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教育王國 討論區 國際學校 Attention!! All Canadian citizens with kids born out ...
樓主: jolalee
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Attention!! All Canadian citizens with kids born outside of Canada!!!!! [複製鏈接]

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7107
21#
發表於 16-9-6 13:27 |只看該作者

引用:Quote:原帖由+Artie+於+16-09-06+發表I+was

原帖由 Activehealth 於 16-09-06 發表
I was born in HK well before 97 and my boy was born in HK after 2000. We both have Australian passpo ...
good way to handle the rationality issues. it's too late for us to aware of the hidden risks.



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5616
22#
發表於 16-9-6 21:31 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-6 21:39 編輯
Artie 發表於 16-9-6 12:00
I have a friend with kid born in Hong Kong. She tried to apply for a visa on a foreign passport ...

Thank you for your information Artie!
My son has Australian, Canadian & Hong Kong SAR passports, but not 回鄉卡 as he has never set foot in China, yet. So basically, for ethnic Chinese born in HK, they now must apply for 回鄉卡 in order to enter China? Are they allowed to enter with HK SAR passport? (I guess not?) In this case, since he already has a HK SAR. passport, would he still be considered a Chinese citizen, or only if he applied for a 回鄉卡?Since China does not allow for dual citizenship, I suppose China would consider those with 回鄉卡 as Chinese Citizens and ignore their foreign passports, but what about those with just HK SAR passports without 回鄉卡?TIA for my many queries!

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9567
23#
發表於 16-9-6 23:43 |只看該作者
jolalee 發表於 16-9-6 21:31
So basically, for ethnic Chinese born in HK, they now must apply for 回鄉卡 in order to enter China? ...
Correct, if your child is someone "of Chinese race" and have parental roots in HK, then in China's eyes he is "first and foremost" a China national, regardless of what passport he holds or where he was born.
In future if he wishes to travel to China from HK, he must obtain a "Return to Village" card. If by that time he has settled in Canada or Australia, he will not be able to obtain a China visa for his Canadian or Australian passport, the China Embassy will reject his application and he must obtain a variation of China's "Return to Village" card, which means he will be entering China as a China national and will not be entitled to any form of foreign consular assistance.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/06/30/China-Refusing-to-Recognize-Canadian-Citizenship-of-Travellers/



My view is, if you don't like China's rules, just don't go there. The world is a big place (196 million square miles), and China (3.7 million square miles) is less than 2% of the world :)

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5616
24#
發表於 16-9-7 07:45 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-7 07:46 編輯

Thanks for the link Fatty Daddy!

"It goes against international law; it's part and parcel of China's refusal to acknowledge the authority of international regimes in general.... the policy could be considered discrimination because Beijing is issuing visas based solely on people's ethnicity."

Another example of China overlooking International practice for their own advantages.... See if any African country can pull THAT off for black Americans!!

I agree with you that we'd rather not let our son go to China if this country bends international laws like that! However, I think for your calculation you are including non-inhabitable areas such as the 7 seas and snowy tundras... Well, I guess our son can visit those places too

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1703
25#
發表於 16-9-7 09:03 |只看該作者

引用:+本帖最後由+jolalee+於+16-9-7+07:46+編輯

原帖由 jolalee 於 16-09-07 發表
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-7 07:46 編輯

Thanks for the link Fatty Daddy!
While it is not necessary to bring our children to China for travelling if we don't like it, they may need to visit China for business purposes in future.



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5616
26#
發表於 16-9-8 23:39 |只看該作者
回覆 hkparent 的帖子

Yes, that's why I'm keen on trying to apply for China Visa from Australia this coming Christmas when we return there for our annual visit. Hopefully my son will get visa entry via his Aussie passport... We really don't know what will happen in the future (where the kids will work, if China will change their policy even for ethnic honest who had been traveling with Foreign passport etc), but we just have to do what we can see and do today, for tomorrow.

