轉為直資的英中名校「貴族化」之謎？

lawsonmoon

shadeslayer 發表於 13-8-3 12:57
如果你認為這些碩士專業學會會員犯這些低級錯誤是無所謂，你有你自由。我己說他們不是 casual 在論壇吹水， ...

enough, 我發覺好似無論乜topic,你都好似會扯到去英語教學,唔好再做post killer。人地開個post講新舊油天,你又講人地英文差過名校,搞到個post close埋。嗱,你唔好又challenge我個close點解唔加ed,放鬆D,我諗劉家傑係加拿大生活可能唔開心。

cow

Contract我好少用expire. Will expire係正確,但我多數用shall be terminated.
我唔識分乜野係高級, 乜野係低級錯誤, 我都經常錯別字. 但想問一下以下句字是否也是錯誤?

The current Licence No. ___________ will be expired on ___________.
http://www.landsd.gov.hk/mapping/en/digital_map/common/doc/smf-0108.pdf

The existing Sub CA "Hongkong Post e-Cert CA 1" that has been used to sign the Hongkong Post e-Cert and Bank-Cert ("Recognized Certificates") since 15 May 2003, will be expired on 15 May 2013
http://www.hongkongpost.gov.hk/news/press/46_text.html

(Remarks: For those QPME labels (without the date of expiry marked on the labels) issued before 1 April 2013, the validity period of the labels will be expired on 1 April 2019.
http://www.epd.gov.hk/cgi-bin/npg/qpme/whatis.pl

A registration will be expired on the date of the transitional period ends.
www.bd.gov.hk/english/forms/GN_Ba25F.pd

shadeslayer

原帖由 lawsonmoon 於 13-08-05 發表
enough, 我發覺好似無論乜topic,你都好似會扯到去英語教學,唔好再做post killer。人地開個post講新舊油天, ...

你句 enough 同邊個講？你看清楚，係邊個攞番已講完的事出來講過？

好多網友也知我對香港主流英語教育不甚滿意。

shadeslayer

原帖由 lawsonmoon 於 13-08-05 發表
enough, 我發覺好似無論乜topic,你都好似會扯到去英語教學,唔好再做post killer。人地開個post講新舊油天, ...

你句 enough 同邊個講？你看清楚，係邊個攞番已講完的事出來講過？

好多網友也知我對香港主流英語教育不甚滿意。

shadeslayer

原帖由 cow 於 13-08-05 發表
本帖最後由 cow 於 13-8-6 11:12 編輯

Contract我好少用expire. Will expire係正確,但我多數用shall be  ...

牛哥，

Expire 和 terminated 係兩個意思來的。不可互用。

正式公文都錯，所以我說是香港非常普遍的錯處，習非成是，以為人寫我寫，實啱。大家想想香港的英語教育如何。

其實大家不用信我，信字典就夠了。

cow

//Expire 和 terminated 係兩個意思來的。不可互用。
當然. 所以我話 will expire 係正確.
我想講 will be expired 是好常見的錯誤. 連政府文件都錯.

我慣用 be terminated. 但我發覺
The contract shall/will terminate.
The contract shall/will be terminated.
好似都可以用.

eviepa

響yahoo知識找來，唔知啱唔啱：

http://hk.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/question?qid=7006060700222


"The contract will expire" (means contract itself is going to expire)

or

"The contract will be expired" (means someone or something makes this contract to exapire)



They both corrected.



For example,

the contract will expire at the end of this year.



The contract will be expired based on the lawsuit.

shadeslayer

eviepa 發表於 13-8-6 22:12
響yahoo知識找來，唔知啱唔啱：

http://hk.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/question?qid=7006060700222

I would say the yahoo answer by somebody unknown is dubious.  Check a dictionary and you will find that expire is an intransitive verb.  

cow

eviepa,

will terminate, will be terminated 可能是你所講的意思, 但will be expired應該唔可以咁用.

