再論曾榮光的追蹤研究

uncleedward

原帖由 eviepa 於 09-8-11 00:10 發表
Dear all,

我弟弟在中三時，在學校是中下游，讀remedial class，成績表紅當當，平日根本不溫習，到考試前才應酬一下吧。以這情況預測，到會考時，不要說要入U，連一個full cert也有一定困難。

當時，香港仍只有兩間大學，要入U簡直就是 ...

Now I understand better. The 45 minutes was only the lower limit. Then your requirement, as your brother put it, was actually very arduous. Few clever kids would bother to revise for an hour a day on a normal school day, but it is another picture before exam time. For example, my elder daughter literally did nothing at all at home (not even schoolwork) from F1 till Christmas time before the HKCEE, but she still needed to do the last minute cramming before exams. One hour is really nothing when it came to tacking some difficult maths questions. It could have been slightly different for arts students.

Again, your brother should be an above-average kid judging from what you said. For these students, it is not uncommon for them to really start picking up academic studies only in F4 or even later. After all, secondary school education is about basic stuff. The only exception is probably languages. It normally takes longer for them to pick up. Again, you're on the right track here with your daughter.

Like you, I don't believe in blind efforts either. While I won't argue with the statement success comes from hard work, I tend to believe more in John Milton's words, "luck is the residue of design". I sincerely wish you and your daughter luck and all the best in your endeavours, although I will advise you to follow what my secondary school maths teacher often told me: 具體情况，具體分析。Besides, we often forget how stupid we were in our younger days and then underestimate our next generation.

All the best!

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 09-8-11 16:26 編輯 ]

ChiChiPaPa

原帖由 uncleedward 於 09-8-10 10:05 發表

...
For argument sake, based on the performance of Tang Hin's students in中一分班試, they are all expected to improve from B to A, but we haveanother school which has all but one student improve from B to A andthis last student improves from C to A. Then the latter school willbeat Tang Hin in 增值指標 which is a relative measurement ...

我們不必用假設的例子。我們可以用聖若瑟書院作比較。聖若瑟書院有直屬小學，所以無可避免有 Band 2 的直屬小學學生。聖若瑟書院的中英數三科的(07/08) Pre-S1 HKAT 成績分別是63.13, 82.14 和80.65，加起來是225.92。鄧顯的Pre-S1 HKAT 成績是69.2, 74.6 和 80.3。加起來是 224.1，並不比有收Band 2 的聖若瑟書院高。換句話講，鄧顯雖然全收Band 1，但對比聖若瑟書院，仍有相若的進步空間。

事實上，很多傳統名校，雖然有直屬小學，但是它們的中一入學時的編班試平均英語成績和水平仍遠比地區名校為高。

[ 本帖最後由 ChiChiPaPa 於 09-8-12 00:48 編輯 ]

judy

原帖由 ChiChiPaPa 於 09-8-12 00:39 發表


我們不必用假設的例子。我們可以用聖若瑟書院作比較。聖若瑟書院有直屬小學，所以無可避免有 Band 2 的直屬小學學生。聖若瑟書院的中英數三科的(07/08) Pre-S1 HKAT 成績分別是63.13, 82.14 和80.65，加起來是225.92。 ...

ChiChiPaPa,

你提供之數据很有趣，請問在那里可得到？

我想，聖若瑟小學band2生很難有機會升上其中學的。若有，也非常少，不影響總分。

uncleedward

原帖由 ChiChiPaPa 於 09-8-12 00:39 發表


我們不必用假設的例子。我們可以用聖若瑟書院作比較。聖若瑟書院有直屬小學，所以無可避免有 Band 2 的直屬小學學生。聖若瑟書院的中英數三科的(07/08) Pre-S1 HKAT 成績分別是63.13, 82.14 和80.65，加起來是225.92。 ...

Dear ChiChiPaPa

I was about to disappear fom the forum when I saw your post and I was about to ask the question as Judy has already done. Where did you get these data?

However, real data as used in your case do not serve to clear up the matter. What I said is just mathematical deduction based on how the 增值指標 is calculated. What I said is a school with better intakes will find it unfavorable than a school with intakes not as good as the former.

