有話直說 - about attitudes to education and choice of school

rigmarole

My previous thread has been hijacked.  Start again:-  


有話直說 - about attitudes to education and choice of school


There are a few things which I find difficult to hold back, and so I need to share them here.

1.   Parents are all treating themselves as customers and schools as a shop (whether primary, secondary or even University).    They demand this and that from a  school (care and love, good manners from staff, good interview arrangements, foot massage when waiting, psychiatric counselling when kids do not get in etc).  This turns teachers and principals into sort of "salespersons" to appease these parents.  Call me snobbish or old-fashioned.    You choose a school for its mission and direction of education.  If you do not like it or share its values, leave it.   No school owes you anything.  If a school can deliver the education and the values you want, go for it.  As simply as that.   Spare the b.s. about manner of staff and arrangement for interview.   

2.    Under bad American/Western influence, more and more parents appear to be (or pretend to be) open-minded and they all care about too much work/competition and they all say they want happy education, less homework, etc.  Let's face it: people thrive on competition.  Kids should learn to deal with competition and pressure.  I do not believe in "happy learning environment".     

3.   Nepotism: let's face it.  all famous schools have special spaces reserved for special people.  There is no point pretending which school is fairer (or appears to be fairer).    The examples people give are all simply based on the examples of people around them.   For one example of a "boy/girl from ordinary family" getting into a "fair school", there will be an example of a "rich but undeserving kid" getting in.     No school is entirely fair in that regard.

4.  "Your kid is so smart" etc.  I know a lot of parents say this here but this is so "false".  You've never met the guy/girl and you say he or she is smart just because, what, he or she had survived an interview, or got into 2nd interview, or accepted.  C'mon: we all know for a 5-6 yr old it is all a matter of luck.

BY THE WAY I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT INTERNATIONAL SCHOOLS

smartcar

I tend to agree...

Learn to handle pressure is part of training.  

I am almost exhausted after work however my eyes open to check my boy's homework to assure he did everthying before the next day of school.  

I always fancy the happy school .

LLT

Totally agree with you.

Can't recall how many overnight studies had I gone through before I managed to get my degree.

To me, happy learning and school life are Utopian ideals that do not exist in real life!

seec

原帖由 LLT 於 08-11-10 02:04 發表
Totally agree with you.
Can't recall how many overnight studies had I gone through before I managed to get my degree.
To me, happy learning and school life are Utopian ideals that do not exist in real ...

Will it be too cruel to make the learning environment to be a Colosseum when ours kids are still young?

Charlotte_mom

如果你讀過大學, 你都知香港傳統教學, 同大學主動求知識既分別
我自己經驗: 傳統教學, 學你話齋就係谷谷谷背背背, 教科書就係一切, 而上到大學, 至發現"學習"唔係咁一回事, 學習係要自己去睇書, 老師只係鞏固書入面既知識(唔係讀書!), 學生需要去圖書館搵書搵料, 消化左之後變成自己知識, 再用文字表達出黎
而家, 我女讀緊一間"新思維"學校, 學習方式就係咁樣, 呢d就係我理想中既活動教學, 唔係唔駛學, 唔係學唔到, 唔係無野做, 只係好多香港家長唔敢試亦無去了解過既方式吧了!

原帖由 LLT 於 08-11-10 02:04 AM 發表
Totally agree with you.
Can't recall how many overnight studies had I gone through before I managed to get my degree.
To me, happy learning and school life are Utopian ideals that do not exist in real ...

kaifu

Unfortunately, students need to get good public exam results for admission to good univeristies in HK.  So far those traditional schools are doing better in terms of "public examination-training"!

原帖由 Charlotte_mom 於 08-11-10 10:09 發表
如果你讀過大學, 你都知香港傳統教學, 同大學主動求知識既分別
我自己經驗: 傳統教學, 學你話齋就係谷谷谷背背背, 教科書就係一切, 而上到大學, 至發現"學習"唔係咁一回事, 學習係要自己去睇書, 老師只係鞏固書入面 ...

Charlotte_mom

yes, 呢個係悲哀既現實.......(做香港既小孩子真慘!)
我唔敢講呢批"新思維"學生第2時會考成點, 無人知! 不過國際學校都有狀元啦!
打個譬如, 有d名師教鋼琴, 每年就係操操操, 學生無可能唔高分, 不過學左廿年都只係彈過比賽考試歌, 咁係唔係曼好既學習態度? 對學生係好事定壞事? 相信總有家長buy的, 唔係都唔會叫"名師"啦........

