如何學會兩文三語

CherylMum

Re: 如何學會兩文三語

[ 本帖最後由 CherylMum 於 09-11-17 16:55 編輯 ]

Darth

If your girl (finished P1 who loves to read a lot of English story books rather than Chinese but not very keen in studying the school textbooks) was admitted by both DGS and an IS.  How will you choose?  

If I say, I would choose an IS, would you believe me? :)

Especially in terms of future studies in HK/abroad and prospect.  I heard from many of my friends that if ones graduated from local long history schools will have more choices and easier to look for a job.  

I do not agree, whether you are talking about academic qualifications (actually, people would rather look at which university one attended, instead of which high school) or connections.

Besides, my husband said children should receive some pressure in study rather than be too "free".

I do not agree that IS is free. It is just that children are encouraged to manage their own studies, especially when they enter upper primary. Children who receive education all the way from IS kindies or lower primary are usually very motivated.

And at upper secondary, they have to take public exams too. And if the school is implementing IB, a student has to put in effort all the time since IB is an overall evaluation system in a wide variety of subjects.

阿胡

LeeTaiTai 寫道:
WYMom & other parents

If your girl (finished P1 who loves to read a lot of English story books rather than Chinese but not very keen in studying the school textbooks) was admitted by both DGS and an IS.  How will you choose?  Especially in terms of future studies in HK/abroad and prospect.  I heard from many of my friends that if ones graduated from local long history schools will have more choices and easier to look for a job.  Since I have no friends studying in DGS and cannot make a comparison.  Besides, my husband said children should receive some pressure in study rather than be too "free".

By the way, is that all DGS primary graduates can go directly to DG Secondary School?

Please be kind enough to share your opinions.  Many thanks.

     

我就會讓她上DGS直到小學畢業。DGS小學畢業，基本上中文、數學會有一個好的基礎，但英文就會比讀IS差。英文差可以在中學趕上，數學差要趕上就難很多，而中文到中學再來追就基本無機會。

不過，話說回來，讀DGS和讀IS是完全不同的兩條路。就像青菜，蘿卜，人各有所好。知道自己為子女選不同的讀書途徑的得与失，並相應地有所彌補，我相信效果會好好多。

LeeTaiTai

CherylMum, WYmom, Darth and Mr Ah Wu

Thanks v much for your opinions.  Can CherylMum tells me some more about DGJS' teaching approach?  I just noticed that it has 4 tests and 2 exams per year.  

WYmom and Mr Ah Wu also provided me special idea that let the kid finished in DGJS first and joined in IS sec schools later.  Ah Wu pointed out that the base of Chinese and Maths will be better in DGJS.  For Maths in IS primary schools, is it much more simple and the kids will learn it in a more advanced level when they go to IS sec schools?  Pls advise.

Also thanks to Darth who alerts me IS sec schools, epsecially adopting IB is not that "free".  I have spent some time in surfing the IBO net.  But still not fully understanding how it works.  I just understand that IB is a framework of teaching but not any subjects.  Darth, do you have more ideas?

You know, I am more keen to send my younger kid to IS primary because the relationship between me and my elder kid becomes very worst and the study in local school's terrible heavy workload makes my elder kid becomes bad temper and lost interest in thinking but just finished homework everyday at 11:00pm+ everynight.  Even weekend, we cannot go to anywhere including family gathering.

Sorry, my msg is too long.
    

502

Dear LeeTaiTai,

"For Maths in IS primary schools, is it much more simple and the kids will learn it in a more advanced level when they go to IS sec schools? Pls advise."

My boy is in P2 of an IS.  I can say that Maths in P1-P3 of most IS is not so difficult but rather to make it interesting to learn.

We were offered a chance to "switch" my boy back to good local elite school (not DBSPD or Co-Ed) but we turned down the offer at the end of August.  Why?  My hubby was scared that the relationship with my son will be worsen by the pressure given by school and my own temper as well.  He was afraid that it's me, not our son, will not be able to cope with it!  
  

So if you are a "demaning" mom and has reservation that your girl is not a 100% 自動波, 請三思!

Hope my personal experience won't be a biased one.

WYmom

LeeTaiTai 寫道:
CherylMum, WYmom, Darth and Mr Ah Wu

Thanks v much for your opinions.  Can CherylMum tells me some more about DGJS' teaching approach?  I just noticed that it has 4 tests and 2 exams per year.  

WYmom and Mr Ah Wu also provided me special idea that let the kid finished in DGJS first and joined in IS sec schools later.  Ah Wu pointed out that the base of Chinese and Maths will be better in DGJS.  For Maths in IS primary schools, is it much more simple and the kids will learn it in a more advanced level when they go to IS sec schools?  Pls advise.

