聽說有人放棄 MCS 自行分配的學位

麟媽媽

其實抄寫呢樣野真係點睇呢？
我仔都係讀傳統學校的，但抄寫唔算好多。
中文生詞每個字寫三次，英文唔會抄生詞，多數抄課文一次(6行左右)。其餘科目無抄寫。
我印象中我細個抄好多次的，相對而家好似少左好多。我地有條”小一媽咪”thread，成班小一媽咪發現同小朋友溫默書都幾辛苦。記得有次我同個仔溫書串字，佢又唔記得喇，跟住我奶奶便說：「唉！而家你地讀書真辛苦！D野又深但功課又唔抄多D，一星期默兩次書，英文一默就是默幾頁，功課寫多幾次而家咪唔使記得咁辛苦喇！我都唔明寫個一、兩次點記得晒？你daddy同叔叔地以前寫好多架！我同佢三個默書使咩溫得咁辛苦…….」
抄寫其實係咪真的可幫助記住D字？英文我是用拼音教個仔串的，中文字真係靠佢自己記。而家小朋友課程深但D小朋友過眼雲煙…..唔知到我地小朋友個代大左會點？只見公司二十多歲的同事常問我：「Honest 點串呀？ / Precious點串呀？ / Deserve點解呀？」死未？！查字典都費事只識開口便問，佢地個個大學畢左業架喇！

lamba

麟媽媽,

just curious to know which universities do your 20 something colleagues come from ?

麟媽媽

lamba,
Sigh...一個浸大、一個Poly。

bau

I came across some of my colleagues who were U grad (some are even master) but terrible that they use the wrong word in their email.

You can guess from the sentence that the word is another word and I think they use the right word but spell wrong, "like bother you use border you", lauch product - lunch product. My god, really shame to have such U grad in HK.

TWMa

麟媽媽:
不如妳問問公司二十多歲的同事, 他們以前的讀書方式為何? 從小接受何種學校教育? 父母一向如何 "培育" 他們? 是因為沒抄默要求, 才導致如此, 還是抄默太多, "填" 慣了, 才導致進了大學、甚至出了社會, 也如此 "依賴"!
然後再由你開個 Topic 大家討論. 如何?

j-ma-ma

The English standard really drops a lot.  Some of my staff (who are also U graduates) writes horrible Chinese English with grammatical mistakes, structure mistakes.....in every sentence.  My P.2 girl can write better than 1 of those.
When I coach my staff, I always think why's it like that.  Is the education in HK so poor?  Will my girl be like that?

Hilary

其實我覺得，而家d學校甚至幼稚園都話學phonic、又要native English speaker教, 又有公開國際試如cambridge tests，又有好多直資學校係好事啦！
試想想，佢地大個之後，‘子彈’都多d啦！到時香港四圍子彈人才，我相信香港經濟會好好，至少外國d公司到時認為香港係人才之地，佢地都會來投資啦！
讀書壓力一定好嫁啦！睇下家長自己點面對，又懂不懂教小朋友怎樣面對。
成日都睇到邊間名校放傍有狀元，佢地個度子要打得好先得呀！都有屋村中學都有狀元，都有機會入大學，但，以我睇到既例子，佢地禮儀上、英文上真係唔夠名校出身既小朋友黎。有無聽過係MCS出黎既學生佢地既英文口音？真係唔係香港英文口音呢！
其實抄寫呢樣野真係點睇呢？
真的可幫助記住D字？
我覺得抄寫只是死記、學英文拼音至好！
香港大學畢業生考IELTS平均分是6點幾！香港學生如果想出國讀大學，如英國澳洲，在申請大學時都已經考到呢個分啦！讀醫讀law至少要７分呢。不過，近年澳洲收生都好鬆，會考幾分都收。
還有，其實我成日都聽到d家長話怕壓力大、唔想仔女讀名校小學，但又話等時一定要上英中，點解？英中無壓力嗎？
另一方要，有些家長又話一定要讀名校，話個仔店叻店叻，最後讀左一兩年就轉返普通學校，我想，到底我們家長是否真的知道自己孩子適合讀什麼學校呢？

bau

Dear Moms

I met different people with different age and different backgrounds; here is my experience that wants to share with you.

