如何學會兩文三語

阿胡

WYmom 寫道:

阿胡,

Have your kids switched to IS dominant by English?  You said you are very satisfied with their Chinese standard, can you share how do you keep them up with it in secondary school stage?  

My daughter also switched from local school to IS in upper primary, due to the school program and peer group influence, she is very willing to read a lot of English books and can catch up with the English standard quickly.  However, she won't have so much time to read Chinese stories and won't be so willing to do so.  Can you share how you help your kids to keep interest in reading both?

Thanks.

我大兒子情形同你女兒差不多，他是在完成中文小學P5後轉入國際學校。該國際學校都有中文課程，但他並沒有上。離開中文小學後因為中文基礎已足以讀中文小說，所以雖然沒有繼續上中文課程，但閱讀能力並無明顯下降。

他最大問題是在英文寫作。由於無小學英文寫作的學習同練習，他同其他以英文為母語的同學有明顯差距。幸好他語言能力不錯，最後做得都能令人滿意。

但是，在從中文到英文的過度期間，他有很大壓力。由於對他的表現不滿意，我同兒子之間的關係都一度非常緊張。現在在事情過去之後，我才懂得實際上錯在我對他不了解。

實話說，我對兒子走過的這條路很無信心。特別是他的弟妹如果都要重覆他的路，真是怕怕。這就是我開始這個題目的原因。我相信香港像你我這樣的父母不少，一定有人可以幫大家解決疑慮。

WYmom

阿胡,

Thanks very much for your sharing.  I have different experience from yours, when my daughter was studying in local school, our relationship was not good as I was too anxious about her doing well in exams.  After switching to IS, our relationship became much better, I also enjoy much more learning about her school life and studies.  However, same as your son, my daughter still needs to catch up a lot on writing skills.

Yet I agree very much with you that such path is not easy, especially for parents, as we really have to do a lot to help in the transition.  So I am also considering the path for my second girl.  However, seems that results of bilingual schools are not very clear yet.

How do you feel about ISF (Independent School Foundation)?  Their way of language development seems to be a combination of local school in early years and IS in later years, as they use 70:30 Chinese/English in junior primary, and gradually change to 30:70 Chinese/ English from P.4 onwards.  This means that they suggest developing a better base of Chinese first, then continue to develop further in English.  Besides, they adopt IS approach in teaching and IB cirriculum.   This maybe better than 50/50 English/Chinese all the way through, yet no solid proof available as the school is too new.

fatwong

DEAR ALL,
其實有那一間學校可同時學到普通話及英文, 即是以普通話及英語教學, 其實我所知, VICTORIA         可去到中學程度?

mattsmum

中文學到F3-F4，then go to UK high school.
that is the traditional way and it worked well.

阿胡

mattsmum 寫道:
中文學到F3-F4，then go to UK high school.
that is the traditional way and it worked well.

為什麼要去英國呢，讀國際學校不能達到同樣效果嗎？

另外，中文學到F3-F4，只有3-4年就要讀大學，英文同英國孩子比，能做到top 5%嗎？

多謝。

WYmom

mattsmum 寫道:
中文學到F3-F4，then go to UK high school.
that is the traditional way and it worked well.

By this way, Chinese standard is OK, but English standard in local school (even in EMI) is far behind international school since upper primary.  Not sure if the students can fit into UK high school.  I know one girl from HK famous local English secondary school, she failed to fit into high school in Canada and has to come back soon after struggling for 2 years.

mattsmum

阿胡 寫道:
[quote]
mattsmum 寫道:
中文學到F3-F4，then go to UK high school.
that is the traditional way and it worked well.

為什麼要去英國呢，讀國際學校不能達到同樣效果嗎？

另外，中文學到F3-F4，只有3-4年就要讀大學，英文同英國孩子比，能做到top 5%嗎？

多謝。[/quote]

this was what worked in my time. there are many , many people I knew who went this route.

it worked really well. not sure if it is still applicable to kids these days.

'讀國際學校不能達到同樣效果?"
- yes, I had been thinking about this and that is why I joint the discussion here.

My worry is " it would be very difficult to be accepted by IS after P6 or F3".

