港生英語能力持續「插水」語文教育政策為「罪魁禍首」

oooray

原帖由 judy 於 10-1-4 14:47 發表


我常說，香港之綜援制度好過教育志制度好多。試想想，如果政府綜援的錢用做教食堂、辦合作社、買食物。然後要受援人士到食堂吃飯，到合作社拿物資，会是怎樣之情景？

現在，全港大部分受助學童卻要到"合作社、飯堂"拿食物、物 ...

我倒不完全認同您的觀點。
先不說政府/公營機構架床疊屋的問題。
綜援制度是太過寬鬆，綜援制度是一個人道社會應提供最基本保障(那有政府[社會福利署]給你綜援金，住公屋，錢花掉，但又欠政府[房委會]租金的邏輯?)。讓待業人士搞合作社/飯堂是可取的(如何效率低但總比花掉加一個局兩個局長三個副局長四個總裁去研究研究十年好[又是架床疊屋])，當然，什麼標籤效應等等...但一個庸官當道的政府一無膽色二無魄力三無能力[即是無能政府]是不敢碰；
教育是一個富裕社會的基本權利。錢是要花的，多(助)養一群無能官僚算罷，但最痛狠是那些該管不管，(教科書問題，官/校商勾結，一拖幾十年只說句自由市場，無能為力作罷)，不該管又管的政策。(幼稚園學券是近年佳作)。
個人認同是錢跟學生走，私立/資助學校主導，政府學校為副，跟房屋政策類似。

Kanba

It seems that the current local school system is aiming at producing students who play well under this formula

"short-term memory" + "dealing with exams" => "entry to local top university"

(so bright students opt for business,medical,law & few are interested in arts/science/research; students good at written English for university study, no one cares how well they can speak, how willing they are to discuss in English).

If the objectives for primary/secondary school are followings:

- to compete with students worldwide to enter top university in US/UK/Canada..

- to be curious about knowledge, to study proactively, to enjoy reading

- to think independently, to challenge others' opinion

- to get rid of overloading homework in kid's life for other developments

then it seems that the international schools are doing their job decently. They are either private under free-market or ESF under government subsidy. Both systems are producing students on average better than the locals (except for Chinese language).

One can say that the family background of international students are better. I think they may be richer but not necessarily more supportive than the local schools'.

Why can't the EDB see anything from them?

[ 本帖最後由 Kanba 於 10-1-4 16:58 編輯 ]

Kanba

Also, there are problems in the factory to produce teachers:

- the quality of graduates
- their enthusiasm for career and kids
- the method of teaching

(I'm afraid some of to-be-English-teachers cannot pronounce the letters A-Z correctly)

Even though the factory is going to solve the above issues, who can help the large number of exisiting teachers in the schools?

The EDB is loading the teachers rather than helping them to teach better.



[ 本帖最後由 Kanba 於 10-1-4 16:36 編輯 ]

oooray

原帖由 Kanba 於 10-1-4 16:03 發表
It seems that the current local school system is aiming at producing students who play well under this formula

"short-term memory" + "dealing with exams" => "entry to local top university"

(so bri ...

"Take away your dirty hands, please!"
Is it the only message to EDB?

Kanba

原帖由 oooray 於 10-1-4 04:23 PM 發表

"Take away your dirty hands, please!"
Is it the only message to EDB?

The decision makers in the education policies are not educators in majority, right?

They are AOs/businessmen/social workers/politicians? The made stupid policies on EMI, 派位 and 通識.

[ 本帖最後由 Kanba 於 10-1-4 17:13 編輯 ]

oooray

原帖由 Kanba 於 10-1-4 16:34 發表


The decision makers in the education policies are not educators in majority, right?

They are AOs/businessmen/social workers/politicians? The made stupid policies for EMI and 通識.

One of the funniest jokes is 通識. Who is qualified to teach the subject and mark the exam. paper? The one who knows everything? Jesus? Budda? Mohammad?...

happyvalley

各位高人，你/妳們英文咁好，可否講下邊個學習楷段最重要呢！

Kanba

I learn from stccmc how to raise a little girl good at English reading:

- read with her since she was pre-school (older, get harder)

- read with her for 15 minutes every day (not take long, perhaps 1-5 kids a group)

This can be done in every kindergarten. Kindergartens are crucial to language development. Why can't they do it? Are the teachers not ready?

oooray

原帖由 Kanba 於 10-1-4 16:49 發表
I learn from stccmc how to raise a little girl good at English reading:

- read with her since she was pre-school (older, get harder)

- read with her for 15 minutes every day (not take long, perhaps  ...

Maybe ask EDB's dirty hands for a help again. 30mins reading since K1 or cut all the subisdaries.
As far as I know, most local kindergarten only have 30mins English/PTH a day. It is impossible to spare 15-30 minutes reading a day except they change their curriculum.

Kanba

The policy makers are the creatures under the local system. They know it so well and they send their children overseas (or to IS).

