轉為直資的英中名校「貴族化」之謎？

samuel89

轉為直資的英中名校「貴族化」之謎？

見近來個話題甘熱鬧, 還原基本步先, 想先請教一下幾個諗極都唔明既問題,:(希望有肋解開「貴族化」之謎?)

1. 首先點解只系名校才會申請轉為直資, band3寧願被殺校都唔轉為直資甘奇????

2. 政府官津校既最大問題系咩???? 點解會攪到d名校飛身轉為直資???(重要系愈名校既轉得愈快)

3. 由家陣名校飛身轉為直資現象睇, 好明顯直資制度好過晒官津制度啦, 甘教統局不如直接取消官津制度,轉晒直資制度, 甘就肯定冇「貴族化」問題出現啦.......

shadeslayer

原帖由 lokfail 於 13-08-09 發表
本帖最後由 lokfail 於 13-8-9 07:57 編輯

It cannot be used in passive voice, except when it is used as meaning "exhale".

Lawson seems to say both forms can be used to mean the same thing, which contradicts with dictionary and millions of examples.

shadeslayer

原帖由 lokfail 於 13-08-08 發表
Examples from Dictionary.com, see examples 7 & 10

I was curious about your #7 and #10. I just checked dictionary.com and the examples are:

1. When drugs do finally expire, some gradually get weaker and eventually become inert.
2. As a good first step to regaining some measure of economic stability, they should be allowed to expire.
3. They can be fired tomorrow or whenever their contracts expire.
4. As the globe warms, many temperature-sensitive species have to adapt or expire.
5. To adjust emissions caps in the future, the allowances would expire periodically, perhaps as often as once a year.
6. It used to be that the package where you sent me your magazines had, printed on it, the date when my subscription would expire.
7. And since it apparently is set to expire end of year with no legislative action, this is a mute point now anyway.
8. No one knows what will happen when those leases expire.
9. But training does not always yield a job, and even extended unemployment benefits expire eventually.
10. Former soldiers are gradually being removed from provincial governorships, too, as their five-year terms expire.
11. Generics firms often seek to gain entry by challenging existing patents rather than by waiting for them to expire.
12. But the tax credit that has been driving its growth is about to expire.
13. The coalition could break down before the five years expire.
14. At first the wind is slow, but then as the star continues to expire the velocity increases.
15. The organisms are difficult to find and once caught usually expire before reaching the lab.
16. We were promised that the tax cuts would be allowed to expire if the the deficit returned.
17. The unborn would simply die in the womb or, if born, expire shortly after delivery.
18. It could easily be argued that these loan limits ought to expire.
19. We never want to see these acts, these provisions, expire.
20. Again, the market took off-and collapsed, when the credits were allowed to expire.
21. Yes, companies have swapped unionized workforces for universal workforces by letting jobs expire at home while hiring overseas.
22. Perhaps it's best to let the bill expire and move on to more meaningful issues.
23. Free night certificates expire six months after issuance.
24. Redemption codes expire five years after date of purchase.
25. Maybe they were hesitant at first, waiting for the gadget to break or the warranty to expire.
26. Browser cookies that never expire and cannot be removed from a computer.
27. Even worse, patents on five blockbuster drugs were about to expire, which would allow cheaper generics to flood the market.
28. The statute of limitations on bribery was to expire next week.
///////

See all 28 examples use expire in active voice sentences. None in passive voice or use as an adjective.

shadeslayer

唔使拗架，看牛津字典（我上網看過眾多字典也一樣）。[no obj] 即 intransitive verbs. 即係無 passive voice, except expire is used to mean exhale.  Period.

/////////////

expire /ɪkˈspʌɪə♫, ɛk-/
► verb

[no obj.] (of a document, authorization, or agreement) come to the end of the period of validity: his driving licence expired.
• (of a period of time) come to an end: the three-year period has expired.
(of a person) die.
[with obj.] technical exhale (air) from the lungs.
etymology: late Middle English: from Old French expirer, from Latin exspirare ‘breathe out’, from ex- ‘out’ + spirare ‘breathe’.

eviepa

響EK都唔知見過幾多次呢D場面，睇黎好簡單既文法問題，結果幾個高手抝來抝去，公說公有理，婆說過婆有理。我英文程度所限，次次都係做乖學生，只睇唔會同人抝。

對於呢D咁入門既文法理論，我敢話全懂，如果係主動式既，就必要用 “The contract will expire.” ，如果係被動式既，就必要用 “The contract will be expired.” 。不過問題係，the contract係自己主動expire定係被人expire呢，呢D就唔係文法理論可以解釋得到。

我經常都要同客戶講述合約到期既問題，所以當我碰到呢兩個選擇：

The contract will expire.
The contract will be expired.

