or my boss 高d ?他中學都畢唔到業.  

一點感想而矣.

而家同以前唔同囉...............以前真係學歷未必係一切.......但而家掛左鈎咁濟.........將來就會普通到好似小六中五程度咁架咋.................好似早幾年搵工..........中五都夠....,而家好多都要中七........將來要大學架啦

KatieM1203

KatieM1203 寫道:
我相信大多数人都认识蔡澜，他虽没有小孩子，但他所说的并不没有道理（虽然我不完全认同）。

可是，左丁山和李树星的背景是什么 ？

Since most of you guys are still here, can any of you share some information on my query?

cow

左丁山曾主持城市論壇 。

haohao

我路過咋，借個位答問題，大家唔好鬧我！

==============
【左丁山】是筆名-- 真名「香樹輝」，「政經」人士。



以下是左丁山在一些訪問中提到的對「兒女讀書」的見解，有興趣可是參考下：

http://www.infowide.com.hk/NGAU21.HTM

http://www.wenweipo.com/

============

【李樹昇】是真名，筆名是「阿圖說力」，也是「正經」人士；雖然未婚，但每天接觸的小朋友比 most of us 多。曾與李敏合寫網劇/小說《探偵學院》等。



http://www.cosmosbooks.com.hk/topic_3/page_2.asp?id=225

judy

YK,

有人說現代 “語言失效”，不見得，但文字失效，却是事實，起碼我的文字，常常失效。為補救此缺失，可能要學你加些公仔(雖然有點低能)。如以下一句，加一   ，就不易被誤會。

你知唔知你咁講即係insulting我，你當我係傻仔，話我唔知"愉快學習，效果更佳"這個道理，學阿Lochan話，你大大傷害佐我。    

下面一段，本意是你看後，會覺得好笑，因為其中邏輯混亂，破碇百出，只望博你一笑，不知加甚麽公仔好，請健議：

我不單相信"愉快學習，效果更佳"，我還切實執行，每天見阿大阿二，我第一句問的多數是 “今日上學開唔開心阿”之類。晚上，阿大阿二不用做功課和温書(家規不能做)，除了每周一周記，没有額外練習。阿大話他开始寫日記(其實是記得就記)，連周記也省了。总之，阿大阿二快樂得不得了，可能比你大少還快樂，除非你能証明你家大少有更好之效果，不然，你不能說你大少學習得比我阿大阿二愉快，"愉快學習，效果更佳"嘛。

言歸正傳，何時何地，做甚麽事，都要和實際環境結合，盡量中庸，做到心安理得，不扮嘢，才最愉快。

從前一個老婦，供養一位禪師，每天叫孫女敬茶奉飯，收拾打掃，一天，禅房着火，孫女將禪師背出。老婦問禪師孫女背他出来時，有何感覺，禪師說像抱一枯木，老婦一怒之下，將禪師趕走，禪師乃扮嘢之表表者，不可能進入禪境。學習選校也一樣，問問自己，是否過得自己那關，不扮嘢，咁，離愉快不遠。

一提到愉快學習，很多人必提美國教育，但美國少年，有必要像香港一樣學外語麽？如香港學生不需學英文，中文是世界上最有效率之語言，只學中文，一定愉快萬分。以前，我輩讀書時，父母只希望我们努力讀書，将来可做寫字樓工，可嘆冷氣，父母寄望不殷，子女自能輕鬆，現代之父母呢？那個不望子成龍。我也想學苏東坡，希望仔女蠢蠢的，無憂無慮，但将来有所成就，可惜機會很低。

“小 學 咪 催 谷”，甚本上我是同意的，但有一條件， 孩子成績起碼band1。有没有讀捕蛇者說，香港之文化風氣猛於虎(又姓賴)，我學捕蛇者，為子女報一功課艰深學校(起碼某方面)，他们只要不太蠢，又能完成功課，就幾乎是Band1，我於是像捕蛇者一樣能安心，心能安，才愉快，子女感受到你之安心和愉快，自也能愉快。

Sindy

stccmc 寫道:

  一般尋常小孩, 恐怕操到變呆子也未入到"艰深學校"。  

終於搵到位又up下.................我諗尋常孩子....只要父母有度身訂做咁做足準備工夫...........唔駛操到變呆子既................

ykwong

Judy,

I think I didn't misunderstand you, no failure of your words, easy, easy!

just my introduction to that your feeling should differ to lochan. My words were failure since i didnn't finish what i want to say. As mentioned, view turned to your friend and forgot to compare what feeling should be when compare to lochan.  And i really forgot the comparision at that time, so wrote other things.