[ 本帖最後由 Kanba 於 10-1-4 17:21 編輯 ]

happyvalley

如果家長們呢，你/妳地細個時邊段學習過程最關鍵！

oooray

原帖由 happyvalley 於 10-1-4 17:39 發表
如果家長們呢，你/妳地細個時邊段學習過程最關鍵！

I'm a typical faillure example of local education system.
Schools (kinder/primary/secondary/tertiary) could not motivate me to learn English with fun. (or I was too lazy).
Up to now, i cannot make use of "if" clauses without refering to dictionary/internet. (Thanks to internet, i still have chance to correct my writing by myself.) I forgot everything about pharsal words.
Question tag? learnt in P.5 and forget most of them.
Grammar? Forgot everything...
Even i cannot remember what I had learnt about English during my school days
Too bad.

Kanba

reading to 1-2 children is perfect. I believe reading to 3 or 4 children (and of same age here) is not far difficult as it is common in foreign families. The teachers should be able to read these elementary books, and their ability to tell stories and discuss them is not doubtful as they do it well in Chinese. To cater a class of 20-30 kids, they may take turns while the other children are playing or reading on their own. Just a thought.

Kanba

We don't need to create a new subject liberal studies to foster critical thinking. This can be an element in history, moral, Chinese or English lessons.

通識範圍太廣，內容反而不夠扎實深入。要求模糊，各施各法，一些問題又具爭議性，評分彈性十分大。連課發展主任也承認現階段仍在摸索（剛上新聞透視看過）。

[ 本帖最後由 Kanba 於 10-1-4 23:04 編輯 ]

oooray

原帖由 stccmc 於 10-1-4 21:37 發表


Have you watched the recent TV program (新聞透視) about liberal studies (通識)?  The program said LS is more about critical thinking, rather than aiming at producing jack-of-all-trades.

http://edb. ...

LS is good to have but should not be linked with any assessment/examination.
As an assessment subject, students/parents will only focus in examination skills and hence how to achieve higher grades.
What are the criteria in grading LS exam/assessment? Grammar? Fluency? or teachers' preference?
If the first 2 are more important, it is merely another language subject.

eviepa

我在女兒尚在太太腹中時，就已經決定日後孩子會採用閱讀為本的方法去訓練，補充練習則可免則免。

十幾年前，根本沒有認識任何人的子女是用閱讀為本的方法培訓出來的。中文閱讀的成效我有個底，英文閱讀的好處我是相信的，但效果去到多少，因為沒有參考值，所以無從估計，心口掛個勇字就去馬。大方向正確，但細節怎樣行才成真的不知道，所以錯過了最佳時機，到小二才實行。（早D識stccmc 就好la）

2004年，一年之內，我囡囡由英文文盲，踴升到能讀小六閱讀理解，我覺得這是奇跡，正如oooray所講：「要現今P.6升F.1應付英中課程 ?我想能自行理解History or Geography內容一群，英語水平已可橫掃全港」，根據小女的進度推算，不要說P.6升F.1，就算是P.5升P.6時我也很有把握她可以自行理解英文教科書。在井底之中歡欣不已，渾不知井外原來有另一個世界。

及後，因為對英文閱讀極為關注，所以四處查問，終於也認識幾個用自少閱讀為本的朋友，結果發現，每個的英語程度都比小女為佳。

有了互聯網，有了BK，我可以從井底爬上地面，看看世界是怎樣。先是認識mattsmum，及後再見很多自少用英語閱讀為本的孩子的進度，還是一樣，每個都比我女兒為佳。

小弟因為相信閱讀，非常刻意地尋訪，才可以得知英文閱讀的奇效，普通人怎會知道？有正常心智的家長如果知道閱讀的奇效怎會不嚮往？我二姐的一句說話就大概可以總結普通人的看法：「如果你唔識果個字，你享書度睇到都係唔識架」。

普羅都明白，如果一個中一學生可以以半小時完成一本課堂用的reading book的閱讀能力是大超班。但如果他們知道一個在閱讀為本中不大理想的孩子 - 我女兒 - 也能做到，他們怎會不效法？唯一的解釋是他們不知道。當他們的孩子對著中一英文教科書可以應付自如，覺得家山有福，豬還神時，原來閱讀為本幾乎必定能做到。

誠然不是每個家長都有能力去kick start小朋友的英文閱讀，但為何一定要自己做？香港大部分的孩子都有補習。為何不可以用補習老師去kick start學生的閱讀？為何補習老師會偏重文法的教授？為何他們常為默書而費神？

前幾天和我剛升為中學校長的舊同學打完乓球後的傾談，其中一個話題就是他的英文科老師都很認同閱讀，準備大力鼓吹英文閱讀。我對他的建議是：

1. 向學生鼓吹是不夠的，很多學生會因為辛苦而卻步。
2. 要同時向家長解釋閱讀的重要性。
3. 解釋時，最佳方法是請幾個以閱讀為本成功的家長作現身說法，說服力會增強強。
4. 家長有能力令孩子做補充練習，為何不能令他們閱讀？唯一原因是他們不相信閱讀能做到補充練習同等功效。這觀念大錯特錯。

最後，我的同學說：「我搞這家長會時叫你出來講。」

我想，光叫我是不夠的，BK有很多高手，如果我被邀請，多叫幾個BK高手，說服力更強。

eviepa

[ 本帖最後由 eviepa 於 10-1-5 01:46 編輯 ]