two questions about studying in UK

Ruby1219

my son is now studying in international school Yr 7.
heard that if going to UK, usually either Yr 7 or Yr 9. But we prefer him to go later. Then, what's the 'best' year to join UK middle school ? Yr 10? 11? or 12?

and, what are the best middle schools for boys ? sorry i am totally ignorant about UK schools.

thanks for help in advance.

anglo-chinese

usually if possible, people choose to go Year 9 so that they can take the GCSE in UK, this has implications if you hold 居英權 so that they can qualify local fees in university (as they need to live in UK for 3 years to qualify)
if fees is not a concern than many choose to go at year 11, that's after F.5, they can go to study IB, A-Level or pre-U course or foundation. Some parents prefer that so that they can have a better chinese foundation

good middle schools for boys: Harrow, Winchester

anglo-chinese

usually if possible, people choose to go Year 9 so that they can take the GCSE in UK, this has implications if you hold 居英權 so that they can qualify local fees in university (as they need to live in UK for 3 years to qualify)
if fees is not a concern than many choose to go at year 11, that's after F.5, they can go to study IB, A-Level or pre-U course or foundation. Some parents prefer that so that they can have a better chinese foundation

good middle schools for boys: Harrow, Winchester

Ruby1219

Thank you so much for your reply.
But after F.5 should be Year 12 right? My son is not in international school following the UK system already. So, if he finishes F.5 here in HK, it should be Year 11. And he should start A-Level/IBDP in UK for Year 12-13 right?
If I target at top schools like Winchester, Harrow, etc, when should I start the application? And, shall I go through agent ?

Thanks!

anglo-chinese

after F.5 is year 12, yes. However, UK also call them Lower Sixth/Upper Sixth. I prefer calling like HK system, 5th form, 6th Form etc. easier to understand
so after F.5 he can start A-Level or IB in UK
if you target top school they only accept students in Year 9 (Form 3), You need to apply when you son is in HK local school Form 1, or age 12. I know parents even start applying in primary school to study in UK. My latest kid with me, is only 13 but study Year 9 in Winchester, because they said they will not accept if not. Start your application in Sept, they usually offer by February
Please bear in mind, HK kid is 1 year older than UK kid, because UK start schooling at the age of 5 but HK at 6. So some of the schools will say please come at to study Year 9 at the age of 13 simply because this will match the age with other local kids. of course, your son need to get into the standard as well.
going through agency is an option, but you can also apply direct to schools. Good agency will not charge you anything, and help you along. They collect their fees direct from schools. Because of immigration rules, school prefer parents to go through agency so they can help with immigration problems.

Ruby1219

Thank you v much.
My son is 11 and he is in year 7 now in GSIS. So, should be in line with the age level of UK schools.
But you mean the top schools don't accept new students after year 9? Or, very difficult to get in?
Even if we 捨得 let our son go in year 9, I heard we are already late now to apply for year9 of top school?
Also, I heard that most top schools don't do admission through agent? Maybe becos they can save the commission for
agent?

anglo-chinese

halo

in general very top schools do not accept students after Year 9. that's because all students remain and rarely have students that leave the school. Although there's some opportunity to join in Year 12 (i.e. Dulwich College), is best to join in Year 9
some top schools do use agents, mainly because of the new immigration rules, the school becomes a sponsor to the student. If the student "disappear" it is the school responsibility and might lose their sponsorship status. So using an agent helps to screen potential candidates. For HK students (especially if you have British citizenship or even HK passport) this is not a problem.
You are more than welcome to apply now. Is only January, and they just process the scholarship application. Your best chance if you want to join for Year9 is to tell them you are willing to travel to UK for the entrance exam. This will increase your chance to apply.
About going to boarding so young, I totally understand. I have moms calling me at 02:00am in HKT time to UK to speak to me because they have difficulties in letting go. We are all very used to knowing what the child is doing, and sending them to UK it becomes difficult to track.

Ruby1219

Thanks a lot : )
Would have to seriously think about it as we are really not ready to send our son away in two years' time!

dkshing

a thorought preparation is needed. there are 2 types of school, i.e. independent & state school, foreign students mostly go to independent school, (quality & reputation are better). 2 things to consider, $ & the ranking, schools with higher ranking usually are bit expensive, (not all), for eg, if your son is caterogorize as band 2, it would be difficult for him to study at a band 1 school. say for Dulwich College (a boy school), abt 10 mins from Victoria stn, very convenient. the fare is  £10,213 @term (3 terms @ yr), it is very famous, most students from HK are coming from La Salle, DBS, St. Jopheph, etc. those top band 1 schools. Its erollment exam is not easy. they have a rep in HK (Sun Hung Ki Centre, Wanchai). You can visit its website. But it is better to look for more school that most fit your son. British Council has lot of info. 1 thing, don't fully trust the agency, some are really pure $ orientated, gather more info

