KGV英婦教中文

bobbycheung

May I add one last point?  A lot of the kids in ESF are doing IBDP.  IBDP requires a student to do 2 languages.  The First Language is usually English.  There are kids studying Chinese as the Second Language.  Sub-standard or poor Chinese teaching would affect the results of these kids.  Shouldn't parents say "no" to it?   Is it too high an expectation despite what's said in ESF's Chinese Curriculum and Annual Report etc.?  If sub-standard or poor Chinese teaching at ESF should be accepted as the norm, then would it be different when it comes to French and Spanish (which are also quite popular as the Second Language choice in IBDP)?  Should ESF parents also accept sub-standard or poor teaching in these 2 languages too?   If this is really what to expect of the school, I wouldn't say the school is doing its job properly.

FattyDaddy

HKTHK 發表於 12-5-4 01:11
Do you think it is beneficial or essential for kids in HK to learn Chinese?

Since this is a different discussion, we can exchange a little more.

I do think it is both beneficial and essential for kids to learn Chinese if they are likely to spend a major part of their lives in the Greater China area.

Having said that, there are different types of children in international schools:-

(1) Children of foreign visitors to Hongkong

(2) Children of Hongkongers who are also foreign citizens

(3) Children of local Hongkongers

For most children in group (1) and some in group (2), knowing Chinese is perhaps a "nice to have" more than an essential skill, because this part of the world may just be their temporary home.

william9_2003

Bow 發表於 12-5-4 01:09
個老師系教Foreign Language pathway, 以過來人的身份教, 應該好D掛.
蘋果斷章取意, 嘩眾取寵... 講到中文,, 就算系大陸, 香港, 台灣, 星加波都有吾同啦...
個老師吾系中國人, 又太後生做亞head, 有人吾抵得, 益哂蘋果有新聞造. ...

唔關中文唔同事, 係有家長向蘋果舉報個 英婦所製作既教材所用語法語句好有問題,係用Google翻譯 出黎,連 港大中文系教授都指出 份教材好有問題 , 再加上佢教錯中文,竟然將 battery 解作電視,所以家長擔心絕對有道理
何況英國大學所謂既東方研究或中文相關學科 所學既中文都只係屬於基礎程度,而且佢去北京留學只係短短一年,中文水平仲未足夠, 佢之前係英國教中文就話可以暪天過海,  係香港.....稍為有中文基礎既學生/父母都可以捉到佢中文錯處,莫講話做中文科主任

HKTHK 發表於 12-5-4 01:11
Agree that we should put a stop to this.  Pointless to keep going on and on.  Let's switch gear a bit.  Do you think it is beneficial or essential for kids in HK to learn Chinese?

依加全球愈來愈重視亞洲/中國市場,留學生/移民左去西方國家既人好多都回流,係香港,中國,台灣發展,再聯絡歐美,做中間人,咁你覺得唔重要嗎???

講真,如果老師教錯法文,意大利文,日文 或者仲有得賴 招聘人才問題 , 但教錯中文就無得抵賴

beeman18

FattyDaddy 發表於 12-5-4 00:19
International schools themselves are an out-sourced alternative to the local education system, and m ...

Many parents  are reasonable people, and (put some aside)  many education institutions are giving the best they know how. If there are short-comings, these institutions will do the best to overcome or even exceed them.  Parents are not expecting these institutions to defend, but rather to work to improve it.  That is the obligation, that is the responsibility, and that is because they are professionals, who play a big role in educating our children.

I do not see ESF as an out-source, but rather a major player in HK.  I have faith in them to improve if there are short-comings and i believe they will not  provide so-call sub-standard education.

On the other note,  heard it from the grapevine about the salary, and is really a "nice to have" for a lot of people in HK. Great salary comes with great responsibility.

FD, interesting comment below, and now i can see where you are coming from.

