worthwhile to buy isf debenture?

HKTHK

回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

BTW, that is for CDNIS

Shrimpiggy

You can ask to confirm that the school use Clause 11 to redeem the debenture as the disapproval of the transfer from the last few years. That's why there is no more debenture tradable in the market.

HKTHK

回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

That's hardly surprising.  CIS is recalling their debentures as well.  I am still not sure what your criticisms are though.  Or have we over-debated this already?

21Ckid

I can add/clarify some of the above info:
You can buy ISF debenture in 2nd hand market by contacting club membership agencies. There are several active in HK, e.g(http://www.evergolf.com.hk/) .The current quoted price is still around $5m. I wonder if there is any transaction given the IB results and u placement for 2012 are a bit disappointing. They will handle the paper work. You still need the school to approve and re-register.

You can also fax ISF a form to be put on the waiting list. I guess they may not issue new ones until the market "catches" up.

21Ckid

Does anyone know what happens to those who purchased CIS debentures for 6 or 7 million a few years ago? If they can only redeemed it to the school, what a big loss? Would the same happen to ISF one day? i.e. if it becomes equally successful.

HKTHK

回復 21Ckid 的帖子

They recalled it at par and then will issue a new type.  Some people, think it went up to almost HK$8 mil, will face a loss.  Heard some people are refusing to send it back though.  My info was a couple months old though.  Not sure if there are any updates.

Shrimpiggy

It's a bit distorted that pricy one must be the best one.

HKTHK

回復 21Ckid 的帖子

Theoretically, it can be redeemed by the school at your purchase price.  But the risk is reduced by the gain sharing mechanism so they have less incentive to call your debenture and issue new ones.

HKTHK

回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

Hmm, I think the market doesn't share your opinion?

Shrimpiggy

Yes....so don't follow the flock of sheep...

21Ckid

回復 HKTHK 的帖子

Oh, what a shock to those holders, facing losses in millions. The worry is, if you purchase ISF notes now for 5 million and the par value of that batch was say the earlier ones at 3m, 1.6m or even those below 1 m, if ISF does so well in future like CIS, it may do the same thing and the millions are gone. No appeal as the terms do allow the school to do so. If ISF disappoints, its market value will drop or even disappear.

So, i guess this is not really an investment per se, it is game for the really rich, those who consider 5m a spare change. If 5m is something to you, just don't buy it.

21Ckid

回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

It is not easy to say whether something is worth it or not. Sometimes, precious commodities (ISF notes being the only one tradable, and with most still held by those with kids at school, supply is limited) command whatever price the buyer is willing to pay. That's why taxi licence can be sold for 7m!!!

I heard even in the heydays, not more than 2 or 3 CIS debentures were traded a year. I guess this is just not a game for people like us. With such thin trading, and i doubt if any isf notes had ever being traded at 5m, the so called market price is not very meaningful.

Shrimpiggy

It is true, the debenture liquidity is an issue thus it is not a transparent as stocks or any other investment products. For those real wealth people, they just need to  donate tens of million that their kids can secure a place without fight for the debenture. For billionaires, their fame is more than enough to make many good school to pre-empt a place for their grand children without doing anything.