英國? yes, not canada or australia, UK life can be really tough, no good food, no place to play, just stay in boarding school.

WYmom

I know that it is more difficult to get into top Us in Canada now.  For US Us, they are looking more for students with special skills/talents. Any one knows about situation in UK now?

阿胡

WYmom 寫道:
I know that it is more difficult to get into top Us in Canada now.  For US Us, they are looking more for students with special skills/talents. Any one knows about situation in UK now?

美國的大學彔取標準同世界上的其它主要國家都很不相同。主要差別在於

1) 無統一大學入學考試；
2) 無明文規定的入學標準；
3) 非學術因素有舉足輕重的影響。

更詳細地說，就是所學科目廣泛，但要求低。和香港band one學校比較，科學科要求可以說是極低。語言，人文科對英文要求多一些，所以對英文不是第一語言的學生會覺得困難。

香港band one學校學生難以進入美國頂級大學，有兩大不利因素：一是族裔限制，二是"亞裔綜合症"。

族裔限制是指大學彔取學生中對國際學生，亞裔學生人數不成文的比例規定；"亞裔綜合症"是指亞裔學生（包括香港學生）科學科優異，語言，人文科相對較差，SAT分數出眾，但體育運動差等等亞裔學生綜合典形形像。

"For US Us, they are looking more for students with special skills/talents" 這是一種善意的借口。但事實上今日美國大學之所以有如此大學彔取標準，是源於上個世紀廿年代為了避免大量猶太裔進入美國頂級大學而產生的策略。到上個世紀後一階段，演變成了對付大量亞裔進入美國頂級大學的手段。

哈哈，陰謀論。

撇開陰謀論不說，我對我子女就讀國際學校的另一根本原因，是不滿中文學校的填鴨式教育。

不過這些都和學會兩文三語無關。離題了。

WYmom

stccmc 寫道:
// I know one girl from HK famous local English secondary school, she failed to fit into high school in Canada and has to come back soon after struggling for 2 years.//

Every year, there are many students who attended local schools in HK choose to spend their University years in UK/US/AU/CN.  I seldom hear struggles and having to return HK empty-handed.   Is your example an isolated case, having some background story which others wouldn't know?//?

This is just a common normal case, the girl studied in a boarding school and she was too attached to HK culture and things, she could not merge into the community and lives in foreign country.   It is really much more difficult to get into good Canadian Us now.  The entrance requirements have been raised.

I know another boy who continued to study pre-U and U in Australia after F.5, yet due to the lower English ability, he has to repeat and repeat in his U studies and cannot graduate from U in 4 years' time, don't know how many years to go further.  So there are in fact many failure cases.

我對我子女就讀國際學校的另一根本原因，是不滿中文學校的填鴨式教育。

不過這些都和學會兩文三語無關。離題了。//

Exactly.  We don't usually base our schooling decisions on bilingual education alone.  Suppose the best biligual model was proved to be local Chinese school until P6 and then IS afterwards.  Would you do the same even though you hate the local schools' spoon-feeding education and make your children suffer 6 years in local schools?

Agree, but that's why there is so much headache, as we don't want the kids to be spoon fed for 6 years, and we want them to be bilingually proficient all the way up at the same time.  Are these conflicting?

Darth

WYmom,

You have probably described 2 of the most common examples of failures.

Yep. There are more failures than we want to admit.

Honestly, unless the person is your close friend or close relative, how would you even know he is a UBC dropout. Some people simply do not want to mention it anymore, since I do not think that is something anyone would be proud of.

WYmom 寫道:

This is just a common normal case, the girl studied in a boarding school and she was too attached to HK culture and things, she could not merge into the community and lives in foreign country.   It is really much more difficult to get into good Canadian Us now.  The entrance requirements have been raised.

I know another boy who continued his study pre-U and U in Australia after F.5, yet due to the lower English ability, he has to repeat and repeat in his U studies and cannot graduate from U in 4 years' time, don't know how many years to go further.  So there are in fact many failure cases.