Also thanks to Darth who alerts me IS sec schools, epsecially adopting IB is not that "free".  I have spent some time in surfing the IBO net.  But still not fully understanding how it works.  I just understand that IB is a framework of teaching but not any subjects.  Darth, do you have more ideas?

You know, I am more keen to send my younger kid to IS primary because the relationship between me and my elder kid becomes very worst and the study in local school's terrible heavy workload makes my elder kid becomes bad temper and lost interest in thinking but just finished homework everyday at 11:00pm+ everynight.  Even weekend, we cannot go to anywhere including family gathering.

Sorry, my msg is too long.
    

LeeTaiTai,

I have similar situation as you.  My relationship with my elder girl was just like yours in the past.  Now it is so much better, my girl will do her work, read story books and search info. from the websites all by herself!  To me, it is like miracle change to her after switching her to IS!  I realise that it is because the teachers can arouse her interest in study through using experiments, games, real life problem solvings etc.  

For Maths, I don't feel that IS' is easier as my girl is assigned to the higher level group, so she is learning more or less same level as in local school (I mean ESF P.5 Maths = local school P.5 Maths, so it is in fact one level higher to her original level at P.4).  For the lower level group, the level is a bit easier.  But the teaching approach is much more integrated than in local school.

Yet even if we are so lucky to get DGJS' offer, I know that the pressure to parents will be very high as the competition is really tough.  I also have friends with kids studying there and the mother is super nervous about the girl's performance!

阿胡

502 寫道:
Dear LeeTaiTai,

"For Maths in IS primary schools, is it much more simple and the kids will learn it in a more advanced level when they go to IS sec schools? Pls advise."

My boy is in P2 of an IS.  I can say that Maths in P1-P3 of most IS is not so difficult but rather to make it interesting to learn.

We were offered a chance to "switch" my boy back to good local elite school (not DBSPD or Co-Ed) but we turned down the offer at the end of August.  Why?  My hubby was scared that the relationship with my son will be worsen by the pressure given by school and my own temper as well.  He was afraid that it's me, not our son, will not be able to cope with it!  
  

So if you are a "demaning" mom and has reservation that your girl is not a 100% 自動波, 請三思!

Hope my personal experience won't be a biased one.

非常同意502的觀點。

想多講幾句中文小學的數學學習。

如果將來小朋友最後都會中學讀國際學校，中文小學所學數學一定足夠，那怕是小朋友平時都只能考80分。父母因為希望80分變成90分，往往給小朋友更多壓力，最後影響親子關係。

我不認為在學校的基礎上再買更多的練習題給小朋友做會有幫助。因為多數80分的小朋友不是不會做題，而是所謂粗心或學了就忘。粗心不能靠多做練習而變得不粗心。至於學了就忘，多做練習當然會有短期效果，但時間一長還是忘記，因為學了就忘的症結是對數學無興趣。

小朋友喜歡不喜歡數學，事實上父母的角色非常重要。小朋友喜歡數學不是教出來的，而是“聊"出來的。在中文小學，因為學校要花大量時間教學生做數學運算，花在提高學生數學興趣上的時間不多。除非小朋友聰慧細心，否則在學校就難以學到有趣的數學。父母通過平時的聊天，可以讓小朋友接觸到很多有趣的數學。這比多做幾大本練習題效果好的多。

國際學校的數學教育，就是想讓學生覺得數學有趣，但往往對數學運算的要求過低。所以國際學校可以產生數學天才，但普通學生就程度低得嚇人。中文學校則相反。

不知我的觀察對不對？

502

阿胡,

現在我對小兒的數學方針是希望讓他保留對數學興趣的同時加強訓練, 平常給的練習題都是以IQ有趣為主, 比方說現在世界盃是男孩子最熱的話題, 我的練習題是要他計算分組賽有多少場!  購物吃飯時讓他付錢或計算零錢等.  又他的數學我都以中文作教授語言, 起碼讓他多一個看和寫的機會.



502

Darth

To be honest, I do not know really that much about IB. But may be we can all share the bits that we know.

http://www.ibo.org/

IB is a system of assessing students, not just exams like HKCEE or IGCSE where students prepare themselves for that one-chance exams.

Approved IB schools will be assessing students according to requirements set by IBO. The assessment is continual, so you cannot just forget about school and place all your bet on one exam like HKCEE.

Looking at the cirriculum at diploma level, you will see that students are not divided into "streams". They have to study in 6 core areas: a first language, a second language (a third language can be taken as an option), mathematics, experimental science, individual and societies, and arts. This is actually a bit of everything.

To be honest, most IS are assessing students continually, even if they are not adopting IB yet. Teachers in IS do not discourage children by trying to think of the most tricky or difficult questions for exams and tests, especially in primary school level. Children are encouraged to improve. It is quite common to find very varied reading or math abilities in primary level. The school would not make you feel bad by putting red colour in your school report.

