IQ test for children

agoodfox

let say Welscher scale for HK children, charge HK$4,000 including 詳細書面報告  --  is it a reasonable rate?

Any information about the formats of 詳細書面報告 and 評估簡報??  

Dr.T

All qualified psychologists should do exactly the same thing. What makes the difference in price is his/her experience and whether s/he can explain the test findings clearly to you and answer your questions about what are the best ways to educate your kids.

I know some newly graduated CPs charge around $3000 (or less) for a complete HK-WISC plus detailed report. But as I said, they know little (if not nothing) about education.

Again, my advice is certainly a  biased one.

FUNGBABA

Dr. T,

希望知道我這情況是否常見？

昨日約了一私人機構做I.Q. test, 出發前亦告訴小兒(他五歲半)。原本到中心時一直很正常。他們首先在另一單位接見父母，小兒便在詢問處呆等十五分鐘。當時我還以為有職員陪伴玩遊戲或說說將曾做些甚麼。但原來只有他一人在office走來走去。他不知發生甚麼事。

當我們在另一單位回來時，專家便帶他到另一單位，我們不知安排怎樣，亦沒有機會告訴小兒。因他跟著陌生人亦沒有我陪同下，便不肯入內。後來我要求陪同入該單位，亦帶小兒入另一房間。然後我便離開中心。約十分鐘後，專家致電給我沒有辨法令小兒安定及做I. Q. Test。我再回去只見小兒亦沒法安靜，很想離開。

專家示意從來沒有小朋友不合作，他的行為亦有不正常現象。

本人很想知道I. Q Test 應該曾有不肯合作的小朋友，專家會否用其他方法配合。或是小朋友不做便算了？

小兒自升小一後，行為突然轉變。沒有自信及有失常情況。常不聽從指示，或將所有行為反常去做。當他安定下來時便能很正常答我一切。因家人及工人都說只有我在場時他才會有此表現。家人及我一直疼錫他，現在出了問題令我擔心不已。

我做I.Q Test, 一方面覺得他某方面很資優，但在失常的情況下像弱智兒童。

可否給意見？謝謝。

Dr.T

Cooperation from the child is important and for me I'll try my best to avoid negative feelings before the test, and that's why I now will see the child right away, rather than having him wait outside doing nothing. I think may be it's the 15-minute waiting that cause the trouble. The psychologist, whoever s/he is should know better than that. Moreover, may be what your child needs is not (only) an IQ test, but a comprehensive emotional assessment in relatively relaxing environment, such a fully equiped playroom.

It's not uncommon to see children have difficulty adjusting to new school. Properly there's a huge difference between the KG and the primary and your boy needs a trustable adult's support to go through this difficult period. Hope that the school counsellor is experienced enough to do that...

Also just come to my mind is that how come he's only 5.5 when he's already in P.1? Either he's in international school or he's relatively young, which could be the source of the problem.

Yes I did have children who were not cooperative but according to my memory and with my luck I have only 2 in the past 10 years. I referred them back to my counselling psychologist colleague for further emotional assessment then. I myself did not charge them at all.

agoodfox

Thanks a lot, Dr. T.!

I guess I know who you are   .  My son was enrolled in the Raven test in July.  And I have read some of your writings.  

I have been wondering whether I should take him for an IQ test since he was 6.  He's now 9.5 years old.  I stilll haven't made up my mind.  Will it do him any good if he's certified gifted after testing?  Can the child really benefit from having the test?  Any follow-up can be done?  I know the government does not have enough resources in this aspect. It all relies on the parents.

By the way, can you give me more info on the differences between 詳細書面報告 and 評估簡報??

Thanks a lot!!

Dr.T

Dear agoodfox,

I would suggest you NOT to do the Wechsler if all you want is a cert proving your child is a gifted person...the Raven test, which s/he seemed to have done, should suit you better, and much cheaper. For me, the final Wechsler score is not as important as the subtest profile (11 subtests) generated from the assessment. The child will not benefit from the test in a sense that he will definitely not be smarter   , but the parents will know more about the strengths and weaknesses about their child (through the psychologist's explanation) and which direction (in terms of learning) the child should further develop.

Both "reports" are based on the same Wechsler test and both will include all the findings. Just the more expensive one will be a detailed report which takes the psychologist hours to write. For parents who just want to know more about their kids, the simple one is enough unless they want to have an officially written document for future use. Some overseas govt will ask for the detailed report when the child applies schools there, but that's rare situation I must say.