For those aged over 30 and w/ famous schools (such as Wah Yan, Kings), they can write very good and you can’t find any mistakes in their writings.

For those aged over 30 but from ordinary schools (but also U grad or even master), they can write but there are many wrong spellings or using wrong word.

For those new generations that is 20 something, U grad. Most likely, they can speak and communicate with the expatriate colleagues but their writing are not good, even cannot draft a memo or minutes. I can say that those from good schools can write better than those from ordinary schools and that’s why people are looking for those famous schools for their kids because you can find difference from them.

But for other areas, such as hard working, creative, aggressive, it depends on individual characters. Some of our colleagues from ordinary schools are very smart and also sit in high position but really weak in language.

We have no doubt that the young people now are very clever but we can’t deny that the level of the language has dropped. The elder with F7 qualification is much better that people now U grad.

judy

The English standard really drops a lot. Some of my staff (who are also U graduates) writes horrible Chinese English with grammatical mistakes, structure mistakes.....

我估其中一個原因，是學能試。那段時期，除了幾家對英語特別着紧的名校外。很多小學基本上放棄英語教育，只操學能試題目。試問，英語怎會好。

除了以上提到之大學生外，两年前，我公司請了一個中五學歷學生，25岁左右，英文很好。一問，オ知出自名校。

大學生，英語好不好，要看讀甚麼大學，更應看出自甚麽中小學。

bau

Dear Judy

Agree! One of my friends is only F5 but with very good English, she was in Marymount in Primary and True Light in Secondary. Her English is much more better than my master colleague. (But she is weak in Chinese)
She told me that comparing two schools she studied, marymount’s level was better than True Light as she found it is quite easy when she entered True Light.
Today there are so many chances to enter the university (even in HK or if have money, you can send them overseas), when all people having the same qualification, what they can compete with others are having other areas outstanding such as writing and speaking ability. That’s why we all moms want our kids to get a place in good primary and secondary schools.

麟媽媽

說英語水平，真的可要基礎打得好，中小學的確比大學來得重要。如preposition等簡單英語運用理應小學階段學會，但點解出來社會工作仲可以用錯？
bau講得無錯，八幾年畢業而家三十有多的名校畢業生，英語 - 聽、寫、講能力都高。那個年代的父母沒我們現在的緊張，生孩子比較多，又要搵食，當年我地個個自己攪掂，邊度會搵人補習，同D細路補習搵幾百蚊使下就有！出外留學亦是自己搵資料報學校，自己上領事館攪Student visa，只有訂機票同匯款到外國是父母代勞。但眼見而家中五放榜牛龜咁大仲由父母陪等成績，之後一齊去搵學校…有無攪錯？

TWMa

Hi, bau:
看完你的留言, 心中也產生一些問題, 想提出討論---
以前的名校有收生權, 可收父母在學歷、經濟等方面都較佳的學生, 加上名校本身的英文教師水平或許本已較佳, 又有父母悉心栽培做後盾, 這些條件相信都是以前 "名校" 生英文較佳的原因. 在精英制的年代, F7 學生程度超越現在的許多大學生也不足為奇.
但現在除了直資及私校有收生權, 再加上要求英文科老師要達標--- 想想看以前許許多多所謂英語教師的水平?! 社會上普遍經濟力都提高的情形下, 我很懷疑十年後的一代, 他們之間的最大分別會是什麼!--- 名校生 vs 非名校生? 還是直資、私小 vs 官、津生? or 能否獨立思辯創新自學的一群 vs ??? ..............

