請教有小朋友讀ESF P1的家長

popolung

原帖由 TigerB 於 09-4-3 09:53 發表
popolung, thanks so much for your time to explain all that, you have provided me a piece of very useful information for choosing the suitable school for my boy!!!

You are welcome, good luck to you and your kid!

almom

And this can explain why their school fee are higher. And to make itself profitable (or at least break-even), you can see RC (I don't know about DC) has quite a lot of fund raising program carrying via out the year.

Totally wrong !!!!

There has been no fund raising program trying to raise money for the school. Please clarify!

There have only been fund raising for charity. For example, raising money for the Sichuan earthquake, the fire in Australia, etc. But they were all charity. Not a single cent goes to the school. And mostly, these were done by holding a school barbeque hot dog lunch, at $20 per hot dog. School cafeteria was still operating at those days and students could also still bring their own lunch. No one was not forced to pay $20 for the hot dog. There may be other charity fund raising program like walkathons. But like I said, no money goes to the school.

May I know how you got your information the we had to raise funds to support the school? And can you be more specific and state what fund raising project we did to raise money for the school to cover the costs?

so this is why they can take more Chinese Kids as long as they are capable to study in ESF, and this also explained why they interview so many applicants at a time instead of going for Cat 1 first then Cat 2.

RC does not take more Chinese kids than other ESF schools. In fact, any one is welcome to arrange for a school tour to find out. I am quite tired having to come forward to clarify each time people stated this.

Futher, the school would never reject or accept a child because of his ethnicity. RC would only admit children who have meet their criteria. If there are such kid that got admitted, it only meant that he meets what they are looking for.

Also, how can you be so authoritative in commenting that RC interviewed "so many" kids?  How many is "so many"? There are only 300+ applicants for P1, which is probably a lot fewer than most other ESF schools. Considering the fact that probably many applicants do not meet their criteria, I would not be surprised if they really needed to interview almost all applicants.

I am an RC parents and did not have the priviliege to know how things are done and what they are looking for. How can you be so sure?

While normal ESF will focus on using English as the medium of teaching, see what RC said in ESF website:

http://www.esf.edu.hk/index.aspx?nodeID=978&langNo=1

Although the College will use English as the medium for teaching and learning, the curriculum will have a very strong emphasis on Chinese language and culture. All students will study Putonghua and Standard Chinese.

So this explain why parents normally will see RC has spent more efforts in teaching Chinese, but other ESF is catching up now, as they are also moving to IB in full speed.

And see what DC said:

http://www.discovery.edu.hk/content.php?contentid=22

There will be provision for Chinese for native speakers (CNL) and for Chinese as a foreign language (CFL), including ab initio courses. All successful applicants will  need to demonstrate an aptitude for language learning.

May I know what you were trying to demonstrate?

All I can say is that RC (and DC) has curriculum very comparable to curriculum in other western countries. Students from the US, the UK, Australia, etc are happy with our curriculum.


======


I really appreciate the time you chipped in to help out parents. But I suggest that you really need to confirm your information first before spreading. Do you know that false information spread around quicker and penetrate deeper than true information. I have seen so many information that you provided were not true, and yet you have always sounded so authoritative. Sometimes, I really did not want to jump forward so quickly to correct you because some of those false information you provided were practically too trivial. But this time, about the fundraising thing is very untrue, I really need to step forward this time to correct you.

[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-4-4 14:08 編輯 ]

almom

原帖由 oooray 於 09-4-2 23:58 發表
PIS are supposed to admit 70% children whose parents have HKID;

There is a guideline that PIS are requested to take 70% children whose parents have HKID (which is not hard, and in fact many western kids at RC do have HKID).

However, it is also stated that such is just a guideline. The percentage is not binding and the PIS can make adjustment according to demand. So from what I see, RC has mainly got local students during the first year (2006/2007 school year), and now in my son's class, over 50% are non-chinese. The percentage of non-chinese or non-local kids are purely a result of "demand".

[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-4-4 15:56 編輯 ]

Wingba

Take it easy, Almon. There's no need to be so outrageous as popolung just wanted to be helpful although what she said about the fundraising activities of RC is really wrong.

All the proceeds from the fund raising activities go to different charities and the school is run by its own revenue generated from tuition fees. (Not sure if ESF has any subsidy, do you know?).

I did think of correcting popolung but seems like not necessary as no body cares. You can judge from the nil feedback generated from the allegation.

But I do agree wrong information spread more effectively than true information. Perhaps popolung should think twice before voicing out somthing S/he does not familiar with.