nintendo

記得當年在加拿大中學時要學法文，第一堂被分到 "初級組"，老師是俄羅斯人，後來都試跟過法裔老師，但加拿大法文，始終被法國佬批評為不正宗，情形就如美國人，話知你祖先係來自英國定意大利，你滿口美國英文，就會被評為冇文化。我地呢 d ，學了幾年法文，覺得學識日常生活用，都好開心，理佢係唔係正宗，反正去法國時，用得著，又冇比人笑就算。
讀完書，愛上日本文化，又走去學日文，學了多年，跟過華人老師，日本人老師，學得耐，又開始知，完來關西人講野同關東唔同，識了一些大阪人，佢地講野好粗魯。
學語文，好多人都唔會知老師掂唔掂，唔好講得遠，你叫我教小朋友講普通話，我掂架，尤其如果小朋友和家長都唔識普通話，我教得唔好，你鬼知。
去教鬼妹鬼仔普通話，真係易過乜，教錯你又唔知，讀得唔標準你又唔知。
即係點解香港學生，由三歲學英文，學了十幾年都可以咁差，就係因為老師唔掂，但有幾多人覺得香港人學英文一定要 100% 英國人？比個澳洲鬼你，個個當係寶。係 d 傳統名校先有本事，請 d  英文水平高的老師，先能夠叫做英文好 d。咁你話老師水平係唔係好重要。
esf  呢個 case，如果係小朋友學的係法文，講真，又真係鬼知個老師叻唔叻，小朋友唔識，家長又多數唔識，小朋友學了兩三堂，學識講 bonjour，"今晚打老虎"，亞媽即刻覺得個仔好叻。
好衰唔衰，今次係學中文，又好衰唔衰，個家長識中文，d 教材比家長睇到好差。呢件事曝光，我即刻叫個仔比佢去學日文的 notes 比我睇下，話晒我學過下，識得分有冇錯，睇過冇問題，一身鬆晒。
好意外有人話 esf  老師中文爛係冇問題。嘩，大佬，你理我係學中文定法文，總之教錯就唔可以。鬼婆老師唔係問題，問題係佢話 battery 係 "電視"，連基本字詞都唔識，點教？
唔好將 esf 應唔應該教中文拉入黎講，其實個問題套落去法文德文都一樣。
老師本身水平唔夠，先係問題重點。
其實呢度個幾個為 esf  辯護的，都好似冇仔女在 esf  讀中學，唔明點解比 d 真係有仔女讀緊 esf 中學的重盲目。我希望你地記住你地講過乜，如果有一天你仔女去 esf  中學讀，而個老師教 d 法文德文或日文錯漏百出，你唔好投訴。

HKTHK

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

Agree with you on this.  Learning Mandarin is both beneficial and essential and I would say probably for all of group 2 and 3.  Reminds me of learning English when I was young.  Everyone has to learn English and that is encouraged both in school and by parents.  Not being able to communicate in English is like the death knell to getting into good universities or finding a good job.  Nowadays, it is both English and Mandarin.  
English instruction back then was pretty terrible though.  Not quite KGV-like but generally a pretty low standard.

kcvtsai

I'm sorry, but why does going to an international school automatically makes learning Chinese or any subjects (besides English) as sub-standard is acceptable?  Where is the logic in that?  In particular, when the things taught are WRONG!

Going to any educational institute means you learn things properly.... not wrongly...

Fatrara

If I did not hear it wrong, the teacher in question is a niece of the principal of KGV.  Students and parents of KGV are actually very frustrated by this.  They are now putting pressure to amend this.  I hope we can support them.

It is absolutely stupid of the ESF management would allow this to happen while they are fighting with the government on the issue of subvention.  I guess it is like all educational institutions, most teachers, students and parents are reasonable, it is the management which is so out of touch.  

Fatrara

By the way, if I have a kid studying at ESF secondary school and paying some HK$8,000+ a month, I surely have the right to demand they put qualified teachers to teach my kid, regardless of the subjects.

annie40

回復 Mighty 的帖子

Mighty,

记得八年前, ESF 已重金礼聘当时CIS 的中文系主任Wang Xiao-ping (with impressive doctor degree in Chinese and Education ) , 担当Chinese Advise. 成立独立部门专门研究合适的教材 , 编写给ESF的学生来学习中文.  如是者过了三年, 约五年前 ESF 开始是小学高年级每天有中文课堂, 原来教材是采有SIS 的 Singapore Textbook.  根本无ESF教材这回事,    研究做足几年, 可能有几千页的保告书, 让鬼老管理层地个明白, 但看不见对学习中文有何俾益.

ESF 当然想 撹好中文, 其实全部香港的IS 都想, 因为除了成绩彪丙如GSIS 外, 有D卖点, 好多人棒场, 其它学校也明白中文优秀是推销学校的重点之一.  是客源的保证.

基本上全香港没有一间IS 有合适自己的一套教材, 全部是拿Singapore or Shanghai, Beijing 的教科书, 然后东一课, 西一课的学习, 非常缺欠连贯性. 非常努力的是ISF, 她们的老师真的是自行研制教材的, 或尽量编辑合适资料.  但听闻老师下班时间是晚上八点, 九点,. 再者他们的初小是全部中文科的, (except English).  可以很快速地掌握中国语文.

曾问讯一些学者友人, 今天大家争往学中文, 为何你们不考虑编辑中文课程给IS 孩子, 他们笑语在港的IS 孩子不超出一两万, 要编成一套教材的时间和花费太巨, 成本和效益绝不相抵, 因此是市场太细, 根本无人会投资的. 今天连美国人也赶紧学中文, 或许第一套标准的教材会由美国编印呢.