Sorry lochan, we are like that, not pinpointing you

我不單相信"愉快學習，效果更佳"，我還切實執行，每天見阿大阿二，我第一句問的多數是 “今日上學開唔開心阿”之類。晚上，阿大阿二不用做功課和温書(家規不能做)，除了每周一周記，没有額外練習。阿大話他开始寫日記(其實是記得就記)，連周記也省了。总之，阿大阿二快樂得不得了，可能比你大少還快樂，除非你能証明你家大少有更好之效果，不然，你不能說你大少學習得比我阿大阿二愉快，"愉快學習，效果更佳"嘛。

This one la
:tongue:  :tongue:  :tongue:

stccmc,

you need interpretation? I mean, people accepts there exists talent in sport; music or any kind of arts work. After a certain period of hard training, they will accept to give up since there is no talent of their child.

the difference is, it doesn't apply to learning (school work, acedemic.. etc). And some lucky (smart should be more appropriate) guys always claim that there is no difficulties in studying, how they achieve certain recognition with their own hardships.

My sense is, they are both brain works, shouldn't be had different view. The misery is that, parents accept no talent in some aspects but not in academic. More sad is that, it is some kind of reality we must perform better.

I don't believe modern categories of brain analysis, previously, we have left, right brain. nowadays we have, six colour hat, nine characteristics,  five sense of recognition...bra bra bra! (don't know the exact term in english)

Haven't seen a human be exactly of one kind. More often we see some people are good in multi aspects, for the excellency one, they are not only good at, let's say, Lee Wan Dick, piano. he may be good in painting too, but more chance to be suceed was found in piano at the early stage.

In my secondary school life, since there was no so many formal training as now, the smart guys always got all the tittles, football team, althetic team, perfect, bra bra bra (I like bra   ) and of course, including acedemic result.

The mystery is (to my own sense), is it born to be talent or trained to be? I am somehow wonder the statement you mostly hated "don't let your child lose in the starting point", is it correct in some sense?

More clear or more confuse? You know I am bad in both mother tongue and other tongue

judy

stccmc 寫道:
judy,

//
“小 學 咪 催 谷”，甚本上我是同意的，但有一條件， 孩子成績起碼band1。有没有讀捕蛇者說，香港之文化風氣猛於虎(又姓賴)，我學捕蛇者，為子女報一功課艰深學校(起碼某方面)，他们只要不太蠢，又能完成功課，就幾乎是Band1，我於是像捕蛇者一樣能安心，心能安，才愉快，子女感受到你之安心和愉快，自也能愉快。
//

唔知你呢段又係咪考下我地呢?    想入"艰深學校", 正是大部份家長催谷小朋友學術/音/體/美的原動力。  一般尋常小孩, 恐怕操到變呆子也未入到"艰深學校"。  

用放任政策, 小孩可能會濫用自由, 過度催谷又害處甚多, 如何拿得準繩很考功夫啊!

Stccmc,

我唸入到都"艰深學校"後，反而會安心。Lochan個仔嗰間聽聞都唔淺，但小朋友程度够的話，自然非常愉快。

我阿大嗰間，因没有中學，所以我要求起碼band1，但因力所能及，也非常愉快。當然，照道理没有Lochan個仔咁Happy.