judy

TWMa,

應是直資、私小 vs 官、津生。

不過，名校過是有一定優勢。

TWMa

Judy:
你的發言我一向都會多看一眼的
我只是在想, 現在有那麼多的家長從小 "谷" 小朋友, 有些在我看來甚至是 "勁谷", 也有許多真的是不擇手段取分, 最後, 如願以嘗進名校的也不少, 為數不少在這樣的價值觀成長的下一代, 十年後到底 "比" 的是什麼.
又, 如此 "勁谷", 下一代的語言能力是否得到大改善

j-ma-ma

My opinion is that primary school is the place to build the strong fundation (especially language). In secondary school, students need to learn a lot of new subjects so language training will not omitted.
I agreed that active learning is happy and to some extend help the kids to learn.  But memorization of basic gramma rultes cannot be ommitted.  While the time and capacity is limited, the school need to find a good balance and no body knows whether the balance is suitable for your kids.

bau

This topic seems arise many parents’ interest, should we open any topic on it otherwise it seems not match the topic of MCS?

J-mama, you are right, it is very important in the primary as it build up the model of the kids and whether they can have good foundation is very important for their future.

以前的名校有收生權? I really don’t know it is true or not because in olden days, I remembered school (secondary) was allocated through lucky draw also but depends on the academic results of the students.

Also, I want to share some of my viewpoints in here.

In olden days, people having more than 1 child and didn’t have such a lot of money investing in them and many students worked hard on their own to get a place in good schools. We can find many high ranked government officer or well-known successfully HK people were from grassroot level because their parents taught them that they won’t get good living unless they studied hard and got a U degree, otherwise they remained poor for the whole life.

How the parents teach their children are very important as it builds the value of the child. Also, we find that the temptation in the olden days were far more less than nowadays, since the parents in that days earned just enough for the basic support for the family (because they usually had several kids), so they didn’t had extra money to buy extra materialistic things for the kids. They even had no knowledge in teaching the kids, just ask them to be more hard working and the kids will study on their own.

Today, most likely both moms and dads are working and the living condition are very good, at least have own desk or some even have their own bedroom. (we need to share the table with other 3 sisters and brothers and the table needed to clear every time when we had meals and or other use).

Parents usually use money to buy things as they think it can compensate for they have no time to look after them. Kids are usually look after by maid or grandparents. They can get anything they want as parents are willing to buy it for them but they cannot get the attention of the parents.
Also, most kids are the sole kid in the family, they are alone in the house with the maid all day and frankly speaking, maid only take care for their clothing and eating but cannot teach them. They will only spoil them as they treat the kids as their boss. Even parents nowadays spoil their kids always try to avoid make them unhappy than teaching them. (You can see some topics here criticizing teachers in teaching their kids but in olden days all moms will ask the teachers to punish their kids if they were naughty)

Parents cannot escape the responsibility and blame the gov’t only because it is their own responsibility to teach their children, if they don’t care their own kids, who care?

WYmom

bau,

Agree with you, the society and environment changes so much, now it is so common for us to use Philippines to take care of our kids, and the culture, value judgement, etc. of our kids are all effected.  Besides, there are more and more immigrants from China with kids studying here, and they have very different thinkings and may not be so educated to be able to teach their kids properly. The difference among the kids is enlarged and their standards also vary more.

So I think if we care about our kids' future, we have to find the suitable way out for them, help them develop solid background and good skills, build them with correct values, cannot count on our education system.  Really not a easy job :exclaim:  :exclaim:

Enchante

If you were I, what would you answer?

(D=my daughter, M=myself)
D: Mummy, why I have to copy the same word so many times for homework?
Ans: What is 'so many times' ? Just copy 3 or 5 times per one word and I do not think it is 'so many times', right.

M: That's a way to learn and it ensures that you won't forget in the further.

D: In other words, if I copy the word once and can remember for many years, is that mean I don't have to copy so many times then?
Ans: Of course NOT. That is your school homework and you should and have to finish it with the regulations which made by school teacher.