我就好頭痛，因為呢個唔係文法問題，而係鬼佬習慣上將佢當主動，或者被動，又或者兩者皆可既問題。

文法理論解決唔到，唯有訴諸語感。但係印象中，兩種寫法都似乎唔少人用。但係當然，我選擇其中一種，就算畀人覺得寫錯都好，由於錯既人好多，所以唔會俾人話英文唔入流。

xxxxxx   xxxxxx   xxxxxx

引申到一個問題，香港大部分人覺得，文法操得熟，寫文就會好少文法錯誤。但係實情係點，呢個小小例子就已經說明一樣野，文法係死既，一個只識文法規則既人，面對住日常千變萬化既用法，所能發揮既效果真係好有限，

lawsonmoon

eviepa 發表於 13-8-6 22:12
響yahoo知識找來，唔知啱唔啱：

http://hk.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/question?qid=7006060700222

樓主冇反對離题我就答兩句咀。係美國時接觸既legal documents,兩者都有人用,冇話對不對,約定俗成。基於你地咁有興趣,我就問了公司一個美國人partner,他説兩者都有人用,在美國有一班文法“塔利班”就專用“will be expired”,論點係contract自己不會expire,係人定咗一個時間令其失效。英國人點用我就冇話語權了。
另外唔好乜都扯到什麼碩士,博士,有乜關係,你我讀過大學又畢到業既都知道,唔係搞學術既,要撈個碩士,博士有幾難！好多時,唔係搞學術既都係撈個碩士,博士title來呃吓D唔係讀過好多書而又祟拜權位既老板吧了！

shadeslayer

原帖由 cow 於 13-08-08 發表
把expired用作形容詞, 應該是"an expired contract" 或 "a will-be-expired contract".
"The contract wil ...

The contract will be expired.

一係唔正確，一係 extremely bad style and causes distraction with the reader. 兩者在正式文件也不能接受。其實字典已教正確使用expire.  Will be expire is not one of the usages.

cow

把expired用作形容詞, 應該是"an expired contract" 或 "a will-be-expired contract".
"The contract will be expired" 係唔正確.

cow

Although correct in tense, technically "the contract will be expired" is still incorrect. Same as "The guest will be arrived".

For example, "Have you a car" is technically correct but people usually say "Have you got a car" or "Do you have a car".

FattyDaddy

The word following "be" could be a past participle or an adjective, e.g.:-

The orange will rot
The orange will be rotted (past participle)
The orange will be rotten (adjective)

The past participle of "expire" is "expired", so technically "the contract will be expired" is correct, but it is unnatural, and it is better to write "the contract will expire".

Not obvious? Think of the following example:-

The guest will arrive on 1/August
The guest will be arrived on 1/August  ??

cow

eviepa,

will terminate, will be terminated 可能是你所講的意思, 但will be expired應該唔可以咁用.

shadeslayer

eviepa 發表於 13-8-6 22:12
響yahoo知識找來，唔知啱唔啱：

http://hk.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/question?qid=7006060700222

I would say the yahoo answer by somebody unknown is dubious.  Check a dictionary and you will find that expire is an intransitive verb.  

eviepa

響yahoo知識找來，唔知啱唔啱：

http://hk.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/question?qid=7006060700222


"The contract will expire" (means contract itself is going to expire)

or

"The contract will be expired" (means someone or something makes this contract to exapire)



They both corrected.



For example,

the contract will expire at the end of this year.



The contract will be expired based on the lawsuit.

cow

//Expire 和 terminated 係兩個意思來的。不可互用。
當然. 所以我話 will expire 係正確.
我想講 will be expired 是好常見的錯誤. 連政府文件都錯.

我慣用 be terminated. 但我發覺
The contract shall/will terminate.
The contract shall/will be terminated.
好似都可以用.