有关中文老师, IS校长是甚么也能管, 就是没能力管中文部, 校长永远唔知上中文科有几甘沈闷, 个老师有无料也不知.  唯有看IB, 和 其他公开试成绩做参考就算, 成绩好的大部分靠补习, 有人蒙混过关, 校长一定唔多觉.  

annie

Mighty

回復 annie40 的帖子

其実我投訴過比現任校長、但他是覚得没大問題。　也没大理会我説SJS的中文教得差。　我問我女的老師、如果我選択不在外捕習、以現在的進度、真的可以考IB？　老師説捕習是個別家長選択、不補考IB,是没問題的、説個個在SHATIｎ　COLLEGE都是這様考。　但有哪一位是不補習的？　毎一位老師都是５時前散BAND,点会有時間編集課程、現在用的書、簡直是浪費時間。　１個CYCLE只写５－６個詞語、辺到可以学到中文。　如果用這様多銭養一班不太勤力的老師、倒不如如我之前所説、放棄学中文、用這些銭放在ESF専長的項目。　教師的資歴不是差的、但就是没系統、各有各做。ESF的学生要学中文、就去陸陳。　没有残体費柴中文班、毎日仲可早４５分鐘放学添。

bobbycheung

Mighty 發表於 12-5-4 17:06
回復 annie40 的帖子

其実我投訴過比現任校長、但他是覚得没大問題。　也没大理会我説SJS的中文教得差。　 ...

你提議 "放棄学中文、用這些銭放在ESF専長的項目".  有無idea這些項目是甚麼?

annie40

哗! 似乎你对ESF的中文是极度失望.  我都唔多价意IS 没中文课, 多些时间玩和干别的有效益的学习也好.  

但中文堂还是有点价值的, 上堂可以温故知新, 做得好时有老师赞赏吓, 同学仔羡慕 , 都几好. 只是去陸陳, 更加唔知学中文为物.

另外IB 的 second language, 应读物野好? 法文, 德文, 日文? 幸运地拿得六,七分 , 其语文水平还是十分肤浅的, 去到德国还是说话口质质, 没什么实际用途的

您间学校的中文老师有点虚伪, 话唔补习都得?  千期咪信佢, 我那间IS 的老师好坦白, 上中文科的学生,她们最关心的是有否私人补习, 如果无补习的学生, 几乎是保证去Group 2 和Group 3. Group one 一定你无份,   

你真有guts, 会向校长投诉, 我认识的中国家长平时私下对中文甚有意见, 但唔会话比校长知, 曾听闻officially 有整整齐齐二十个家长签名, 就有机会请走不合格的老师(或太懒惰的), 点知D家长'phew' 一声走左,.  非常怕事.

annie

WYmom

回復 Mighty 的帖子

Many students in SC do not have extra Chinese class after school in secondary school...the school's Chinese teaching is satisfactory.  More students in primary schools go to extra Chinese tutor class though.

annie40

回復 Mighty 的帖子

要投诉一定要有实际理据, 否则校长如何服众. 下次要学埋科学检举, 有凭据效果会好得多!

其实有些家长也太紧张, 曾有IS家长觉得新来的英文老师英文科教得差, 合力联名赶老师走, 最终老师走了.  家长一定觉得理直气壮, 我就觉得是有点霸道, 是有钱大洒吗?  孩子少念一年英文, 语文能力不会有大退步, 但对人却因而少了一份包容的心, 少一份温柔,  更难得到'幸福'.

Mighty

回復 WYmom 的帖子

Well my child is in P4 now and she is still pathway 2 lower level.  I cant see her future, to be honest.  I am helper her of course and she is having outside help as well.  ESF is an English school so I can understand their Chinese level will not be very high.  But its the team of teachers that is bugging me.  HEA下HEA下、早点収工。　仲差過GREEDY　PIG　DONALD　DUCK、没有做好分工(^-^).

Mighty

回復 bobbycheung 的帖子

例如、如何辯論、Or　DRAMA　CLASS也可以。　

WYmom

回復 Mighty 的帖子

I don't know SJS, my kids were all in pathway 3 in other ESF primary, after school I helped them a lot in studying traditional Chinese and they can continue in first language Chinese in secondary school.  In primary school, need to do a lot to help them to develop a solid base and interest in Chinese, if they have developed interest to read Chinese story books, watch Chinese movies etc., they have no problem in having a reasonable standard in secondary school.
SC has many levels of Chinese to suit for different standard of students.  Their teachers are good.  So don't worry.

DucklingYau

KGV 係我母校嚟架! 我看完這篇報後都搖頭嘆息... 他們的問題是在一個華人社會內 (周圍有大量合資格教中文的老師) 找一個不合格的老師教中文 (她的國籍反而不是問題核心)。如果學校有心辦中文科, 請聘請合資格的教師 - 就算大多數學生把中文作為第二語言咁學, 都不應該教學生一些文法不通的句子嘛! 七萬蚊人工係香港請到大把人教普/中啦!

講開又講, 我細個讀書時 (九X年代) 冇中文 (作為第二語言) 讀架。

annie40

回復 Mighty 的帖子

Mighty,

小四还有时间, 提议让孩子学习完整的汉语拼音和普通话课程, 普通话流利对中文写作有极大帮助, 拼音准确率高, 方便上网自学, 在班中加强自信.心,  无论ESF教得如何, 不要等, 尝试自己教或外出找帮手.

学语文跟长跑很相似, 最难是头3K, 和最后的一段, 做好开头(可以密集点), 后面便可以舒舒服服, 高中功课量不少, 到时交由老师鞭策吧!

共勉之!

annie,