THE公佈2023年世界大學排名,香港5校入前100名 - 教育講場

Rank: 11


	32340

224^#

發表於 22-11-29 17:21 |只看該作者

ANChan59 發表於 22-11-29 16:21
這個不是籍口！

我唔係同意大學的行為，也不是為大學找籍口，只是由一個第三者看上去，由 sociology 角度看。

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

Rank: 14


	117616

223^#

發表於 22-11-29 16:21 |只看該作者

shadeslayer 發表於 22-11-29 15:44
I think this ties in to the culture of the society.

香港地每件事都喜歡爭，排名，搶，拿著數，係我 ...

這個不是籍口！

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Rank: 11


	32340

222^#

發表於 22-11-29 15:44 |只看該作者

ANChan59 發表於 22-11-28 12:55
Chairman and board members may last max 6 years. The changing process very slow and the incoming ch ...

I think this ties in to the culture of the society.

香港地每件事都喜歡爭，排名，搶，拿著數，係我哋嘅 DNA。社會價值觀係咁，有乜辦法？

話說回頭，如果香港人性格唔係好爭，香港就唔係今日的香港。

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

Rank: 14


	117616

221^#

發表於 22-11-28 12:55 |只看該作者

shadeslayer 發表於 22-11-28 11:33
Well, chairman and board of directors aren’t always subject matter experts.

The question is whoev ...

Chairman and board members may last max 6 years. The changing process very slow and the incoming chairman may also from the board, the KPI keep going.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Rank: 11


	32340

220^#

發表於 22-11-28 11:33 |只看該作者

Well, chairman and board of directors aren’t always subject matter experts.

The question is whoever be at the board they should respect the execution branch under the CEO for their subject matter expertise.

If the board decides ranking is the most important thing for the university, then there is very little anyone can do.

But the board members and chairman also change once in a while. So the strategic priorities also change over time.

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

Rank: 14


	117616

219^#

發表於 22-11-26 13:08 |只看該作者

shadeslayer 發表於 22-11-24 11:36
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 22-11-24 11:37 編輯

當然啦，陳sir 你從學術嘅角度尋找答案，目的就係要找 ...

If that’s the general issue of academia, so UGC is doing a great job to eliminate integrity and professionalism.

If chairmen and the committee not from academics and lack of integrity and professionalism. How to uphold or enhance the educational standards?

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

poonseelai

侯爵府

Rank: 9 Rank: 9 Rank: 9


	21686

218^#

發表於 22-11-26 11:21 |只看該作者

shadeslayer 發表於 22-11-24 11:36
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 22-11-24 11:37 編輯

當然啦，陳sir 你從學術嘅角度尋找答案，目的就係要找 ...

本帖最後由 poonseelai 於 22-11-26 11:22 編輯

"Common sense and integrity don’t help you climb the ranking ladder"

so true

Rank: 11


	32340

217^#

發表於 22-11-24 11:36 |只看該作者

ANChan59 發表於 22-11-19 09:30
我的经验在硕士及博士论文，用data mining tool 做分析，係会data massage。

硕士的課题有关基建，跨越十 ...

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 22-11-24 11:37 編輯

當然啦，陳sir 你從學術嘅角度尋找答案，目的就係要找出真相。有啲大學嘅目標好單一，就係要排名高。喺唔犯規底下有啲咩蠱惑招可以出，有啲大學做得出都唔出奇。

Common sense and integrity don’t help you climb the ranking ladder.

Rank: 14


	117616

216^#

發表於 22-11-19 09:30 |只看該作者

shadeslayer 發表於 22-11-19 06:43
I am not saying these ranking is not cheating. I am saying in general statistics are so open to ad ...

我的经验在硕士及博士论文，用data mining tool 做分析，係会data massage。

硕士的課题有关基建，跨越十年八年，我用政府统计处二三十年数据，因为基数不同，我全部要用log ，run 完第一轮，得个桔。

及后发现我用的数据有leader，有lagger，我要重新考虑。我将所有数据分别做出time curve，发觉个别形态很接近，不過会推前或者移后1-3年。

我將有關聯性的數據按情況調整time period，再測試，開始見到有关连性，及后用不同SPSS的modules，有些冇乜发现，到后来终于揾到一些眉目。在模块内仍然要做不同reference frame rotations，最后找到一个我觉的statically significant又make sense嘅结果。

我当时扮演统计学家的角色，我massage data，我係因为academic curiosity 尋找一些知识，不是刻意去誤导教授及考试官，我每个对数据处理都在methodology部分詳细解释，可以在阳光下验证。

用7月份大学学生教师统计人数做师生比例，果位statistician 嘅common sense & integrity在那裏？

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Rank: 14


	117616

215^#

發表於 22-11-19 09:02 |只看該作者

shadeslayer 發表於 22-11-19 06:43
I am not saying these ranking is not cheating. I am saying in general statistics are so open to ad ...