Govt services for gifted children in HK are scarce and parents have to seek for private services. Again the reason for a comprehensive IQ test like Wechsler is for you to know more about the child, therefore it'll depend on whether you want to know that or not when you make the decision.

430穿梭機

Dear Friend

本人覺得I. Q Test 在現時已經有一點"不合時宜"，現時所講有EQ，AQ，還有MI（多元智能）！所以千萬不要單單信一次測試的結果！

小朋友自升小學後，行為突然轉變是常有聽聞！因為環境完全陌生！當然沒有自信！失常情況我相信都是一些溝通上的問題（同一個陌生人－”老師”溝通，當然失常）。
不聽從指示，或將所有行為反常去做，就要視環境因素而定案；與家人相處時發生的話，大多數是心情不佳及希望媽媽注意。但於校園發生上述情況，便有可能是想突出自己而受到關注，更可因此而使媽媽更關心！如果家人及工人都說只有媽媽在場時他才會有此表現，這個想爭取媽媽關注的情況就更明顯，不知是否媽媽近來太繁忙，突然之間與小孩見面及溝通的時間大幅減少？婚姻關係對小朋友亦有很大影響，定要多加關注！

請努力！相信你的小孩，更加要相信你自己！
每天與他相處30分鐘，會有意想不到的收穫！

Dr.T

430穿梭機 寫道:
本人覺得I. Q Test 在現時已經有一點"不合時宜"，現時所講有EQ，AQ，還有MI（多元智能）！所以千萬不要單單信一次測試的結果！

Agree and disagree.

Findings from one test can only tell you a child's performance at that particular moment of time. And for various reasons a child can react abnormally on the test day and it will depend on the examiner's skill to tap the child's real potential. Therefore discussion between the parents and examiner is important afterwards, just like any medical examination. No matter what kind of tests they still have their limitation.

Should we abandon IQ tests afterall because it is "out of date"? As I argued thousands of time before those who said so most likely is NOT a qualified psychologist. Mr. Chan, prinicipal of GT school, said similar thing weeks ago in Singtao. Coincidentally, he's not a psychologist.

IQ test results (not just final score, but the profile) can provide parents objective information of their kids and that should help them making better decision. Yet I also agree that parents' own observation is equally important. That's why I strongly discourage people doing IQ test just to get the cert. I'd rather they save the money for the child's future use.

Unfortunately at this moment none of the so-called EQ, AQ or MI concepts are properly investigated and be developed as tests, I can only rely on the traditional IQ tests (the major one, Wechsler and Stanfor-Binet).

In fact when anyone can start a EQ/MI group without a professional qualification, we should seriously consider how valid (可信性) these concepts are...

mrsphcheung

Dear Dr. T,
My son is now 4 1/2 and has language delay for about 6 to 9 months (all depends on his mood).  I plan to send him for an IQ test when he is 5 1/2 to apply for primary one.  Which test is sutiable for him?  W test or R test? Can you suggest some reliable educational psychologists to me.  You may PM to me if necessary.  Thanks.

Dr.T

Dear mrsphcheung,

First of all, if your boy's case is followed by CAC then they will/should conduct a pre-primary assessment for him later. Not necessary to pay for yourself.

Regarding Raven, if you want to use the result to help you making the decision about selecting primary school, because all you get will only be a final score then it might not be too useful.

For a 5.5 year old child, an experienced psychologist will attempt the Wechsler first. Even if the child has some difficulties answering the verbal subtests, the examiner should then try the non-verbal ones. If all attempts on Wechsler are not successful, s/he will switch to Stanford-Binet test. Raven is seldom used in clinical population as the major assessment tool. It is a screening test afterall.

Sorry I cannot give you more names of educational psychologists (EP) because according to my limited knowledge, there are only 2 of us working in the private sector. It'll be either Dr. T or Mr. P if all you want is an EP, others are all clinical psychologists.

agoodfox

Dear Dr. T,

Thanks for the advice.

But you have mistaken my words.  I didn't mean to get my child tested "in order to get a cert".  The misunderstanding might be caused by the word "certified" that I used.  I think if I used "confirmed" is better.

The previous Raven test that he took only covers the visual, spatial, logic, non-verbal part, to my knowledge, it doesn't give a full picture.  I think if he has an all-round test, such as Welscher, I can have a fuller picture of how far his potential can go.  