Have a good weekend and calm down.

almom

Thank you, Wingba, for coming forward.
I felt kind of helpless because I knew I was probably one of the few RC parents left here.
I think things are really getting out of hand.
These are no longer personal comments or views about RC. Everyone is entitled to have his own views. You can say you do not like RC, or why you think RC is not good. These are totally personal views and are absolutely fine.
But now, I am talking about totally untrue allegations. There have been lots of these allegations or information about RC. And people always talk in that authoritative tone as if they witnessed everything.
I have been with RC for almost 2 year. I have never seen any fund raising project to raise money for the school.
Sorry.
Yes I was really upset. I still am.
I think I do not fit in here.
I think I should just quit BK totally, like many others did.

[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-4-4 15:52 編輯 ]

Wingba

Dear Almon,

There are, indeed, persons trying to impose his/her views on others and be very patronizing. Just like our dear friend - edexp (or his/her other self under different alias). Why bother? Life is not just BK? I talked to Peter Kenny right after I learned that he would be leaving and he said I was really brave to let my kid study in RC as it is a brand new school.

I told him I did take the risk and I am still satisfied with my choice so far. I was attracted by RC's vision - nurturing students to have the ability to understand Jin Rong's novel and its adoption of traditional Chinese.

You may not be attracted by this as I read from your messages in other thread but RC offers different Chinese class to meet different needs. And some of the parents said they did not care whether it's simplified or traditional Chinese character, I do mind but I think it's pointless to argue with them here.

I sent two emails to Peter Kenny before the commencement of academic year 07/08 stressing the importance of using traditional Chinese when I learned that the school was a bit ambiguous on whether using traditional/simplified Chinese. To me, arguing with Peter with facts is far more important than arguing here in BK.

Some of the parents opined that if not studying in ESF Kinder it was very difficult to get in ESF primary. Of course, it is true especially when applying to 'traditional ESF schools but for PIS I still believe that kids from other kinders also have a chance.

As I have said earlier if I have another child I will still put him/her in local kinder but I will create an English speaking environment to nurture his/her proficiency. It worked with my kid before and I'm sure it will work again. Of course, you have to make more effort when applying for admittance. I can say I was the first one to submit the application form to RCHK as I saw no others followed me to enter the admin office on the first day of enrolment.

On the other hand our friend edexp was right in pointing out that your kid's Chinese proficiency could not rely on school alone. I am struggling to keep up my kid's Chinese proficiency. But I don't bother to response as whether I response or not I will continue to do it.

Being upset from time to time is okay but no need to be despair. Just take a deep breath and things will work out later.

What I want to say is there are lots of people reading BK but may not be able or may not bother to response. But from time to time they will do it when they deem necessary.

Have a nice evening.

oooray

原帖由 almom 於 09-4-4 13:27 發表


There is a guideline that PIS are requested to take 70% children whose parents have HKID (which is not hard, and in fact many western kids at RC do have HKID).

However, it is also stated that such  ...

Sorry if my message upset you.
Although I have not yet been an RC parent (i will be soon), I totally understand it is a flexible policy [I do read this guideline from PIS website, i just quote it as a difference between PIS & ESF school when being asked .Hopefully this info is still correct.)
Also, I know DC has not reached this 70% guideline but it remains their target in the future (but i believe they will do nothing on this after i have gone through their website, as you stated the result is the actual demand).
I still want to argue that:
a. 70% is not talking to any individual class but as the whole school ratio;
b. they are talking HKID holder, not Chinese (Color). U should know quite a lot of non-Chinese in Hong Kong have HKID right? Maybe your son's class has reached 70% HKID guideline and you have not noticed?
Just would like to say a few words:
a. i never think more (even 100%) chinese is a problem; we rely on how the school run, not the color of classmates or the school locations; (Some parents sharpening their head and climbing up the the mid-level/peak and feel good; MOS is remote area....more western kids=better school) sorry, I cannot agree that!
b. don't feel upset and go away. A lot of parents need true insiders information and i think u are one of a few willing to share objectively with sometimes personal comments.

popolung

原帖由 almom 於 09-4-4 13:12 發表


Totally wrong !!!!

There has been no fund raising program trying to raise money for the school. Please clarify!

There have only been fund raising for charity. For example, raising money for the Si ...

Almon, calm down. If I have provided with wrong info just point out and I will apologize, just like what I said about placement zone for Tsuen Wan is SJS but actually should be BHS. Take it easy. I have very closed relative who is studying in RC for 2+ years too. So their impression is that there is a lot of fund raising programs, though they may not know most or even all the fund being raised only goes for charity purposes.