I am not sure how things work at secondary level, but I am sure the gaps (eg. language and math skills) would be much narrower once they reach secondary level. And like I said, since the assessment is continual, you cannot rely on the one-chance performance at public exams. Students need to provide works and perform all the time and cannot be lazy and cannot be that free.

"Freedom" seems to be a misunderstanding of the general public about IS. I really do not know why students cannot "have fun" while learning. My children are able to use at least one hour reading their favourite books (novels or fact books) and we have lots of time doing things together.  We also always have lots of time going out together on weekends. I do not think that is "free", it is just that they are having a good time learning.

IS primary school children are usually very motivated. They love reading and they learn without having to do 3 hours of homework everyday. Well, may be some students still cannot do well. But honestly, if those students cannot perform satisfactorily in an IS (like I said, IS would not leave a student to rot even if he is not one of the "good" ones), I do not think the competitive traditional spoon-feed way of education would help them either.

LeeTaiTai 寫道:
Also thanks to Darth who alerts me IS sec schools, epsecially adopting IB is not that "free".  I have spent some time in surfing the IBO net.  But still not fully understanding how it works.  I just understand that IB is a framework of teaching but not any subjects.  Darth, do you have more ideas?

WYmom

阿胡 寫道:
想多講幾句中文小學的數學學習。

如果將來小朋友最後都會中學讀國際學校，中文小學所學數學一定足夠，那怕是小朋友平時都只能考80分。父母因為希望80分變成90分，往往給小朋友更多壓力，最後影響親子關係。

我不認為在學校的基礎上再買更多的練習題給小朋友做會有幫助。因為多數80分的小朋友不是不會做題，而是所謂粗心或學了就忘。粗心不能靠多做練習而變得不粗心。至於學了就忘，多做練習當然會有短期效果，但時間一長還是忘記，因為學了就忘的症結是對數學無興趣。

小朋友喜歡不喜歡數學，事實上父母的角色非常重要。小朋友喜歡數學不是教出來的，而是“聊"出來的。在中文小學，因為學校要花大量時間教學生做數學運算，花在提高學生數學興趣上的時間不多。除非小朋友聰慧細心，否則在學校就難以學到有趣的數學。父母通過平時的聊天，可以讓小朋友接觸到很多有趣的數學。這比多做幾大本練習題效果好的多。

國際學校的數學教育，就是想讓學生覺得數學有趣，但往往對數學運算的要求過低。所以國際學校可以產生數學天才，但普通學生就程度低得嚇人。中文學校則相反。

不知我的觀察對不對？

阿胡,

Agree very much with you.  Pls check pm.

hkufrankie

Dear 阿胡

I agree with you that both Eng and Chin are important in Hong Kong. My daughter will attend a local kindergarten in morning in Sep and I am thinking of letting her attend an international kindergarten in afternoon. However at this moment she still needs to sleep for 2 hours after lunch. I am so worried. Please give me some comments. Thanks!

阿胡

hkufrankie 寫道:
Dear 阿胡

I agree with you that both Eng and Chin are important in Hong Kong. My daughter will attend a local kindergarten in morning in Sep and I am thinking of letting her attend an international kindergarten in afternoon. However at this moment she still needs to sleep for 2 hours after lunch. I am so worried. Please give me some comments. Thanks!

讀兩間幼稚園當然很辛苦。不用講她要午睡2個小時，光是用在兩間學校的交通，午餐等等上的時間，就足以讓她忙上好一陣。日日如此，大人和小朋友都會吃不消。

還有一個可能的問題是，幼稚園內小朋友交叉感冒的機會很大。如讀兩間幼稚園，機會又大一倍。

我估計你們將來都會送小朋友讀中文小學。如果真是這樣，我覺得送小朋友讀英文幼稚園會好一些。如果多給機會接觸英文，好多小朋友可以在6歲前學會phonics(我知道小朋友3歲半就學會phonics的例子)。英文學會phonics，就像幼時學會走路一樣。如果錯過這一時間，因為讀中文小學，她可能要等到很大才學得會。

當然，會不會由於沒有讀中文幼稚園，而影響她中文小學的選擇？ 不過，我以為，如果有小學因此而不收她，大可不必為此煩惱。因為該中文小學不值留戀。香港很多小學收生不足，你到時會有好多選擇的。

JennyBaBa

CherylMum, WYmom, Darth and Mr Ah Wu

Is it really easy to switch to IS after studying at local primary schools? I heard that the waiting lists at ESF schools are very long and it is not easy to transfer into ESF from local primaries, even students from famous local schools.

