關於英基的質疑（來自英基家長）

elmostoney

我有幾位親友孩子都在ESF, 有幾個剛畢業兩年, 另外有幾個讀緊upper secondary.  就係早幾日, 讀緊upper primary的其中一個先講緊, 其中一科理科, 個老師HEA到爆, 一堂用左一半講笑同D無謂野, 所以呢科佢變相要自修, 幸好佢本身都係一個committed 的孩子, 識得緊張.  

我完全明白nintendo所講, 因為已畢業的親友中, 其中一年, 佢同埋友好的同學都係好勤力, 有D係又SMART又勤力, 佢地就係nintendo口中考到IB 40以上, 甚至滿分個班 (我都見過呢幾個朋友仔), 入港大讀醫, 去oxbridge讀law.  What they achieved didn't come from happy learning and no practice/work.  They were always doing study groups and stuff from what I saw.  但同時我亦要指出, 我都識得超HEA嘅學生, 入左物學校我就唔講.

What is there to expect from a teacher?  I went to a public high school for 5 years in N. America where my parents didn't pay a single dime.  I found EVERY single one of my teachers performing - teaching in class, answering questions, serious about tests and attendance - and homework was expected to be turned in (信不信由你, 今年開學時, 我地有個BRIEFING,  學校話HW照比, 但你可以唔交! 係開中名義講).  There was never really a "hea" moment so-to-speak.   Teachers were assigned to teach the proper subject at a suitable level of their ability.  Granted -  some teachers might be more fun and grabbed the students' attention more, while others were a bit monotonous.  Some might be tougher, while others were more relaxed.  BUT I never encountered a case described by my relative when the teacher spends 1/2 the class time doing anything except class-related activities.  Every class I took, I did learn and was challenged.  Isn't it what education is about?  Isn't this what we should expect from teachers?

And I absolutely disagree about the fact that I should have known what I was getting my child into, so therefore, I should not complain.  Even upon entering marriage, one would disagree and argue with the other half.  One could not have known all aspects until committed.  As I pointed out, I am disillusioned in many ways, and I am thinking of possible exits which takes time.  On the other hand, if I decided to let him stay, I am considering what I can do for him.  我對小學的要求只係英文同數學打好根基, and looking at the way things are progressing, I doubt it is achievable.  I just want to take this opportunity to alert parents who are considering 英基.  It's not as rosy as some diehard supporters claim.  Try to step back and look at it again.

samsam123321

其實都是這麼說，如果個學生係唔勤力，無論你擺佢係邊間名校都是一樣不會有好成績。不如問一問，點解在同一個教學環境下，有人做得到英文，數學都好。夠竟係學校的問題，小朋友的問題，定家長的問題？

macdullbaby

原帖由 samsam123321 於 14-11-11 發表
其實都是這麼說，如果個學生係唔勤力，無論你擺佢係邊間名校都是一樣不會有好成績。不如問一問，點解在同一 ...

同意。每一位學生都有交學費，梗要老師在堂上花額外時間俾跟唔上既同學，咁對一些一學就明既學生也不見得公平。
如果係都要將個責任推比老師，就自己放學留下來，問問老師有沒有額外時間再教多一次。

hkparent

原帖由 macdullbaby 於 14-11-11 發表
同意。每一位學生都有交學費，梗要老師在堂上花額外時間俾跟唔上既同學，咁對一些一學就明既學生也不見得公 ...

As an outsider, I tend to agree to what Nineto and a few other parents said about the weak foundation in ESF primary. My child's IS is not like that.

elmostoney

hkparent 發表於 14-11-11 23:15
As an outsider, I tend to agree to what Nineto and a few other parents said about the weak foundatio ...

I think happy learning and work can co-exist.  they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

猪猪侠

All ESF students Y3-Y6 participated in the International Schools Assessment (ISA). The results might give everyone more insight.

猪猪侠

The assessment was held last month.

elmostoney

點解? 有時都要問下學校同老師.

我個仔唔係物野資優生, 但我知佢去到邊個位.  因為以前佢讀montessori到入y1為止, 再加上本身有d興趣, 所以數底幾好. 上次見家長, 老師同我講, 佢rounding numbers唔識, ok. 唔緊要, 我唔要求學校一定教識每個學生, 自己返去同佢做下都唔係問題.  我嘅驚人發現係, 我用5分鐘教我個仔已明, 達到學校呢個unit要求5位數要rounding的要求.  我見學校話如教到7位rounding就係exceed expectation, 佢既已明左, 有時間咪自己教埋. 我用左15分鐘, 佢基本上已ok, 係要練下.  唔練始終我唔知佢有幾明, 於是每日我比八至十題rounding佢做, 一星期做5日, 我覺得好合理. 佢做呢d 題目, 其實都係三五分鐘.

如果我同阿仔講5分鐘佢能明白, 達到呢個 unit 的平均要求, 而班上已教左一段時間, 我真係冇法諗得明, 點解老師教左一輪, 佢都唔明?  因為相同地, 我個女老師都係話佢rounding唔得, 我教佢, 我好理解老師點解話佢唔得, 因為我自已都用左兩個半鐘去教佢! 仲要攞哂我成套montessori 道具出來!而我個仔, 真係係紙上寫幾個數字, 講幾分鐘野就攪掂.  一個強烈對比下, 我唔明, 起碼呢個concept對我個仔來講唔難grasp, 究竟上課點教?

And I definitely agree with Nintendo.  I remember my daughter's Y2 teacher advised me that math is a subject that benefits from practice.  I have put my kids on some math hw 4 to 5 times a week.  Nothing much.  Sometimes from workbook, and sometimes I make up my own according to what they are learning in class or their level. Just 15 minutes a day.   My son actually enjoys math.  My daughter doesn't, and I can't fanthom how she would do without this practice.  