And I found 2 news, read these lines:


http://www.renaissance.edu.hk/uploaded_files/Raffle%20letter%20with%20Chinese%5B1%5D1219708800.doc


We would like to hold a raffle as part of our efforts to raise money towards improving the RCHK community.


為了籌得更多款項改善啟新書院社區，今次賣物會將新增獎券銷售活動。

and this:

http://www.renaissance.edu.hk/uploaded_files/nov%202008%20Rapt%20Btyes1226102400.doc

Thank you to all of you who supported our last coffee morning. We sold most of our donated, second hand uniforms and raised just over $2,000 which we will be donating to the Library for the purchase of books /audio books.


So you can't be so sure that fund raising goes to charity only (unless you think raffle is not a kind of fund raising, or $2000 is nothing). Even the money may not be used for running the school, it also goes back to the school or the school community. It doesn't mean the school is poor, and most ESF do the same thing (even kinder), so to create a strong community effect inside the school, including RCHK, nothing wrong.


And I don't want to argue about whether RCHK take more Chinese kids or not that the other ESF, as there are ESF school especially this year, that will take up to 90% of foreigners, like CWBS, so many of Chinese parents are disappointed, while some other like QBS that take Cat 2 students to interview in first round. It always depends on the situation happen per year, and per region. So again nothing wrong about RCHK taking more Chinese Kids (I mean if I compare with other extreme cases), but may be the same rate as other ESF only. Are you Chinese Parents?

And what I want to "demonstrate" is, since RC & DC are PIS, they don't need to stick with the "Stupid rule" of Cat 1 / Cat 2 anymore as they don't receive annual funding from the HKSAR Gov't (I have been told by ESF staff about this, and I do verify on their official website too). Nothing wrong when the school is taking more Chinese kid, especially when you are applying the school.

Yes, you are right, student should be admiited by their abiliity, but not of their ethnicity. This is why I said RCHK is good not sticking to the Cat 1 / Cat 2 stupid rule as they don't need to, otherwise they will have to force to take more Cat 1 student even their capabilities is not as good as some Cat 2 students.

About the interview, since my kid has granted interview for both RC and CWBS so I have done very in depth research, at least about the number of applicants they have interviews in first round (I mean per school basis). So RC interviewed 350 out of 150, and CWBS has only interviewed 130 out of 120 seats. (you can call both school and verified these numbers too) So 350 is more than 130, even ratio is higher. But again, nothing wrong, and this is only a matter of their interviewing procedures. And also I think RCHK is much fair in this interview basis as they have interviewed everyone and reject students with clear reason in the letter (I knew someone who has been rejected because of immaturity) and while other ESF only interview Cat 1 student only for 1st round, and sound a bit unfair to all Cat 2 students, at least this is the feeling when they did this in the first round. Again this is about the capability but not ethnicity, like what you said.

One more thing about the Chinese teaching is, I think RC has better curriculum than other ESF, as I like it too. If I lived closer to MOS I may take RCHK than CWBS as it is hard to choose for me this year. I am now worrying how to train up my kid's Chinese now as I know I can't rely on the school if they are studying in other ESF. But as Chinese parents you should be happy about what RCHK is on teaching Chinese. And IB encourgae dual language especially mother tongue, so will be Eng + Chi for Chinese kids. What's wrong with teaching Chinese in RCHK?

You may not have reading my other post about ESF. I treat RCHK a part of ESF, not a separate school. I like a lot of things about RCHK, except it is too far away from where I am living, and the school fee is a bit expensive than other ESF ($6xxx vs $5xxx for primary school). It may have teething issue by now but as a primary kids it doesn't matter as it will be cured in few years. And since it started with IB at the very beginning, it will be one of the best IB school in town, at least within the ESF Community as other are only moving to use IB, and then the other ESF may have problems too migrating to IB.

Please point out what's wrong with what I have said, and I will apologize if necessary. But again, I am trying help out here, and try to base on what I have heard, what I have studied during my research of ESF (becuase of this year interview), and what I can find on their website.

Try not to be too sensitive, I am still keen to reply here, even 6am in the morning as I have passion about helping other people, and I will protect the name of ESF as much as you will do, and I have "demonstrated" this already in other post.

Good Morning everyone!

[ 本帖最後由 popolung 於 09-4-5 07:05 編輯 ]

almom

The 2 fund raising functions you quoted were arranged by the RAPT (ie the PTA). The RAPT is a separate entity. They have their own books and accounts. The school would not give them money and likewise, they would not give money to the school. I do not see how your quote can prove anything. All schools have PTA and there would always be some sort of fund raising functions.