HKdevil

What about those state schools then, what do you think of their standings? especially state boarding. DKShing you seems very family with the uk system, could you enlighten us more?

dkshing

general speaking, state school can be said as run by govt, and independent school means private school, several years ago, the ranking only for independent school, and now the ranking is also include state schools. the top 100 schools are mostly come from independent school, but it does'nt mean state school is worse, some state schools are within top 10, but very few. talk to you later, sorry.

dkshing

state schools usually do not provide boarding facilities. students from aboard studying in state school usually have relatives or friends nearby to provide accomodation. Unless, you have friends or relatives living in a town where there is a very good state school and they are willing to act as your child guardian. Otherwise, it is much better to study in independent school. It's hard to find a school that most fit to your child as you know what we call in Ch Saying 'Buy a cow but was boarded by a hill'. So gather more info. from agencies or British Council, and particularly go to the web site of that school that you prefer enable you to a general scope of the school, ie. its, facilities, ranking, location, fare, etc.

HKdevil

回復 dkshing 的帖子

Thank you very much for the details information, I know that there are state boarding schools as well, how can I know if they are any good?

Thanks

Ruby1219

dear dkshing,

thank you so much!

so in your opinion, is it too late/no point if i send my son to UK for secondary education after Year 9 ? dulwich is really expensive, that fee you mentioned, does it include boarding fee? it's very near to london right?

any other good independent schools you would recommend?

thanks again in advance.   

dkshing

For the independent school, an authority which is the Independent Schools Council (ISC) will inspect those schools,compile and publish the inspection reports of the school. You can either visit the school or the council web site to see the report. It is very comphrensive. However, I don't know if the state schools are also have the inspection made the educational authority. U know that every school would boost how best the school. etc. (window dressing). So, ask any friends if they know abt the school, visit its web site, ask the agents, British Council has a book listed numbers of independent school of their info. 1 thing, well prepare for your child to find the one that fit him/her, it is extremely important as you will not known what will happen when your child study aboard.

dkshing

it's hard to say if it's too late that the child study after Yr 9. Before the introducation of the HKE Diploma, most HK students will study yr 10 (form 4) or yr 12 (form 6). Then, they can take GCSE/AL, if not good, can take again so as to choose the best result of that subject. But now, i am not so sure the new 334 could integrate to the UK system. So, it is best to ask the agents or British Council & sure they will provide update info. see this web site:http://www.britishunited.net/, very detailed. Dulwich College is bit expensive, the fare includes boarding, it has a very good reputation.The average fare of independent school is around £8,000 to 9,500 something @term. As far as i know, schools charge higher fare usually are higher in ranking, the no. of their students go to the top 10 UK U are greater than others. BTW, check the web site that i mentioned before, see the school fare, ranking, location, etc of individual schools.

vichuie

Just wonder if anyone could kindly give advice on St George's School for Girls in Edinburgh?  Personal experience would be very much appreciated.  Thanks!

Fate

Dear All Planning Ahead Parents,

Let me share some of my own and my friends' experiences with you.

Agent

NONE of my 3 HK friends and I hired an agent when getting our boys into our grammar schools/private schools back in 2008/09.

I applied to the school (For Year 7) directly while us in Australia back in 2009 for my elder boy - the grammar school was ranked 1st in the Times League Table in 2008 (State Schools Category - about 3,500 of them in England & Wales)

A friend applied (Year 9) Sevenoak School (Private, http://www.sevenoaksschool.org/) , the other applied (Year 10)  Colchester High School (Private, http://www.colchesterhighschool.co.uk/), and the last friend took his boy's HK Band 1 school result to a Grammar School in Slough and his boy got in Year 7!

State Schools With Boarding

There are some (though not many) State Schools provide Boarding.

In fact, one of the very top State School, Colchester Royal Grammar School (http://www.crgs.co.uk/) does offer Boarding. For more information, please visit, http://www.crgs.co.uk/the-school/boarding

Its Headteacher  recently visited HK and had dinner organised by parents of Ex-students,
http://www.crgs.co.uk/news/schoo ... l-news&start=10

For more information, please visit http://www.sbsa.org.uk/

League Tables

To have a better understanding of any school, it may be worthwhile to have a look of the latest League Table.

The UK government just published its PREFERRED School League Table on 26 January 2012, showing schools passing 5 GOOD GCSE (i.e. NOT counting 'soft, easy' subject like Media Study), please check the following links,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16729387  GCSE League Tables  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16730014  Key Stage 5 Tables

Additional Information

1)  http://www.ngsa.org.uk/faqs.php

2) There are other ways of getting into an Excellent Private School like taking its Scholarship Test (Academic or Music category), though most offer only some reduction (i.e. NOT ALL) in fee.