Data is genuine, interpretations can be infinity. But what is common sense and integrity?

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Rank: 11


	32340

214^#

發表於 22-11-19 06:43 |只看該作者

ANChan59 發表於 22-11-18 14:53
Misrepresentation is cheating.

I am not saying these ranking is not cheating. I am saying in general statistics are so open to adjustments, you can almost create any results you want without technically lying. Through sampling size, sampling time, slicing and dicing data, inclusions and exclusions etc.

For example number of students, if the ranking organisation don’t define when to measure the student population the. The timing you so the sampling makes a huge difference. Are they lying or cheating by choosing the best possible timing for sampling students on university records? No. This is just one example. They might have done some real cheating. But things like these are not one of them.

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

Rank: 14


	117616

213^#

發表於 22-11-18 14:53 |只看該作者

beastiebistro 發表於 22-11-18 12:05
Semantics... Can't change a quote...

One may "interpret" the misrepresentation of data as lying. Do ...

Misrepresentation is cheating.

點評

發表於 22-11-18 15:03

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Rank: 14


	117616

212^#

發表於 22-11-18 14:26 |只看該作者

shadeslayer 發表於 22-11-18 10:42
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 22-11-18 10:48 編輯

內容有講評分和大學的 diversity values 有分歧。哈佛 ...

哥倫比亚大学、哈佛大学商学院係双第四。New York Times 在这个讲得清楚d。

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Rank: 11


	32340

211^#

發表於 22-11-18 12:14 |只看該作者

beastiebistro 發表於 22-11-18 12:05
Semantics... Can't change a quote...

One may "interpret" the misrepresentation of data as lying. Do ...

Agree it is the universities that make the ranking, not ranking makes the universities. People taking ranking too literally are doing it at their own detriment.

點評

發表於 22-11-18 12:14

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

Rank: 11


	32340

210^#

發表於 22-11-18 12:08 |只看該作者

我看排名，不會追著看，且只看看大約位置，每十個二十個，一個區間咁看可以了。

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

水晶宮

Rank: 12


	53969

209^#

發表於 22-11-18 12:05 |只看該作者

shadeslayer 發表於 22-11-18 11:58
Calling them liars is a bit unfair. They fine tune data presentation to achieve the best possible ...

Semantics... Can't change a quote...

One may "interpret" the misrepresentation of data as lying. Doesn't really matter. What I'm trying to say is that these so called "authoritative" rankings are really a bit of a joke. And top universities are top in spite of the rankings.

Rank: 11


	32340

208^#

發表於 22-11-18 11:58 |只看該作者

beastiebistro 發表於 22-11-18 11:34
真係有少少we know they're lying, they know they're lying, they know we know they're lying, we know t ...

Calling them liars is a bit unfair. They fine tune data presentation to achieve the best possible scores in the ranking.

Data is correct, it is the interpretation and data selection that give them the edge.

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

Rank: 11


	32340

207^#

發表於 22-11-18 11:37 |只看該作者

beastiebistro 發表於 22-11-18 08:44
我認為最後一段最有意思："defaulting to third-party data would be a positive change because schools ...

Yes. That is funny. If it is a positive change to use third party data and they know it, why didn’t they use third party data earlier for all universities in the ranking. Why did they wait until two major law schools quitted the ranking?

點評

發表於 22-11-18 11:39

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

水晶宮

Rank: 12


	53969

206^#

發表於 22-11-18 11:34 |只看該作者

本帖最後由 beastiebistro 於 22-11-18 12:06 編輯

ANChan59 發表於 22-11-18 09:24
因為他們有附屬顧问公司教大學manipulate 數據，這是公開的秘密！

部分評分準則係主觀成份重嘅，他們的as ...

真係有少少we know they're lying, they know they're lying, they know we know they're lying, we know they know we know they're lying, and yet they continue to lie嘅感覺...
哥倫比亞唔會因為由第4變第18而唔再係名校，反而啲由百幾嘅打入百大以為自己升晒喱。除咗啲校友自我感覺良好，就喺呃吓啲唔識嘅家長學生咁...

都話得啖笑