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9567
27#
發表於 16-9-9 17:39 |只看該作者
jolalee 發表於 16-9-7 07:45
See if any African country can pull THAT off for black Americans!! ...
Well, if Kenya regards Barack Obama as "first and foremost" a Kenyan and if he wants to visit Kenya he could only enter the country with a "Return to Jungle" card, I guess Barack will simply not go

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10361
28#
發表於 16-9-9 18:32 |只看該作者
Return to Jungle.... sounds like not as bad as our situation.

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5331
29#
發表於 16-9-10 15:26 |只看該作者
jolalee 發表於 16-9-8 23:39
回覆 hkparent 的帖子

Yes, that's why I'm keen on trying to apply for China Visa from Australia this ...

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

點評

jolalee  okay i will. that'd be after Christmas...  發表於 16-9-11 22:15

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525
30#
發表於 16-9-11 21:05 |只看該作者

回覆:Attention!! All Canadian citizens with kids born outside of Canada!!!!!

Only multiple entry visa is rejected.  I never heard any problem with single entry visa.  
Multiple entry visa has always been difficult even for business travellers.



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66
31#
發表於 16-9-12 07:05 |只看該作者

回覆:Attention!! All Canadian citizens with kids born outside of Canada!!!!!

Even u can Help ur kid to get a visa to China today, doesn't mean u can to the same next week. China's regulation changes whenever they like and they don't need to inform u in advance. They can reject ur application without giving a reason.

The hidden meaning to force HK born foreign kids to apply 回鄉卡 instead of a visa is... Using 回鄉卡 to enter China, which means u admit u are a Chinese citizen. If u break any law (or they just don't like u) or under investigation, don't expect the Canadian embassy can help u coz u are a "Chinese citizen" committing a crime in China!



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444
32#
發表於 16-9-15 12:36 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 random_dad 於 16-9-15 12:43 編輯

Let me attempt to clarify, as I have spent some time looking at the rules for myself, being a foreign born Chinese.

The issue at the heart of the issue, and is the basis of the determination of whether you are considered a Chinese National in the eyes of China, is if the child was born outside of Hong kong, then whether at time of birth, the parent of that child is a resident of Hong Kong (or China), or whether the parents have emigrated.  So if a child was born at a time when the parents normally resided in a foreign country and holds that citizenship, then the child would not be considered Chinese.  Conversely, if the child was born while the parents were "vacationing" in another country, then that child would be considered Chinese.  These are the same rules that HKSAR Immigration uses to determine whether you will qualify for a HKSAR passport or not.  There are also considerations for those born before 1997 handover, where those children would be entitled to dual citizenship and Chinese nationality as a result of their birth while HK was under British rule.

A quick summary:

Child born in HK + Parents are Chinese = Chinese child
Child born elsewhere + Parents have migrated elsewhere = not Chinese child
Child born elsewhere + Parents normally live in HK at the time of birth = Chinese child
Child born before 1997 whether in HK or overseas + Parents are Chinese and have PR status in HK = Chinese child

From the above:

If your child is Chinese -> you qualify for 回鄉卡 -> no need for visa -> go get 回鄉卡
If your child is not Chinese -> you don't qualify for 回鄉卡 -> no problems with getting visa

Here's what it boils down to...  They will not issues visas to people that are their own nationals.  This is logical, and true of any other nation.  If you wish to obtain a visa, then what the visa office in Hong Kong will ask you to do is to confirm that you are not a Chinese national by going to HKSAR Immigration and declaring that you are giving up your rights as a PR in HK.  In other words, you can't be both a Chinese national and a Chinese non-national at the same time.  This policy hasn't changed in recent years.
  
Furthermore, from my understanding, if you have gained citizenship by birth from countries other than China, then those countries will also not extend you the consular courtesies that China might be able to offer (I know, not likely anyways).  But the point I'm trying to make is that China is applying the rules the same way that any other country would apply in determination of whether you qualify for consular protection based on citizenship obtained by birth.  In other words, if you were born in Canada and have obtained Australian citizenship by naturalization, Australia will not be able to offer you consular protection while in Canada.  With this in mind, the part I am uncertain is whether if you relinquish your rights as a HK PR, whether you would then qualify for consular protection, because that relinquishes the right in HK, but China might still sees that person as a Chinese national.