Some Excellent Grammar Schools also set aside certain places for those displaying Great Music Skill/Potentials. Have a read of the following story :
http://www.qebarnet.co.uk/achievements
(QEB is one of the very top Grammar Schools)
Eigo rises to the challenge

Eigo Takeda is a high-flier, even by the standards of QE: he gained straight A*s in his A-levels, won a place to read Mathematics at Cambridge and played in two national youth orchestras. Yet he spoke no English at all when he arrived in England at the age of nine and was still struggling with the language when he came to QE two years later.

His mother took the bold decision to put him forward for a place at QE. Eigo was already showing promise as a violinist, so in addition to the general entrance tests, he sat Music auditions for QE. “In Year 7, I was quite overwhelmed by the other boys: they were really competitive and intelligent, and I was in the bottom set,” Eigo says.

Slowly but surely, however, he began to advance, thanks to hard work and a positive attitude. By the time Eigo took his GCSEs, the linguistic challenges were largely overcome, as evidenced by his 11 A* grades and 2 As, including A*s in English and English Literature.

His music also advanced. He gained his Grade 8 at violin in Year 9 and his Diploma two years later, eventually winning places with both the English Schools Orchestra and National Children’s Chamber Orchestra. He also played for the school’s Symphony Orchestra, String Quartet and Camerata (strings orchestra).

Reflecting on his seven years at QE, Eigo said: “It’s an excellent school with a great environment, where everyone is so competitive and intelligent. You are pushed to work hard because you don’t want to be left behind: it’s not forced on you; you are forcing yourself.”

Good Luck to all of you - Keep Up the Hard Work!
My wife and I always remind our boys,
'All the Hard Work WILL pay off, one day!'

Cheers

Fate
Together We Build a Global Network
www.myboysmyboss.blogspot.com
www.fatesecrets.blogspot.com

Tommy

Very much appreciate Fate's sharing and useful information.  I also want to ask two questions:

Is it almost impossible to gain a Year 10 place in grammar schools?  Is it a good alternative to study in a "non-selective" Ofsted-ranked Good / Outstanding state boarding shcool?

Since 2010, British government  has been promoting "English Baccalaureate" as a performance measurement.  Is it more preferable to follow this trend if students target the top UK universities?  How about at A Level?  Students will take 3 science subjects, 3 humanity subjects, or they will do a mixed?

Many thanks
Tommy     

Fate

Hi Tommy,

Let me share with you & other parents of my OWN and my friends' experience.

1) Mission Impossible?

Your question,
'Is it almost impossible to gain a Year 10 place in grammar schools? '

The short answer to it is ,
'Yes. It is Impossible for those NOT preparing themselves, NOT planning ahead, NOT persistent enough, NOT focusing enough etc.'

Another answer to it is, (And I always say this to our boys)
'No. Everything is POSSIBLE - provided that one puts in the Time, Energy and Thought into a task.'

My OWN two examples :

a) When I applied for Internal promotion from PC to Inspector while with the (Royal) HK Police, everyone told me it was good for me to have the experience (i.e. NOONE thought I was going to make it because very very few made it like this in the past) but I made it with my First & Only attempt.

b) When I applied for my elder boy for the England's grammar school while us in OZ, my wife & I were unsure if our elder boy could pass the 11+, as he had never been exposed tothe  British Curriculum & we'd only about 3 months to help him preparing the tests. We'd selected 3 of the top 50 grammar schools in England, one of which was the ranked No.1 at the time.

I just told my boy,
'Just try your Best, the whole point is about knowing where you are at, OK.  
You may not make it this time or next time.
But as long as long one keeps trying their Best Every Time, they'll make it Over Time, OK?'

And my elder boy made it - got himself a place at the No.1 school, saving us about £15,000 a year school fee if he had to attend a private school with similar academic results/reputation.

Others examples :

Although every parent was informed of their child's secondary school allocation on 1 March, my English friend insisted waiting fora vacancy at a grammar school - she intended to home schooling her boy until someone NOT accepting the school's offer. And someone did go to another school and her child attended the grammar school a week after school starting.

I got another friend, my neighbour from HK. She flied to UK with her boy in 2007, staying in UK for 4 days only  just to take the grammar school 11+ Test. She got a taxi waiting outside the school, so that when her son finished the test, the taxi took them both to Heathrow airport right away. He is now a Year 10 student at the same grammar school as my elder boy.


My point is, Tommy, do NOT let anyone DISENCOURAGE you.
Do NOT let anyone write your boys' Future.
There is always an Exception in everything in Life.
I made it before. My friends made it before. So can you or any other parent.
.
You've to checd it YOURSELF - checking the websites of the grammar schools that you are interested in, and see if you're impressed by what they could offer first, then if interested read through their Admission procedure IN DETAILS.