From your data, you can see the two schools have intakes of similar quality. There are three factors you have to watch out. First, as Judy pointed out, due to the ridiculous class structure of St Joseph's, there are very few band 2 students of its primary section getting admitted. Second, as the banking is area dependent, students in Wanchai in general have better academic performance than students in the New Territories. Third, if you take out English on which St Joseph's as an EMI primary school has a natural advantage which will become less dominant when the students reach F5, Tang Hin should still have better intakes academically. Let's not forget, the reason why Tang Hin beats St Joseph's in terms of 增值指標 is probably unrelated to all of these. Tang Hin is just doing a better job in coaching students for HKCEE than most schools, St Joseph's included.

If you want to do a fairer comparison of district elite schools against traditional elite schools, I suggest you try SPCS against 張祝珊. As you said, SPCS has the top 增值指標 in all subjects. Although 張祝珊 has better HKCEE overall, my guess is that its 增值指標 is lower than SPCS. Can you find this out?

We should not forget that, with 增值指標 or not, district elite schools have been surpassing  traditional elite schools in academic performance. Unless more and more of the latter follow the direct subsidy route like SPCC, DB/GS and SPCS, this trend will continue. But I personally hate to see the conversion of traditional elite schools into DSS. We are losing a legacy Hong Kong has been proud of: Hong Kong has been probably the only developed area in the world with public schools prevailing over private schools. We are also losing the social mobility thus arising from it. Without the government subsidy, 強蠻如 SPCC, DB/GS 也大概沒有胆量轉為私校。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 09-8-12 18:49 編輯 ]

ChiChiPaPa

原帖由 uncleedward 於 09-8-12 17:58 發表


....張祝珊 has better HKCEE overall...

聖保祿學校 08年整體及格率 100%
張祝珊 98.9%

聖保祿學校 08年會考英文科優良率93%
張祝珊 77.3%

ChiChiPaPa

原帖由 uncleedward 於 09-8-12 17:58 發表


Dear ChiChiPaPa

I was about to disappear fom the forum when I saw your post and I was about to ask the question as Judy has already done. Where did you get these data?

However, real data as used i ...

由於教育局不許學校公佈增值資料，我沒有聖若瑟書院最近的增值數字。但聖若瑟一直都係頂級增值的學校，相信現時的增值數字都應該是8級或9級。

2002年時，聖若瑟書院出了4名10優狀元，當時的新聞也有報導聖若瑟書院的增值情況。根據當時的報導，聖若瑟書院有4成2的科目達到頂級增值，另有3成科目接近頂級增值。

uncleedward

Dear ChiChiPaPa

Thanks for the info.

Regarding St Joseph's case, I am not surprised that it is 正增值。We can all agree academically demanding schools tend to be 正增值, whatever schools they are. But Judy may once again tease us for discussing something like 阿媽係女人.

Regarding SPCS vs CCSC, again I am not surprised at all SPCS is better in English. English is the last fort held fiercely by traditional elite schools, particularly those using English as the teaching medium in their primary sections. I don't have SPCS's data on hand, but I got the following from CCSC's website for their 2009 HKCEE results.

English (5* to 4): 80.9%
% of A to C in all subjects: 63.5%

The A to C percentage looks quite decent. It is better than those shown for all the EMIs  in the following link, again with the exception of Tang Hin.

http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/vie ... 5190&extra=page%3D2

Do you have the data on SPCS. Again I could be wrong. My impression has been based on what I read in the media and forums like BK. And I would really like to be proved wrong as I like SPCS more myself.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 09-8-14 11:50 編輯 ]

ChiChiPaPa

原帖由 uncleedward 於 09-8-13 22:05 發表
Dear ChiChiPaPa

Thanks for the info.

Regarding St Joseph's case, I am not surprised that it is 正增值。We can all agree academically demanding schools tend to be 正增值, whatever schools they are.  ...

我未有09年的數字。之前我說聖保祿學校在08年會考英文科優良率是93%。那是不正確的，應該是100%。即是全部學生的英文都是優良。每年聖保祿學校的AL和HKCEE英文科成績資料可在以下的網址找到：

http://ihouse.hkedcity.net/~sp1400/curriculum/department/eng/pubexam.htm

uncleedward

SPCS's performance was very impressive indeed.