They still have plenty of time to play, so I don't see the problem at all.  I think happy learning also needs a certain balance of work and the understanding that one doesn't just get to do whatever is to your own liking all the time.  My daughter doesn't like Chinese, but I can't let her get out of it.  Freedom without responsibility is not what I want to instill in my kids.

Artie

Radiomama 發表於 14-11-11 19:41
其實我也好想知道如何為中學做準備。

從前有個想法以為IGCSE 比IBMYP更能為中學生打基礎，但慢慢又好像不 ...

Doing MYP would definitely be a better preparation for DP. I do not agree with what some people said, saying IGCSE is better. The content of IGCSE is too easy as a preparation for DP. MYP at our school is structured to help students prepare for DP. At our school, there are assessments, tests and exams. So I do believe students do benefit from the challenging curriculum. I will PM you regarding the few cases of switching from MYP to IGCSE.

Choisumwong

回覆 猪猪侠 的帖子

So called ISA can not give you true picture of your children because it depends on the samples of comparison. As parents, we want to know whether their skills are suitable among the peers in similar environment like in Hong Kong. It is meaningless to compare with those in other less developed countries or rural areas. Don't be fooled by the word "international". I guess the result will make most parents happy with their kids's progress and skills in ESF !

Artie

elmostoney 發表於 14-11-11 23:54
I think happy learning and work can co-exist.  they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

As a parent with older children (one in university one in year 11), I think this pretty much sums up what I want to say too.

Artie

samsam123321 發表於 14-11-11 20:28
其實都是這麼說，如果個學生係唔勤力，無論你擺佢係邊間名校都是一樣不會有好成績。不如問一問，點解在同一 ...

I think someone answered you already: No pain, no gain. All students that do well with DP are those that work hard.

Actually, you may be surprised. But a lot of kids do enjoy working and enjoy challenge. I have been a parent helper/volunteer when my kids were in primary school. I have met so many kids that actually enjoy being asked to do difficult tasks and enjoy teachers challenging them. My kids, at some point in primary school, enjoyed working on multiplication exercise. I think kids do enjoy making achievements. When they finish a piece of task, they can actually feel happy about it because they know they can actually get things done.

In secondary school, a lot of students form study groups on their own to study and prepare for tests. My son enjoy studying with his friends after school preparing for a test. Not all students enjoy playing all the time. Studying and working can be fun if you have good attitude.

I think it is out dated to presume no work no homework is the ideal dream life of children. Not all children enjoy playing all the time. Some children enjoy work and can benefit from an appropriate amount of homework.

oooray

回覆 猪猪侠 的帖子

As a parent, I do not find any relation between the ISA score the child achieved and the teaching quality of particular school or teacher.

soright

其實讀任何學校，家長都係小朋友的老師，唔係交曬比學校。'

bebemuimui

My question is why the parents are so picky on esf. I have accepted the fact that though hk is a part of China, which means it is hard for to find well qualified (with heart?gosh!) is teachers,We are paying the lowest school fee among the peer and why should we expect that the teaching quality is the highest ? U can always have an option to revert back to local school stream or move to other schools like cis, sis or German Swiss, which charge high.

As a parent, I have spent much my spare time in helping our kid do some exercises day by day. If u find the school is not challenging your daughter, u should step forward and think about the solutions. At the end of the day, it is the family, not the school responsible for the growth of the kid.

QC is famous for low teaching quality, but the students perform very well in the exam. I am happy to say I like this approach as I always did the self study.
讀書要講書緣同自己的努力,無謂執著學校。
去老麥想食米芝蓮一星？
不如教個仔煮或俾多D去第二間？
但係,你個仔條腸吸收到嗎？

ESF吸引之處係平,較貴族學校平民同規模大。

紅紅

原帖由 elmostoney 於 14-11-11 發表
本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 14-11-11 20:15 編輯

我有幾位親友孩子都在ESF, 有幾個剛畢業兩年, 另外有幾 ...

我相信很多人把“愉快學習”和“放任學習”混淆了。愉快學習的教學方式不是等於hea住教，如果esf(或其他is, ls)老師真的太hea, 當然不能接受。另外係hea亦不等於愉快，太hea學生會覺得無趣，悶，甚至對學習提不起興趣，哪來愉快學習？

HKTHK

回覆 samsam123321 的帖子

"遠高於平均的公開試成績"?  Are you comparing ESF's IB results with global or HK average?

elmostoney

我有朋友兩個都係esf, 講到天上有地下無, 你以為香港冇is比esf更好.  佢個仔咪又補中, 又補英.  所以平學費所慳的 $ 可拎去補習.  而且我非常唔明, 點解人人都話esf最平, 因為esf有 subsidy, 所以家長out of pocket可能係比其他 IS 比少左學費, 但你加返subsidy 上去, 網上某article話新生冇subsidy要比多23%, 咁小學即係要成$9000/月.  記住係30人一班, $9000, 即一班收入係 $270,000.  有d學校可能係20人/一班, 當$10,000/月, 一班先net $200,000. 有d貴d嘅, 可能$12,000 ~ $14,000, but when you look at the picture, they have lesser students.  The income netted from the class is still less or about the same as a 30-student class at ESF.  Where did the money go?  My question is - is it being spent wisely?  Remember - apart from DC (I don't know about RC), unlike other IS - I wouldn't say all, but many probably had to fund the construction of their own building - ESF bears no loan for the school building.