Where the crux of the issue, of course, is that China does not recognize dual citizenship, while many other nations do, and a special exemption was made to HKSAR by China.  This exemption adds a complicating factor.

I suspect the case from Canada that made news was of someone applying for a China visa that probably is a Chinese national because their birth was before the handover.  From looking at the info from that incident, it doesn't appear to me that the policies have changed.  I think they were issued their visas subsequently.

I have personally been denied a visa application made via the visa office in Hong Kong, but have been able to obtain a visa in my foreign passport from that foreign country.   I have also been able to obtain a 回鄉卡 subsequent to that (and not too long ago), after proving to HKSAR Immigration that I was a Chinese national by providing my parent's travel documents from around the time I was born showing their exit and entry records as being consistent of someone residing at Hong Kong at the time, and obtaining a HKSAR passport.

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9567
33#
發表於 16-9-15 23:49 |只看該作者
random_dad 發表於 16-9-15 12:36
the visa office in Hong Kong will ask you to do is to confirm that you are not a Chinese national by going to HKSAR Immigration and declaring that you are giving up your rights as a PR in HK ...
Don't know about the other points mentioned in the message but this I know is not accurate.

A HK PR is not the same as a Chinese National, there are many foreigners who are HK PR but are not Chinese Nationals.


If you have automatically acquired Chinese nationality on 1/July/1997 (as would be the case for every HK PR who are "of Chinese blood") and you wish to renounce that nationality, you could do so without giving up any right of being a HK PR, in other words you will still have the triple star HKID card and have the right of abode in HK and the right to vote etc.



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1263
34#
發表於 16-9-16 22:22 |只看該作者
回覆 FattyDaddy 的帖子

So you mean one can renounce Chinese nationality without giving up HK PR? I noted your point that many foreigners are HK PRs but not Chinese nationals, but I would consider them as a different "specie" as they are never entitled to Chinese nationality.  For us HK born ethic Chinese, if we renounce Chinese nationality, I am curious what the ramification is.  Obviously, living in HK, it's important to maintain HK PR... thanks

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9567
35#
發表於 16-9-17 05:57 |只看該作者
tibbar2011 發表於 16-9-16 22:22
For us HK born ethic Chinese, if we renounce Chinese nationality, I am curious what the ramification is ...
Straight from the horse's mouth :)
http://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/services/chinese_nationality/Application_for_Renunciation_of_Chinese_Nationality.html


An excerpt from the webpage ...

The applicant will continue to enjoy his/her right of abode in Hong Kong after his/her application for renunciation of Chinese nationality has been approved, provided that:

(a) the applicant had the right of abode in Hong Kong before 1 July 1997, AND

  • he/she was settled in Hong Kong immediately before 1 July 1997; or
  • after he/she ceased to be settled in Hong Kong immediately before 1 July 1997, he/she returned to settle in Hong Kong within 18 months commencing on 1 July 1997; or
  • after he/she ceased to be settled in Hong Kong immediately before 1 July 1997, he/she returned to settle in Hong Kong after the period of 18 months commencing on 1 July 1997 but only if he/she had been absent from Hong Kong for a continuous period of less than 36 months.



I believe most ethnic Chinese Hongkonger would satisfy conditions (a) and 1 above so the Right of Abode in HK is protected, the consequence is you won't be entitled to an HKSAR passport (actually a China passport because that's the country issuing it) and a "Return to Village" card.


Incidentally the webpage also mentions this ...


"If the applicant loses his/her right of abode in Hong Kong, he/she will automatically acquire the right to land, which will enable him/her to enter the HKSAR freely and to work, study or live without any restriction on the condition of stay in Hong Kong. The applicant will also be able to re-acquire the right of abode if he/she subsequently satisfies the requirements applicable to a non-Chinese citizen"


So, not such a big deal even if you lose the Right of Abode.




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4454
36#
發表於 16-9-19 11:02 |只看該作者
回覆 random_dad 的帖子

我的理解是;如你所說;因中國不承認雙重國籍;只要你是香港出生;在香港居住;或海外出生97後回港入境時是聲明了永久居民身份;你便是香港人(不管你拿多少本外國護照);享有香港永久居民福利:同時在香港或內地也失去所屬國藉國家之領事保護權。

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444
37#
發表於 16-9-20 12:29 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 random_dad 於 16-9-20 12:30 編輯
FattyDaddy 發表於 16-9-17 05:57
Straight from the horse's mouth :)
http://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/services/chinese_nationality/Applicati ...