Yes, I CAN BE SURE where the funds went. Because when I have doubt, I would always ask the RAPT. For each fund raising function, I always know the purpose. There have been much more fund raising functions then you have quoted and they are mostly for charity. And of course, YOU would not know because you are not an RC parent.

You are very persistent, I can see. In trying to convince people that RC need to raise money to support the operation of the school.

I really cannot find out whether it is really true that you have a friend or family that have kids at RC. And honestly, who cares? All untrue information around were said to be passed on from friends. Everyone seem to have connections of some sort when they want to make they message sound real.

But in any case, if you did have this friend or relative, he obviously spent too little time getting to know what is going on the school.

You are obviously swifting grounds all the time. Especially when you commented about RC's Chinese teaching. I am a chinese and I just love the chinese program of RC. Just wished it can be even stronger. Please do not mslead others again.

I did read some of your other messages too, so I can see your obvious intention. In some way, you are really like our other old friend. You are so keen to put forth with hidden message in your posts just to create an illusion that your child's school is better than other people's. And you both sway between stands just for the sake of arguments.

Am I too sensitive? Or are you yourself too sensitive?

almom

By the way, there is really no need to waste you time trying to dig for more information of RC.
In fact, most of the stuffs you quoted are on the school website.
To those who want to know more, many genuine RC parents can help.

May be you can concentrate your time and effort to contribute more regarding other ESF schools.
But I suggest that you still need to make sure the information you provide is true. Since your child is still not with the school and you cannot possibly know as much as the existing parents.

popolung

I have already said, it is not because the school is poor so it need to have fund-raising, other ESF always has fund raising too for diff purposes, no big deal.

I will not accuse any people or school, and I hope people won't accuse me. Why should I try to help other parents answering question everyday, even 6am in the morning?

Too sad this is happened , and I would apologize if I have said something wrong. Pls just point out, if possible, with supporting. I will apologize if necessary.

I think I will stop here with this thread. Quarreling between ESF parents is the most wrong thing we are doing here if we all said to protect the name of the school.

I think I will consider to switch to listen mode only, if I am selfish enough, as my kid has got a place in ESF already (and she is in ESF kinder now), but trying to help out is nothing wrong, and I am happy to do this if I can help other, especially those who are still worrying in getting into ESF.

Again if someone said I have providing wrong information somewhere, just say out loud and clear here. I will apologize for that. But we are merely discussing only,  放鬆D啦香港人！

[ 本帖最後由 popolung 於 09-4-5 15:43 編輯 ]

almom

I have already said, it is not because the school is poor so it need to have fund-raising, other ESF always has fund raising too for diff purposes, no big deal.

So you are swifting focus.

It is a big deal. Because, RC never had fund raising to raise money to support the running of the school, like you said.

This is what you wrote earlier:

popolung wrote: "to make itself profitable (or at least break-even), you can see RC (I don't know about DC) has quite a lot of fund raising program carrying via out the year."

The fun raising functions were not to "make ESF profitable". The money did not go to the school. The money is in the books of RAPT.

I would apologize if I have said something wrong. Pls just point out, if possible, with supporting. I will apologize if necessary.

Already did. But you kept swifting focus.

Quarreling between ESF parents is the most wrong thing

I did not intend to quarrel with anyone. If pointing out your wrongs were considered quarrel, then you might have started the whole thing.

Again if someone said I have providing wrong information somewhere, just say out loud and clear here. I will apologize for that. But we are merely discussing only,  放鬆D啦香港人！

Pointed out many times!
Still persistent in saying you have not said anything wrong, are you?

[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-4-5 15:55 編輯 ]

popolung

原帖由 popolung 於 09-4-5 06:29 發表

Even the money may not be used for running the school, it also goes back to the school or the school community. It doesn't mean the school is poor, and most ESF do the same thing (even kinder), so to create a strong community effect inside the school, including RCHK, nothing wrong.

sorry for one last time though I said I will not respond, I have mentioned in my previous post already. Of course RCHK don't need fund raising for running the school, and if someone still have the same feeling, I will apologize. May be my English is not good enough, and my apology is not good enough....

barque

I gave up the offer from ESF kinder 2 years ago and let my daughter study in St Cat,as I want my child has a better development in mother tongue and Chinese first.  

My child will study in RC this year and I think RC has potential to become a good school.

[ 本帖最後由 barque 於 09-4-6 19:23 編輯 ]

barque

According to my daughter's information, the interview was conducted on one to one basis, she had to identify the colours, shapes, alphabet. After playing the toys, the interviewer asked her other questions, such as what is your favourite colour, where do you live ? etc.

barque

English :) :) :)