So, you may wish to start visiting some of the grammar schools from the League Tables I listed above, like CRGS or for others, HB,
http://www.crgs.co.uk/the-school/admissions
http://www.hbschool.org.uk/stylesheet.asp?file=431_years_8-11

Even in my elder boy's grammar school, there was a student left at the end of his Year 9 last year, so there was a vacancy.

2) Plan B?

Your question,  
'Is it a good alternative to study in a "non-selective" Ofsted-ranked Good / Outstanding state boarding school?'

The only school I am familiar with on the Boarding School List I provided above is the CRGS (Colcehester Royal Grammar School).
But its Boarding Fee is dear - £10,000 a year and because it is a State School, you do need to be a holder of a Full UK passport.
Furthermore, there is a lot of competition in getting a place thereat, as it has one of the highest rate of getting its students into Oxbridge (about 20% of its A Level students)

If one goes for Good/Outstanding school WITHOUT Boarding, then the parent has to be prepared to pay a Premium for the house price/rental.
Because there is a HUGE demand for Excellent, Day, 'Non Grammar/Selective' School' which accepting students living in their Catchment Area, pushing up the house price/rental cost (please check the League Tables I provided above to find some good/excellent schools in this category).

3) EB/A Level Subjects?

Your question,

' Since 2010, British government  has been promoting "English Baccalaureate" as a performance measurement.  Is it more preferable to follow this trend if students target the top UK universities?  How about at A Level?  Students will take 3 science subjects, 3 humanity subjects, or they will do a mixed?'

It is essential to understand what exactly EB is. Please refer to the following link,
http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/qualifications/englishbac/a0075975/theenglishbaccalaureate

EB has indeed divided Opinions:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12160738

You can visit one of the very top schools & have a look of its curriculum (and other schools that you are interested too) to get some ideas what A Levels subjects/how many are being studied, again I use the CRGS as an example,http://www.crgs.co.uk/academic/the-curriculum

My elder boy's grammar school does offer EB, most students study 3 Relevant A Levels (i.e.Relevant to their subsequent Uni Degree Course, e.g. Biology/Chemistry for Pharmacy) + General Studies (i.e. minimum of 4 A level), with those more capable doing 5 A Levels, please refer to the following link for further information,http://www.colytongrammar.devon.sch.uk/curriculum/curric-outline/index.htm

My elder boy's grammar school had its best year in terms of students getting into Oxbridge last year : 20 out of about 102 Sixth Formers.
Please refer to the following E mail from the Headteacher.

On 26 January 2012 21:03, ParentMail <[email protected]> wrote:

National Performance Tables for KS4 and KS5 were published by the Government today.

    (26 January 2012).     At GCSE, Colyton was ranked fourth and at A level 10th Nationally.  
    We were the  top ranked, state mixed sex school in both tables.     

I am delighted to see that the hard work of students and staff has been recognised by these tables, that place Colyton at the top of rankings of state and independent schools nationally.  The sI uccess at GCSE is particularly gratifying given that students take their GCSEs at the end of Y10, a year earlier than normal.     

Of course, there's far more to a good school than that recorded in these tables, which are only a snapshot. Successful schools have happy students who are engaged in a wide range of sports, the arts and other activities.  We are keen to develop the whole person and make our students good leaders and enthusiastic independent learners.

Nearly twenty percent  of our leavers last summer started degrees at Oxbridge colleges and we are successful at supporting students to get places at competitive courses in the best Universities.
Nevertheless, it is gratifying to see the success of our young people.  We are a school where the three key elements for school success come together, enthusiastic learners, outstanding teachers and supportive parents.

If you have not yet registered and expressed your opinions of the school on the OFSTED Your School,    please visit      http://parentview.ofsted.gov.uk/login?destination=give-your-views

Paul Evans  Head teacher   

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16729387  GCSE League Tables 4th Nationally   

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16730014   Key Stage 5 Tables- 10th Nationally

4) Sharing?

My family is to return HK for a 5-week holiday in July/Aug, and may share more with some of our friends that we have known through BK over the years - some of their children are planning to study in UK in the next few years.

Good Luck.

Best wishes to every planning ahead parents - never easy to be a Responsible parent!
(May see some of you in HK when us in HK later this year)

THIS IS MY LAST INPUT FOR THE TIME BEING - I've to help our younger boy (aged 9) preparing his 11+ test scheduled this October. (He loves to join his elder brother! Year 7 is the BIGGEST intake for any grammar school)


Fate
Together We Make Things Easier
For Ourselves, For Our Children
www.myboysmyboss.blogspot.com
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