P.3 English, pls help

星級國民

原文章由 sabmar 於 07-11-29 15:04 發表
'climb onto the chair' sounds ok to me.

"Climb onto the chair" is grammatically correct.

"Climb on to the chair" would either be wrong or very strange usage.

The whole exercise is very problematic.

The question "Can you play with me?" is Chinglish. "Can" is usually for a question on ability. For example, "Can you ride a bicycle?" is asking about the skills of handling a bicycle. "Would you like to ride a bicycle?" is asking for a choice. "Play with me" is also a very odd phrase. One play with toys, matches(fire risk!), plasticine etc, which are usually objects rather than a person. "Play with me" may be used in a muscial sense meaning following my lead music. So that question should be "Would you join me for a game?" or in a imperative format "Let's play".

For most native speakers, "climbing onto a chair" will end up sitting on it. So the better way is to say "Stand on a chair". (Note, the indefinite article should be used rather than the definite one).

With exercise like this, no wonder our kids' English is so poor!

星級國民

原文章由 christf 於 07-12-3 16:09 發表


No,  play with somebody or something is a com ...

I would not say that is common English. However, it is the whole question that is Chinglish. If you insist to take "Can you play with me?" as proper English, it is up to you.

星級國民

原文章由 christf 於 07-12-3 16:54 發表
Go to check with a dictionary (e.g. Oxford's Advanced English Learner) if you don't believe that "play with somebody or something is a common and correct form of English usage but not a Chinglish"

By ...

I am not saying that it is grammatically wrong, just odd language.

As I say, it is up to you about usage. I do not believe it is proper English.

However, I hope at least parents can help kids to learn English in a way to distinguish between the meanings of
"Can you go with me?" and
"Shall we go together?".

星級國民

原文章由 christf 於 07-12-3 17:34 發表
星級國民 insisted that:

"lay with me" is also a very odd phrase. One play with toys, matches(fire risk!), plasticine etc, which are usually objects rather than a person.

************************

O ...

Yes, I do insist. If you would like dictionaries as authority, I see nothing in Advanced Learner to suggest proper usage of "play with". Let us refer to some more authoritative source.

The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary V2, p 2245. Under the head word "play" as verb (meaning 13)

13 v.i. follow by with, amuse oneself with, sport with, touch or finger lightly by the way of amusement, treat or do lightly or frivolously, trifle or toy with, colloq. masturbate.

Or using a dictionary good for its usage in context, the Collins COBUILD dictionary explains on P. 1259

(6) If you play with an object or with your hair, you keep moving it or touching it with your fingers, perhaps because you are bored or nervous. [pattern v with n].

I trust those trustworthly dictionaries.

[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-3 18:11 編輯 ]

星級國民

It is not one of various ways. The only item in the Shorter Oxford Dictionary (which is the full Oxford Dictionary without the quotes from literature) that links the two words "play with" together is in that quote.

[If you do not consider the full Oxford Dictionary as authority, what is?]

The COBUILD dictionary is based on the Bank of English database and lists all the most common usages from both British and American sources. It also only carries that item with the pattern "play with".

I wish you luck if your kid(s) learn such a kind of English based just on simple definitions.

[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-3 18:36 編輯 ]

星級國民

原文章由 christf 於 07-12-3 18:34 發表
For The Advanced Learner, it gives out 18 different usages of "play" as a verb, 2 different usages of "play" as PHR V and 7 different usages of "play" as  a noun.  It almost has two whole pages descri ...

Google "The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary" or "The Oxford English Dictionary" or even OED, than you will know what is authority in the English language.

星級國民

Language is about common accepted usage. If both highly respectable dictionaries list that as the only meaning, I would definitely logically recommend parents not to teach kids to use such phrases when they do not intend to carry the listed meaning.

BTW, have you googled OED and learn a bit more about dictionaries. You may also google COBUILD or "Bank of English" to see how we determine usage and meaning in context.

原文章由 christf 於 07-12-3 18:44 發表
Have a logical sense, please !

The dictionaries you use may not completely list out all the various usage of a word.  I am not saying the thing you quoted are wrong but just tell you that one of the  ...

星級國民

I see. You do not even bother to check google (or even wikipedia) the two dictionaries I quoted.

If you did, you would recognised that both claim to have cover the COMMON meanings. You would know the kind of research that goes behind such a claim.

原文章由 christf 於 07-12-3 18:53 發表
You really don't have a logical sense.  Do your dictionaries tell you that what they have listed down are the only usages or meanings?

If you have read enough books, you will see many examples of usi ...

[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-3 22:08 編輯 ]

星級國民

The Sesame Street video seems to use "play with me" in the context of playing music (i.e. performing a musical piece). It has the meaning of "following me in a song" rather than having fun together.

Thanks for posting the Wiki information. At least you are a responsible parent who would search for information. It is much better than allowing ignorance to breed contempt.

星級國民

原文章由 awah112 於 07-12-3 21:30 發表
外國年齡細既小朋友會講"Can you play with me?"

並非中國人專利，所以唔應該歸類為Chinglish.

是不是中國人專利倒未研究過.

年幼就什麼怪語言都會有, Winnie the Pooh將蜜糖寫成hunny有何不可?

但小學三年級就應該教正正經經的英語, 不要再用幼童的語言.