FattyDaddy

The word following "be" could be a past participle or an adjective, e.g.:-

The orange will rot
The orange will be rotted (past participle)
The orange will be rotten (adjective)

The past participle of "expire" is "expired", so technically "the contract will be expired" is correct, but it is unnatural, and it is better to write "the contract will expire".

Not obvious? Think of the following example:-

The guest will arrive on 1/August
The guest will be arrived on 1/August  ??

cow

Although correct in tense, technically "the contract will be expired" is still incorrect. Same as "The guest will be arrived".

For example, "Have you a car" is technically correct but people usually say "Have you got a car" or "Do you have a car".

cow

把expired用作形容詞, 應該是"an expired contract" 或 "a will-be-expired contract".
"The contract will be expired" 係唔正確.

shadeslayer

原帖由 cow 於 13-08-08 發表
把expired用作形容詞, 應該是"an expired contract" 或 "a will-be-expired contract".
"The contract wil ...

The contract will be expired.

一係唔正確，一係 extremely bad style and causes distraction with the reader. 兩者在正式文件也不能接受。其實字典已教正確使用expire.  Will be expire is not one of the usages.

lawsonmoon

eviepa 發表於 13-8-6 22:12
響yahoo知識找來，唔知啱唔啱：

http://hk.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/question?qid=7006060700222

樓主冇反對離题我就答兩句咀。係美國時接觸既legal documents,兩者都有人用,冇話對不對,約定俗成。基於你地咁有興趣,我就問了公司一個美國人partner,他説兩者都有人用,在美國有一班文法“塔利班”就專用“will be expired”,論點係contract自己不會expire,係人定咗一個時間令其失效。英國人點用我就冇話語權了。
另外唔好乜都扯到什麼碩士,博士,有乜關係,你我讀過大學又畢到業既都知道,唔係搞學術既,要撈個碩士,博士有幾難！好多時,唔係搞學術既都係撈個碩士,博士title來呃吓D唔係讀過好多書而又祟拜權位既老板吧了！

eviepa

響EK都唔知見過幾多次呢D場面，睇黎好簡單既文法問題，結果幾個高手抝來抝去，公說公有理，婆說過婆有理。我英文程度所限，次次都係做乖學生，只睇唔會同人抝。

對於呢D咁入門既文法理論，我敢話全懂，如果係主動式既，就必要用 “The contract will expire.” ，如果係被動式既，就必要用 “The contract will be expired.” 。不過問題係，the contract係自己主動expire定係被人expire呢，呢D就唔係文法理論可以解釋得到。

我經常都要同客戶講述合約到期既問題，所以當我碰到呢兩個選擇：

The contract will expire.
The contract will be expired.

我就好頭痛，因為呢個唔係文法問題，而係鬼佬習慣上將佢當主動，或者被動，又或者兩者皆可既問題。

文法理論解決唔到，唯有訴諸語感。但係印象中，兩種寫法都似乎唔少人用。但係當然，我選擇其中一種，就算畀人覺得寫錯都好，由於錯既人好多，所以唔會俾人話英文唔入流。

xxxxxx   xxxxxx   xxxxxx

引申到一個問題，香港大部分人覺得，文法操得熟，寫文就會好少文法錯誤。但係實情係點，呢個小小例子就已經說明一樣野，文法係死既，一個只識文法規則既人，面對住日常千變萬化既用法，所能發揮既效果真係好有限，

shadeslayer

唔使拗架，看牛津字典（我上網看過眾多字典也一樣）。[no obj] 即 intransitive verbs. 即係無 passive voice, except expire is used to mean exhale.  Period.

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expire /ɪkˈspʌɪə♫, ɛk-/
► verb

[no obj.] (of a document, authorization, or agreement) come to the end of the period of validity: his driving licence expired.
• (of a period of time) come to an end: the three-year period has expired.
(of a person) die.
[with obj.] technical exhale (air) from the lungs.
etymology: late Middle English: from Old French expirer, from Latin exspirare ‘breathe out’, from ex- ‘out’ + spirare ‘breathe’.