I should have been more clear and not interchangeably use HK PR and Chinese Nationality for what I wrote.

But the assumption that most ethnic Chinese Hongkonger would satisfy 1 and (a) is a bit of a reach in my opinion.  Part (a.1) says that the person needed to be settled immediately before 1 July 1997, which would mean that if you had immigrated at that moment in time, and unless you have returned shortly thereafter and satisfied either part (a.2) or (a.3) as well, you will indeed loose your Right of Abode (aka HK PR) when you renounce your Chinese nationality.

Summary:

If you are a Chinese national + If you were living in HK on 1 July 1997 = Keep Right of Abode
If you are a Chinese national + If you were living elsewhere on 1 July 1997 + returned before 31 Dec 1998 = Keep Right of Abode
If you are a Chinese national + If you were living elsewhere on 1 July 1997 + returned before 30 Jun 2000 = Keep Right of Abode
All other Chinese nationals = Lose your right of abode and retain your right to land but can reacquire your right of abode after 7 years.

Basically, if you had emigrated from Hong Kong at the time of handover, unless you had returned shortly after and satisfied the above conditions, you would lose your right of abode.  I would argue the privilege to retain the right of abode for would not apply for most ethnic Chinese Hong Kongers that were not in Hong Kong at time of handover.

You are correct in the consequences in that for most that choose to renounce their Chinese nationality, they would be giving up the right to a HKSAR passport and a 回鄉卡, and would therefore need a visa to enter China.  They can live and work in Hong Kong with the right to land, but the other right they would lose is the right to vote.  Whether this last part is a big deal or not would depending on the person.

The longer consequence is actually similar to what started this thread; the next generation would not be a Chinese national and therefore would not be entitled to a right of abode or a right to land, I guess in a way similar to what Canadians and Australians have done with their law, although not in an exact manner.




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444
38#
發表於 16-9-20 12:32 |只看該作者
tibbar2011 發表於 16-9-16 22:22
回覆 FattyDaddy 的帖子

So you mean one can renounce Chinese nationality without giving up HK PR? I  ...
I would add to my above response and FattyDaddy's above response that as long as when you give up your Chinese nationality you have another nationality, then what is stated above is correct, because if you don't have another nationality, you would become stateless (which I don't know if HK Immi would allow anyways) and other complications would arise.

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444
39#
發表於 16-9-20 12:42 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 random_dad 於 16-9-20 12:43 編輯
oooray 發表於 16-9-19 11:02
回覆 random_dad 的帖子

我的理解是;如你所說;因中國不承認雙重國籍;只要你是香港出生;在香港居住;或 ...

What I've stated above is correct, with FattyDaddy providing the links to HK Immi for the official explanation.

What we are discussing is what happens if someone chooses to renounce their Chinese Nationality.  So long as you don't, then the Right of Abode (HK PR) status is retained regardless of dual or multiple citizenship.

I'm not sure which of the points raised you are addressing or responding to, so if you can clarify, it would help me understand if I've made a mistake or am not clear in my explanation.

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9567
40#
發表於 16-9-20 13:42 |只看該作者
random_dad 發表於 16-9-20 12:29
But the assumption that most ethnic Chinese Hongkonger would satisfy 1 and (a) is a bit of a reach in my opinion.  ...
No I would not say it is a bit of a reach if we put things into context.
The majority of ethnic Chinese Hongkongers have never emigrated elsewhere, and for the minority who did, many of them regarded foreign nationality as an insurance only and never intended to settle in the country they emigrated to, hence the popular phrase "移民監" was coined. To them, being away from HK was like a jail term and some even bragged about how they cheated the system and obtained citizenship without doing the time. Thus getting out of "jail" would be a general desire and given the peak of emigration occurred in the early 1990's, most of them would have returned to HK by 1997 or shortly afterwards.

Anyway, this is only a minor point.

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