My previous question : "Will it do him any good if he's certified gifted after testing? Can the child really benefit from having the test?" -- I meant :

(1) If he is confirmed gifted after taking the Welscher test (which I think can give a fuller and in-depth picture than Raven), will there be more directions for the parents to develop the child's potentials, so the child can benefit from them and develop his potential to the fullest?  For example, if he's found to be excellent in the visual and spatial area, but rather weak in verbal area, does it imply "visual-spatial learning or teaching style" suits him more, so parents can help him adjust.  

Or (2) not necessary to do the test even if the child is suspected gifted? The parents need not give him any enrichments but just let him "go with the flow" - - develop "without intervention"??  Gifted persons will find their own ways?

To be or not to be  - - to test or not to test , it's the dilemma.    

Anyway, thank you again.  It's very nice of you to take time in answering parents' enquiries.

Dr.T

Dear agoodfox,

Sorry for mistaking you as you mentioned "cert" in your original post. Just I have too many parents having their children tested just for that piece of paper. It's not uncommon for kids being tested more than once within weeks/months just because the parents want to see that magic number 130. And those parents will hide the fact that the child has already been tested once from the second psychologist (which unfortunately is me...)

Yes Wechsler will certainly provide you more objective information on the child.

I personally do not think that letting the child goes with the flow is a good idea as at the end of the day parents are the one who arrange their kids' schooling. A child/teenager will not have much decision power of what they should learn till University level (may not be so in some cases.)

Dr.T

Dear stellacl,

I am surprised that the Caritas people did not explain to you what the test is. Personally I think it is unethical to give the test results to clients without explaining clearly to them what they are...

The test you mentioned is generally called PEP-R. It's not an IQ test, but a specially designed test for children with autistic related disorder. In fact I helped Heep Hong translated the whole thing and they had a Chinese version of it (自閉症兒童訓練指南). For unknown reason Caritas chose to use the original English version.

Here're are the explanation of the abbreviations:

P/E/F are for the developmental scales--
Passing-the child can complete the task without any help
E:Emerging- with some help or demonstration the child can do that
F:Failing- not successful at all in any case

A/M/S are for behaviour scales--
A:Appropriate- what the child does fit his/her age expectation
M:Mild- the child's behaviour is mildly abnormal
S:Severe- severely abnormal behaviour comparing with age peers

I don't think it's appropriate to send this report to school as no one there will understand what it is without further explanation

Might be better to wait for the CAC pre-primary assessment, if there will be one...

Dr.T

Dear stellacl,

According to my knowledge you can "buy" the IQ test report from CAC. It'll be hundreds of dollar and your boy will not need to endure the testing process again. I've seen such kind of reports before but the downside is there's no guarantee what they will write in the report.

FUNGBABA

Dr. T & 430穿梭機

多謝你們的回覆，因家中電腦剛壞了，到現在才回應。

小兒於98年12月出世，是學校的細仔。因是直資英小學校關係，課程深及全英語教學。使他仍很不習慣。亦因同學仔質素較高，形成他甚麼都比別人差。已出現沒有信心的現象。

Dr.T

小兒於98年12月出世，是學校的細仔。因是直資英小學校關係，課程深及全英語教學。使他仍很不習慣。亦因同學仔質素較高，形成他甚麼都比別人差。已出現沒有信心的現象。

Dear FUNGBABA,

Sorry to hear about that. If switching to another school is out of the question, then it might be necessary for him to identify someone whom he can trust and share his feeling and anxiety.

What our dear friend 430穿梭機 said was not wrong in this sense but parents might not be the best person to fill this role as they have a role conflict. Hopefully you can locate a counsellor, which DSS school should have one, who can help your child within the school setting. External help will only be the last resort and will be expensive.

FUNGBABA

Dear Dr. T,

I have already reported to counsellor of his school. She follows his case and meet him today. She agreed that my son has abnormal conduct when I appear. My son can trust her and hope she can share his feeling and anxiety in this time.

In fact, he is clever. He also studied in kindergarden which was difficulty and do more homework.  In early September, I thought to change the primary school. During my observation, I and my husband believe if change to another school, the question do not solved. Example, he say that it is difficulty to count 1 + 1, 1 + 2, but some time, he can calculate 7.5 + 7.5 + 7.5 = 22.5, 2.5 X 4 = 10, 5.2/2 = 2.6 or 128 + 67 +  .... , 1 to 10 add up is 55.  For his conduct, he always out of control and do not obedient. Therefore, I don't think so.  

Dr.T

Dear FUNGBABA,

Let's hope that the school counsellor can really offer some individual or group sessions to your boy. With suitable help he should be able to adjust to the new environment easier. Considering he's only started P.1 for just over a month.