有無人收到CAIS既offer呀?

ritz_ng

Oh sorry Vivian I overlooked your message, your case not with sibling priority.

ritz_ng

Not really. Still have a few kids interviewed on 10 jan but not yet got the notification. Guess the announcement goes to priority group with foreign passport holders or with sibling.

Welcome to correct me if my guess is wrong 😁

adios

原帖由 ritz_ng 於 15-02-03 發表
Not really. Still have a few kids interviewed on 10 jan but not yet got the notification. Guess the  ...

My son was interview on 10 Jan with Foreign passport. Still waiting for the result

random_dad

lovecasey 發表於 15-2-3 20:47
How does the debenture work? Depriciate it's value every year or refundable ?

It's non-depreciating and transferable.   

It's like you loaning money to the school until your child leaves the school, and then you get it back sometime after your child leaves CAIS.  Cannot be transferred until after school in operation for a year (so 2018), and only at generally only at the beginning of the school year.  Can only be transferred at face value less an administrative fee.

Also, the theoretical risk is that since it's to be "transferred", by definition there needs to be someone that it will be transferred to, so this is dependent on the school being stable with its enrollment, which should not be an issue given the reputation of the school and the demand for international school spaces in general.

It's been said publicly by CAIS (not on the public facing website but to the FAQ that can be seen by parents of existing students) that the next tranche of debenture is anticipated to be not less than $400k, so those entering this year should fully expect the debenture to be significantly higher than the $250k that was available to existing students up until last month.

In reality, $250k was really not realistic or sustainable IMHO since the cost of everything has been rising dramatically in Hong Kong.  And if you take, for example, ICS, that charges $200k as a debenture (plus higher tuition fees) for a campus completed in 2008 (a full 9 years earlier than CAIS), or when you compare Harrow that charges $600k for their debenture and at least 30% more tuition, in the IS space, CAIS would be considered reasonable even if they were to charge $400k, though some may not agree.

But at the end of the day, $400k is a lot of money for most people, myself included.

ritz_ng

Oh.... Tks for ur info. I don't have foreign passport but still hope u can enjoy the priority to get the offer 😊💪

ritz_ng

Thanks a lot for ur info. Really helpful to get such an update from existing parent. Thanks a lot random dad. I guess it's what the school meant to be transparent re the info available on school web. Thanks.

Agree with your point. To me, one kid is still ok while I really need to think carefully for the second one 😅 tks again

vivian-chy

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I don't have kid in CAIS currently, but yes I have two kids, debenture is one of my concerns. I do love christian school and small class size.. Another option is esf, so any info about both schools are useful for me. Thanks.

random_dad

vivian-chy 發表於 15-2-3 22:37
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I don't have kid in CAIS currently, but yes I have two kids, debenture is one o ...

Clearly I'm biased towards CAIS as I have a child attending.  But here's my take...

If Christian school and small class sizes are a concern, then CAIS is ahead on both counts, as CAIS biblical teaching is good, and their class sizes are around 21, whereas ESF is up to 30 I believe.  I can attest that the small class size makes a HUGE difference in the quality of teaching and learning.

The other concern with ESF is that, while the current tuition fees and capital levies are lower (tuition around 15% less roughly, and very small non-refundable capital levy as compared to CAIS), one wonders where ESF is heading with their fees and capital levy as their subsidies from the government runs out, I believe stopping in 2016.  In the long run, doesn't every private school have to raise funds in some way?  If ESF's subsidies run out, how much will they have to raise tuition and capital levies in order to balance their books?

ritz_ng

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Good point. I'm not sure but you may have a better idea, as both Vivian and me have another kids, going forward there is still risk for CAIS to increase debenture. But of course this risk applied to both CAIS and ESF, so level off :)

Random dad, for the Chinese learning, do you know if CAIS has any plan to extend the traditional Chinese learning for higher grade in the future? thanks a lot.

random_dad

ritz_ng 發表於 15-2-4 11:03
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Good point. I'm not sure but you may have a better idea, as both Vivian and  ...

The way i see it, the difference between ESF and CAIS is that for ESF, their tuition has to go up by at least the same amount as the subsidy they were getting, whereas CAIS only needs to plan for increase in expenses.  As for the capital levy, the step CAIS is taking now ($250k -> $400k) is I think the prudent step, that they price it now properly to avoid any further increase.  For ESF, there's no clarity at all as to how their capital levy will be in the future, as personally I think it's unrealistic to leave it at the non-refundable level they have now, unless they introduce individual site capital levies as the need arises to replace the schools due to building age.