We need to make an important decison right now. The situation of my 5.5 year old girl is
- She completed ESF P1 and is now accepted by陳守仁小學 (a English primary which only teach Chinese in Chinese). So we need to make a decision soon.
- Her P1 at ESF is very happy. She wants to go to school everyday. No exam but we could see her improvements (esp in English reading and Oral). For example, she can read the level 2 sample essay of English 每日一篇 without difficulty http://www.hk-123.com/2006_summer/images/eng_sample/L2.html
- We trained her in Chinese reading at 每日一篇 (P1 level from last Sept). She can recongise most of the words (80%) now but does not write much.  

We have two choices:
1. Continue at ESF and teach Chinese at home (but I really doubt it). Does anyone know any successful case in this approach?
2. Switch to 陳守仁小學 to train her Chinese and do home reading to keep her English. Then switch back to ESF later (but I doubt whether it is easy, because it is really difficult).

Any sharings are welcome.
Thanks in advance!

snchiu

"Local or International" is not equal to "Chinese or English".  It is also not equal to "the local curriculum or an overseas curriculum" (the latter may be the American, the Australian, the British, the Canadian or the IB, etc.).  Education is much more than the curriculum.  A curriculum tells you WHAT should be taught/learnt but I'm more interested in HOW our children would learn/be taught.  In HK, between local and international, what we have to choose is the way our children would be educated.  For example, as far as I understand, the Singaporean curriculum is more demanding than the Hong Kong one but we all know that studying in SIS has less pressure than studying in any local school.  

What I am sure is that no matter whether a child is educated in a local school or an IS, there is NO guarantee for his/her Chinese and English proficiency.  I met many people (from teenagers to adults, HK or from elsewhere) who were not able to communicate, in whatever language, at all.

WYmom

JennyBaBa,

ESF and TSL are very different type of schools, I have friends studying in TSL, heard that the school is a traditional one, English standard is quite good, Chinese is weaker, and they have more different minorities.  Fees are lower. Yet they don't have secondary schools.

So how do you like the school?  It seems to be better to learn both languages at school, if the English standard of the school is high, the kids can still switch to IS afterwards, may not be ESF (it is not easy, depends on luck), there are many other IS.  So depends which type of school you prefer for your kid.

spidey

Dear all,
     I'm a new member who previously frequented this topic which I find to be very interesting. Recently I found the chronological order of the entries of this topic to be all mixed up making the history of the development of the contents very confusing. do other members have this problem too?
     I'm a parent who has chosen method '3' of 'Ah Wu' with slight modifications - my child has just finished P.4 and I'm switching her to IS this coming August.
     To me, waiting till P.6 is too risky because she is studying in a local Chinese school. Despite her English is better than her Chinese, I found that her daily contact with English is and will be minimal being that all subjects and activities in her school are carried out in Cantonese. Secondly all her classmates prefer to read Chinese books and never conversate in English. Thirdly, the 'peer' effect is getting more influential as she grows older.
     It was a hard decision for me to make a few months ago and I hope it will be a wise one when I look back at it a few years later.

Spidey

阿胡

spidey 寫道:
Dear all,
     I'm a new member who previously frequented this topic which I find to be very interesting. Recently I found the chronological order of the entries of this topic to be all mixed up making the history of the development of the contents very confusing. do other members have this problem too?
     I'm a parent who has chosen method '3' of 'Ah Wu' with slight modifications - my child has just finished P.4 and I'm switching her to IS this coming August.
     To me, waiting till P.6 is too risky because she is studying in a local Chinese school. Despite her English is better than her Chinese, I found that her daily contact with English is and will be minimal being that all subjects and activities in her school are carried out in Cantonese. Secondly all her classmates prefer to read Chinese books and never conversate in English. Thirdly, the 'peer' effect is getting more influential as she grows older.
     It was a hard decision for me to make a few months ago and I hope it will be a wise one when I look back at it a few years later.

Spidey

我個人覺得，P4轉讀IS有點偏早，因為小朋友的心智此時仍處於兒童階段。閱讀小說通常要在P5結束時才會成為習慣。當然個個小朋友都不同，有些小朋友心智成熟的較早。

我認識的一位朋友，他兒子就有這樣的問題。他用了一個較簡單的方法，而令他兒子的閱讀較順利地完成了從兒童到成人的過渡。

他在一個暑假，帶小朋友回大陸，請了一位大學生，每日讀2個小時金庸小說給他兒子聽。男孩很容易對這類小說發生興趣。經過一個暑假，他兒子便能夠自己閱讀了。

JennyBaBa

Dear Spidey

Thanks for your sharings. May I know which IS has you chosen for your girl? Have you tried to apply to the other IS? Which IS is easy to apply?

Please pm me if you do not want to disclose publicly.

Thanks.
Jennybaba