Darth

In reality, how many are willing to admit that he was a dropout from university?

stccmc 寫道:
Every year, there are many students who attended local schools in HK choose to spend their University years in UK/US/AU/CN.  I seldom hear struggles and having to return HK empty-handed.   Is your example an isolated case, having some background story which others wouldn't know?

WYmom

Darth 寫道:
WYmom,

You have probably described 2 of the most common examples of failures.

Yep. There are more failures than we want to admit.

Honestly, unless the person is your close friend or close relative, how would you even know he is a UBC dropout. Some people simply do not want to mention it anymore, since I do not think that is something anyone would be proud of.

Darth,

I mentioned these cases only to tell that not all local students can sucessfully fit into schools aboard in high schools or Us after studying over 10 years in local schools here.  So as parents we may need to plan for more options for the kids in future.  Besides, entering U becomes very common now, not like in the old days.  So competition to better Us is of course keener.  So I doubt the path suggested by mattsmum is still working or not.

Ruby1219

I agree with you WYmom.

I put my son in international school and hope that he could master English well as his basic medium of communication and manage Chinese on a daily-life, 'working' level. Although language is not my only criteria in choosing the education for my son. I chose int'l school mainly for other reasons.

I think it's too greedy to expect the child to master both languages upto native standard. It's too much pressure for the kid and also unrealistic.

Ruby

阿胡

Ruby1219 寫道:
I agree with you WYmom.

I put my son in international school and hope that he could master English well as his basic medium of communication and manage Chinese on a daily-life, 'working' level. Although language is not my only criteria in choosing the education for my son. I chose int'l school mainly for other reasons.

I think it's too greedy to expect the child to master both languages upto native standard. It's too much pressure for the kid and also unrealistic.

Ruby

要中英文都達到native標準，非常困難，真有幾份貪心。

但英文達到native標準，中文可讀演義小說，實是可為的。我大兒子就是一例。他天資只能算不錯，一個普通的好學生而已。只是他走過的路較辛苦，又要承擔較大風險。我相信同樣的路一定好多孩子都能行得通，而且會比他更順利。另一方面，一定也會有孩子因為語言的銜接不順利而承受不了。

小學讀雙語學校，中學讀ESF或類似的國際學校會不會是另一可能的選擇？雙語學校小學畢業時能讀演義小說嗎？

LeeTaiTai

WYMom & other parents

If your girl (finished P1 who loves to read a lot of English story books rather than Chinese but not very keen in studying the school textbooks) was admitted by both DGS and an IS.  How will you choose?  Especially in terms of future studies in HK/abroad and prospect.  I heard from many of my friends that if ones graduated from local long history schools will have more choices and easier to look for a job.  Since I have no friends studying in DGS and cannot make a comparison.  Besides, my husband said children should receive some pressure in study rather than be too "free".

By the way, is that all DGS primary graduates can go directly to DG Secondary School?

Please be kind enough to share your opinions.  Many thanks.

     

WYmom

LeeTaiTai,

DGJS/DGS of course is a good school, but it is not easy to get into DGJS. I guess if my kid was accepted, will let her join and may still change to study in IS secondary later as I like the multicultural atmostphere and the interactive approach in IS.  I think pressure of studying in IS secondary is not low as well, they have to take public exams of foreign countries and/or IB.  Anyway, have to see if the kids enjoy the school life or not, no matter which school it is.  Every kid has different character and may or may not fit into DGS culture, for them, DGS is just like other schools for them to learn more and make friends. :

WYmom

阿胡 寫道:

要中英文都達到native標準，非常困難，真有幾份貪心。

但英文達到native標準，中文可讀演義小說，實是可為的。我大兒子就是一例。他天資只能算不錯，一個普通的好學生而已。只是他走過的路較辛苦，又要承擔較大風險。我相信同樣的路一定好多孩子都能行得通，而且會比他更順利。另一方面，一定也會有孩子因為語言的銜接不順利而承受不了。

小學讀雙語學校，中學讀ESF或類似的國際學校會不會是另一可能的選擇？雙語學校小學畢業時能讀演義小說嗎？

Agree very much with you, the problem is:  Which bilingual primary school is good?  Do you mean Yew Chung?  ISF? Renaissance? CKY? Or local English primary schools - DGJS, MCS, KTS... ??