Those with more than one child (myself included) do need to worry about the affordability of the capital levy, as it gets out of reach for most very quickly.  But what alternatives are there?  IMO, CAIS has done a good job keeping the tuition low relative to other IS, through the lens of their class size, as teacher salaries are the single biggest expense in running a school.  I don't think I can think of another IS that has a class size of 21 that has a lower tuition than CAIS.

For the Chinese curriculum, traditional Chinese has been offered for the past few years.  Currently, those at Grade 4 (or 3, can't remember exactly) have had a choice of either simplified or traditional when they first joined CAIS.  As the student moves up in grade, they've extended the traditional Chinese program to those grades, so that if you start with traditional, you should be able to continue in traditional Chinese until graduation.  So, if you are joining at Preparatory or Grade 1 for 2015-2016, then there should be traditional Chinese for the entire study period at CAIS; it's only those that are joining for Grade 6 and up for 2015-2016 that will not have a traditional option and only simplified.

vivian-chy

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Thanks for your detailed reply, truly appreciate. We dropped the offer finally, but I'm sure CAIS is a good school, just not suitable for our family at the moment.... Blessing to you and kid.

ritz_ng

原帖由 vivian-chy 於 15-02-05 發表
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Thanks for your detailed reply, truly appreciate. We dropped the offer final ...

Thanks Vivian. So u decided to take esf?

lisapizza

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Is it a must to buy debenture for CAIS?

Ruth0329

At the interview, school principal said only ~30% to 40% of the students can purchase the debenture (transferable) the rest need to pay an annual levy which is almost $40000  (non refundable).

lisapizza

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40000 annual per kidThat means 80000 for two kids annually, right?

Ruth0329

Should be ... Not heard of any sibling discount re annual levy...

random_dad

lisapizza 發表於 15-2-8 16:53
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Is it a must to buy debenture for CAIS?

No, not a must buy.  Once the new school is built, you will need to have one of:

- a CCN (Corporate Capital Note)
- an ICN (Individual Capital Note)
- an ICC (Individual Capital Certificate)
- or pay the annual levy.

The CCN is for purchase by corporations and the director/employee's children qualify.  The ICN is for parents to purchase, the ICC is for siblings.  I don't know if the CCN's are available yet.  The ICN's are what everyone is referring to in this forum, that the last round (cutoff Jan 2015 for purchase, for those already enrolled August 2014) was $250k, and that the next round is expected to be $400k, and referred to in the FAQ's to parents as anticipated to be not less than $400k.  The annual levy is estimated to be 10% of the then-current ICNs, so expected to be $40k per year.

random_dad

Ruth0329 發表於 15-2-8 18:36
At the interview, school principal said only ~30% to 40% of the students can purchase the debenture  ...

I'm not saying that what the school principal said is not accurate, but personally I have questions in my mind...

They have been saying all along the capital notes are in limited supply, but I kind of wonder...  Even at $400k (which the first 2 batches CLEARLY was not), $400k x 1600 expected capacity x 0.35 = $224m.  That is nowhere near what it cost to build the new school, maybe only as much as 1/3 to 1/2 of the total costs.  Now the KTAC (church body behind CAIS) may be providing some funding, but what rationale is there that they would rather have money from KTAC vs money from parents via ICNs?  Why would they raise it from $250k to $400k if they weren't in need for more money for the school?  If they weren't pressed for funding and had originally intended for 30-40% of students having ICNs, then couldn't they have just extended it to 60-70% to make up the shortfall instead of raising it to $400k and making everyone (that didn't buy in round 1 or 2) unhappy?

random_dad

vivian-chy 發表於 15-2-5 23:34
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Thanks for your detailed reply, truly appreciate. We dropped the offer final ...

No worries.  Happy to share.

ESF (the other school you mentioned you were considering) isn't a bad choice either, and many in this city would envy your position, having been offered such a choice.

At the end of the day, the capital note issue is one that has been a deal breaker, both for those considering entering, as well as those that are already in the system and chose not to purchase the ICN during the first two rounds.

lisapizza

So once the new school is built, we need to pay 40000 annually ?