flostangraphy

rigmarole (confused or meaningless talk),
no wonder why your thread has been deleted (or hijacked as you said).
from my own personal opinion:
1/ you are right that no school owes us anything. however, school is not a place that just delivers data and information of books. i'm sure not wanting my children get some careless, no love, bad manner, non organized people as examples when i know that my kids will spend half of their time at school.
2/ since you named, this "happy learning environment" should be a system which gives an environment makes children feel more comfortable, and i think this point is hard for non "open-minded" people to accept. old fashion people trend to think that children couldn't learn well without pressure and competition. these people just don't know, or misunderstood.
no matter you believe or not, i don't think that "happy learning environment" makes less homework or knowledge demand on learning. the pressure is only base on different way. children work for their own, developing what they are interested and proactive doing research and experiences by themselves. pressure is from themselves. they will learn how to be responsible of their own and build up their own confidence earlier than some traditional education. traditional education method in hong kong push pupils to do more and more and learn more and more. children just be told to learn everything by heart so they can success the exams. however, i wonder how many of them know how to use this knowledge in real life...
3/ "all"... are you sure all?! it depends on what you call "famous" is, so i can not comment it.
4/ you are right, i don't know if Your kid is so smart, but i think you are! you are right again... i'm so "false"...

有話直說 - about attitudes to education and choice of school are very personal matter, depends on the background and expectation of parents. no parent thinks their kids deserve bad things.
if you have children, what attitudes and choice you have?!
hope that i don't offence anyone!

原帖由 rigmarole 於 8/11/2008 10:08 發表
My previous thread has been hijacked.  Start again:-  


有話直說 - about attitudes to education and choice of school


There are a few things which I find difficult to hold back, and so I need to sh ...

stevema

totally agreed.  traditional and happy learning has no conflicts.  traditional but less homework, my kid got much time to explore his hobbies.  my opinion: if i want my kid to stay in China/ HK in the long run, I prefer local traditional school. i am optimistic to local kids' study performance in average when i see most of them can do very good when going to overseas unis.  all professionals have exams, chinese society screens people by exams, company selects people by exams.... not comfortable with exam environment will finally suffer. after all, i found kids can handle well both exams with good learning/ exploring attitude.

GIPW

I AM REALLY IN A DIALEMMA AND CONFUSED.

For parents who received education in Hong Kong, we are all brought up in a traditional way - teacher give and we take.  

But things and environment CHANGE.  At our time, no one (or rarely) teenage go to suicide because of school pressure.   OR　maybe at our times, things are not so competitive (I mean among primary school).  If you can get a 90 marks, you are a bright student and if you know piano, then you are super.  NOW, the kids needs to know a lot of things - piano (a basic and must know musical instrument) 90 marks in some of the top school, you ranked last in the class.    Sometimes, I just wonder if kids could take all these pressure to themselves.

I still wonder down deep in my heart - what is good to my kids.  Traditional teaching - they will come out good if they can fit into this culture ( at least with the professional exam that they take - they might not be the CEO but they might be a manager and not a messanger)  But they can't take the pressure, they might be very depress and lost interest in everything.  

New teaching method - just like the teaching method of international school.  One of my friends whose sons was in IB program went to Cambridge and London University respectively.  She told me don't push my kids so hard now.  Kids' talent is not determined by how many words they know ( I mean at this age).  Give them freedom to think (even daydream) to do what they want.  But one very important thing - learn to love reading.   But my point is are we ready to adopt this ?

One of the greatest things that parents can do for their children - believe them, turst them love, them and encourage them.  If you do not do this, nobody will.  

WE ARE SO PROUD OF YOU, CHILDREN

alwaysbear

傳統vs新思維學校
1)兩者有一定支持者
2)傳統-有一定名望做支持,新思維-創新的教學模式,以學生為主導學習者,也不錯!
3)學習與教育是長期,持續性的!有些人小學,中學根本讓時間溜走,在社會工作後才完成學位課程!

alwaysbear

30年前,根本手機都未普及,現在I-PHONE都面世!
30年前,無E-MAIL,MSN,FACEBOOK,你可以遇見30年後你的孩子是怎樣嗎?
但是不可不提,如果兩種學校教出品格良好,守禮,愛社會,都是好學校!

flostangraphy

dear GIPW,
i'm totally agree with!!
if my children come home and tell me that they are happy at school, for me it's just like they got a 90 marks at exam!

原帖由 GIPW 於 11/11/2008 22:34 發表
I AM REALLY IN A DIALEMMA AND CONFUSED.

For parents who received education in Hong Kong, we are all brought up in a traditional way - teacher give and we take.  

But things and environment CHANGE.   ...

sara

I also agree with you that children should face competition and pressure. BUT unfortunately, children cannot learn to face competition and pressure by doing overwhelming amount of homework and tests. It seems that many parents nowadays take part in checking homework and revising tests for their children. Parents may feel pressure when their children are studying in traditional school. So indeed their children cannot cannot take the initatives to learn anything.

Nowadays, children face a great problem - they don't know how to take care themselves and plan their future life as their parents do a lot for them. Their knowledge may be good BUT their life education is BAD! So some parents may put emphasis on children's thinking skills rather than the academic results. It is very very important for them to tackle any problems in their future life......