M: Am... you are partially right. However, teacher doesn't know who should copy once and who should copy many times. So, to make sure all students remember the word, everyone copy the word many times.

D: You better call up the teacher as it is unreasonable. If I copy each word just once, then, I can learn more words. Now, I spend so much time just to learn one word. What is the purpose of going to school? To learn or to copy?
Ans: Oh, my kid. What is reasonable or unreasonable in your mind? If one of your classmates cannot learn the words as you said, will you teach him/her untill s/he can remember those words? One more, you are studying in there and you must follow the rules/regulations of the school. You cannot break the rules/regulations in school just like we cannot break the law in Hong Kong.

M:......

WaWaMom

I think kids can adapt to a new environment easily. So, most kids can study in traditional schools. Just like the time we were. However, just to what extend your kids potential would be suppressed. Let see my daughter as example.

My daughter was transferred from an international kg to a local kg in K2.  Academically, she does very well without my assistance. ie. never do revision
or provide extra-workbook for her and she got good grades in assessment. In fact, we intentionally not to help her too much in order to see how well she can adapt. Also, she seems enjoy her schooling. However, we can tell the differences. She was so willing to express herself as her international school's teachers admired that is her strength. Once she switched to the local school, teachers complained she is talkative. From then, she changed. I won't blamed on the teacher as there is nothing wrong with her, just the teaching approach is different between local and int'l kg.

Therefore, as parents, we have to spend more affort to encourage her. So, she always comes up with rare questions at home.

Strongly agree that copying is necessary to strength our memory.  Moroever, certain amount of pressure for kids is necessary, so personally, I think examination is required. However, a question raised: is it essential to have 2 or 3 tests each week?  For instance, if your boss tests your knowledge 2-3 times per week, do you like it?

Refer to nowadays u-grad teens. If they open up a word processor or browe the web, they can easily find the right words. They just don't have the motivation finding a solution by themselves. HK schools usually emphasize on their students' grade, which is a short one. I, as an example, was assigned to the 'Arts' class even though I enjoy more in science subjects. The teachers think that I could get a better grade in HKCEE if I was in 'Arts' class. Yes, I did get good grades and promote to F.6 but I didn't enjoy at all. After finishing F.6, I studied aboard  in Science field which I enjoyed pretty much. From what I observed,  the first couple years of U life, HK students always rank on the top. However, in the last 2 years which emphasize more in analysis skill, most HK students face difficulties.  

Another issue about language ability. I have never heard any one send their kids to learn Chinese grammar. Why? Should the basic purpose in learning a language is for communication? If you heard an English native speaker expresses something in a strange way (actually a grammar mistake) but all others seems understand what he talks about. Would you say that you have a better English language foundation than him? My daughter English is not too good, but she won't feel uncomfortable speaking English to Chinese or foreigners. To her, English is a communication tool for her to make friends.

Agree that everyone should follow rules. It is hard to judge what kind of rules is reasonable. However, I don't think rules should bounce too much of our creativity. That may explain why so many Chinese go aboard and then get achievment oversea? Rule should be somehow be flexiable.

BTW, my daughter has to copy the words 10-12 times. My daughter's question is if her classmates can't remember the words, then he/she should copy many times, if not, what's the purpose for copying. Should teacher allow flexibility? If I answer Yes, my daughter may think the teacher is not flexible. If I anwer No, she may think the teacher is too harsh. Both would harm the teacher-student relationship.

My answer to my daughter was:
That's no problem if you think you learn the word by copying once. Then, the 2nd time you copy, the purpose is not to learn the word but  learn how to write it neatly, the 3rd time you copy, you can try to investigate why the word should be written in this way not the other way. Each time you copy, you can definitely find something interesting. In that way, you are learning too, right?

My daughter then smiled and kept on doing her homework without further complain.

To conclude: everything should get a balance.

Sorry for such long message.