我想，這道理就像挑水，有學校要求每天挑两大担，餘下時間休息。但有的却要每天挑三小担才能休息。我選挑两大担的，因我認為這更有效和Happy。

Sindy

一個細路仔好孝順.......日日幫阿媽挑水......由細桶中桶大桶.........長大後....果d弱不襟風既人...沒有段練身體.....挑水能力不及人.....拎得好吃力......相比起呢個細路......毫不辛苦...........但人地就會話,你咁樣因住谷壞   



ykwong, judy........你地講野越黎越高深呀...就下我好喎

KWT

真是一個令人惆悵的題目.以我大仔來說,因為他很自律發奮讀書學習,讀小學真正沒有催 谷他,只是製造機會給他接受事物.今年升中一,發覺有問題.甚麼問題?他想參加校內乒乓球,要test,結果失敗;參加游泳,時間不夠人快,失敗;參加棋藝,又技不如人,不被取錄.看來只有參加冷門學會.如此這般,的確是打擊,信心很易打殘.到此方知,原來學任何活動,都要做得非常出色.只懂及有興趣,其實並不足夠.難道樣樣東西都要催谷?非講成績不可?

hviy

咦~~~睇吓睇吓,連捕蛇者說出埋嚟....唸到cc吓,等我仲唸埋咆丁解牛至唸到.....畢景年紀大la,n年前嘅野嘛~~~呀...唸到啦,"苛政猛於虎"Ic......
咁講吓講吓,又要band1成績+又唔要書呆子+又要課外活動出色=非入名校不可   

lochan

yk,

In general I'm an relatively easy going person. Only very rare occasion when being stepped on my tail I will rebuttle. But there's no hard feelings.

I agree with you that kids' (or even adults) talent is not easy to identify (or if he has any at all). Some can be pushed and some fight back, some don't need practice (like my sister who played violin) and can perform well (not soloist, but well enough to be in an orchestra), some practice every day and get no progress. All we can do provide a platform for him to try. But should we force him to continue? I don't have a solution myself for if I push my child, he will one day get sick of something he used to enjoy. If I don't, I'm afraid he will be behind. But I tend to wait if he is not ready to be pushed. Children will show immense interest and time when he meet something he likes  e.g. gameboy etc. unfortunately. Why? Because there's more fun in it! Bottom line, there’s no one solution that fits all!

Judy,

Where did you find out that my son is attending a decent school? I thought I kept it to myself quite well. Nevermind, just keep it to yourself.

I don’t mind homework provided that they are inspiring. But to copy words, to spell do exercise repetitiously is not what I want to see my kid to go through. Say for comprehension, questions like “what’s the name of who and who?” “who said such and such” etc is simply boring and the answer is definitive. I would rather they ask questions with open end answers like “If you were the person, what would you do?” or “If the guy do something else, what could have happened” etc. This will force the child to think and learn to be able to deal with situation. An answer is considered good answer if it is unique. It is not the amount of HW that I oppose most, which I still oppose, it is the lack of quality in these homework that I oppose. I am more proud of my son if he behaves well.

I rather 催 谷 his behaviour. Yesterday, when he is taking an MTR train to go home, he saw a person dropped a lot of things on the floor in the concourse, he simply finished his chips on his hand, wipe his hands on his pants (well, I have no problem with this!), dropped the school bag and ran over to help the person. Seriously, I am more gratified by his act than him getting an A in tests and exams.


cheers

麟媽媽

對！眼見朋友日常都「谷」個仔了。
而家見佢運動又「谷」埋一份，
睇佢真慘，一星期有4、5晚練水，
都應該不錯啩，都係無緣入泳隊。
唔知攪咩又叫個仔操田徑，
務求總之hit中一樣。
唔知佢個仔有無興趣？！
有時運動都好講天份身形結構，
仲有你老豆媽子有無遺傳D 好野過你。
以前小妹正是田徑校隊，
只知講求肌肉爆炸性，
有咩比賽前一定唔可以去游水。
呢位亞媽搵兩樣唔同既運動一齊操，
看來怕會兩頭唔到岸。

KWT 寫道:
真是一個令人惆悵的題目.以我大仔來說,因為他很自律發奮讀書學習,讀小學真正沒有催 谷他,只是製造機會給他接受事物.今年升中一,發覺有問題.甚麼問題?他想參加校內乒乓球,要test,結果失敗;參加游泳,時間不夠人快,失敗;參加棋藝,又技不如人,不被取錄.看來只有參加冷門學會.如此這般,的確是打擊,信心很易打殘.到此方知,原來學任何活動,都要做得非常出色.只懂及有興趣,其實並不足夠.難道樣樣東西都要催谷?非講成績不可?