To me, I need to spare time for reading and sharing, not for checking homework and revising tests.....

flostangraphy

sara,
you enlighten me!!

原帖由 sara 於 12/11/2008 13:55 發表
I also agree with you that children should face competition and pressure. BUT unfortunately, children cannot learn to face competition and pressure by doing overwhelming amount of homework and tests.  ...

Charlotte_mom

幾星期前, 某一晚, 我放工返到屋企, 我女話"今日無帶數學簿, 老師叫我做o係紙度"
我"哦"完之後........咪住! 老師幾時叫你用紙做架? 原來我女返到屋企發現無帶簿, 主動打電話返學校俾老師, 老師叫佢用紙做, 於是, 我女用左3張紙: page 1, 畫左學校logo扮簿皮, page 2係功課, page 3係俾老師既道歉信
呢個就係我女solve problem既方式(我相信自己唔會比佢solve得更好), 就係學校平時俾既空間, 令小朋友知道錯左點去ratify, 點樣去positively面對一個問題.......就係呢d生活上既小點滴, 令我覺得我無揀錯學校

原帖由 sara 於 08-11-12 01:55 PM 發表
INowadays, children face a great problem - they don't know how to take care themselves and plan their future life as their parents do a lot for them. Their knowledge may be good BUT their life education is BAD! So some parents may put emphasis on children's thinking skills rather than the academic results. It is very very important for them to tackle any problems in their future life......

stevema

原帖由 Charlotte_mom 於 08-11-10 10:09 發表
如果你讀過大學, 你都知香港傳統教學, 同大學主動求知識既分別
我自己經驗: 傳統教學, 學你話齋就係谷谷谷背背背, 教科書就係一切, 而上到大學, 至發現"學習"唔係咁一回事, 學習係要自己去睇書, 老師只係鞏固書入面 ...

remember we sat for degree exams in old days, each subject required 3 hours writing task.  if current system doesn't require students to be screened by exams otherwise...  exams are all about training and skills,  degrees requires only research paper now? no exam? i am not sure... if positive, i feel happy for kids now.

[ 本帖最後由 stevema 於 08-11-13 01:48 編輯 ]

kaifu

I have studied in both local and US universities.   As far as I know, many university courses are still assessed by written exams and there is no "活動教學" in unversities in HK or elsewhere.   Professors in all famous universities spend most of their time on research and won't have time to improve their teaching skills.  Students need to spend time looking for references to study for the exams if they want to get good grades.  Undergraduate education still require memorization (vocabularies, rules, etc.) including medicine and science subjects.  No pain, no gain!  They certainly don't need to do homework everyday like the school kids.
In a sense, having homework and tests at young ages is helping (hopefully) the children to develop a regular and self-motivated study habit.  This may be why most HK students are able to get good grades at universities aboard.  What HK students may need to improve is their communication skills and self-confidence.        

原帖由 stevema 於 08-11-13 01:47 發表


remember we sat for degree exams in old days, each subject required 3 hours writing task.  if current system doesn't require students to be screened by exams otherwise...  exams are all about traini ...

[ 本帖最後由 kaifu 於 08-11-13 07:58 編輯 ]

sara

That's the reason why I also agree that children should face public examination. Children can face difficulties by themselves (not by parents) and use their critical thinking skills during the examination. Later, they go to work or go to date with somebody else, they need to use their presentation and communication skills to express themselves, too....
It seems that a lot of parents here has already undergone university life......For me, it makes me know that basic knowledge is a pre-requisite of all kinds of discussion and research....BUT thinking skills are essential for studying and living.....Knowledge is easy to get, but how to select, interpret and understand should be a part of life-long education which should be emphasized in our education system.....
Even you are a university graduate, you should understand that we learnt a lot for 20 years, but not all of them are useful, so we are still reading, studying and interpreting everyday.......
In the university life, I really find that communication skills are essential.....(the learning attitude is bad, please don't tell your children) A friend wanted to plagiarize a copy of homework from another student. He asked a girl (who is not major in that subject) to rewrite a piece of homework and submitted it to the lecturer. Finally the original only get Grade C but my friend get Grade A......He also said that the girl's presentation skill is very good...... So sometimes I believe that some students can have excellent skill to learn anything and they can interpret everything well....

flostangraphy

dear charlotte mom,
may i know which school your daughter is?!

原帖由 Charlotte_mom 於 12/11/2008 21:54 發表
幾星期前, 某一晚, 我放工返到屋企, 我女話"今日無帶數學簿, 老師叫我做o係紙度"
我"哦"完之後........咪住! 老師幾時叫你用紙做架? 原來我女返到屋企發現無帶簿, 主動打電話返學校俾老師, 老師叫佢用紙做, 於是, 我 ...