關於英基的質疑（來自英基家長）

elmostoney

I am an ESF parent with one child in ESF and one in ICA, and I share the sentiments with the original article.  The only after school tuition we do with a private tutor is Chinese.  I have been a parent volunteer in their math session as well.  What was mentioned was EXACTLY my experience.  As I posted my experience already, I won't repeat here.  You can read it in another thread
http://www.edu-kingdom.com/forum ... 6040&extra=page%3D1

BTW, I don't think we have THAT many kids doing private tuition in math and English in our school as our student mix is about 60% or more non-Chinese.  In fact, I am not even sure if we have that many kids doing Chinese tuition!  My son is in Y3 and the native Chinese class only has 6 kids!  

elmostoney

samsam123321 發表於 14-11-10 12:34
數學方面，你可以話佢地跟本唔同Ls咁教法。佢地跟本係唔操練!所以計數肯定係差。都係果句，你入去前已知道 ...

入左都可以批評掛? esf教數最大问题唔係操練咁簡單，係老師兼顧唔到咁大班，而程度的variance咁大。esf吸引我係因有中学，相对易入，好近我家。因我大女係其他IS讀，我当然会拿兩者比較。我唔轉埋2個一齐主因係大女学校冇中学。

elmostoney

nintendo & choisumwong, 同意之極. 我交application form時, 剛好差少少 miss deadline, 所以親自去左佢地個office headquarter交, 唔郵寄.  上到去真係嚇左我一跳, 智能全新office building, 高層全海景, 兩個非常得閒嘅外籍人士receptionists, 無敵大嘅reception區 , 有埋open area 係旁邊開會 (兩個加起來, 比我地外人睇到, 唔係坐office人嘅地區, 我估過千呎), 但地方主要都係空空如也.  當時印象好差, 因為我個女係另一間IS讀, 佢地係upstart, 可以見到學校係staffing同office都好慳, 資源都留返比學生, 成一個強烈對比.  感覺就係esf花好多時間美化headquarter, 又唔係物野投資銀行或係誇國公司, 洗唔洗?  佢地要見物野客?  要咁大排場?  點解d $唔係留比學校用?  未上過佢地headquarter嘅家長, 又defend esf嘅教育質素的, 唔該你地自己上去睇睇.

我個仔好幸運, 今年遇上個好有heart嘅老師 (我個女舊年老師), 但佢承認30人, 真係冇法manage到.  我好記得, 舊年我去做parent helper 時, 有個小朋友math分組時唔做野, 我教佢, 佢都唔肯. 後來我問老師, 睇下洗唔洗同佢照肺. 老師話佢係外國來的, 剛係個年開學轉來, 程度追唔上, 但係老師自己表示無能為力, 因為一班人太多, 好難手把手去帶某幾個人.  

其實esf學費唔算平, 係家長比得比其他學校少, 但當你加返政府subsidy, 又計返30人一班, 其實比我個女而家讀緊間都係差唔多, 但我個女個間係平均一班20~22人 (雖然話可收到25, 但我所知冇), 所以佢地一班收的總學費, 其實比esf一班收入少.  印像中聽講政府冇subsidy計, 過幾年入學的學生學費約一萬, 我個女而家學費就係一萬.  即係話esf 一班可收三十萬學費.

至於我之前所講操練, 唔係講帶物野功課返屋企狂做, 我個女都冇.  我覺得返全日學的小學, 最好大部份都係學校做. 我知我個女學校有工作紙, 數量比我個仔係esf多, 而esf老師不一定會check, 即係你有你做, 對錯就未必次次知, 最重要都係assessment.  但我個女個間學校就一定會 check.  老師對學生progress相對esf, 我覺得跟得緊好多, 但我個女返學都一樣冇壓力.

當然有人會問, 點解我唔轉埋阿仔去阿女學校, 既然我講呢間比esf好, 因為佢地係新校, 冇中學, 呢個係 唯一原因.  早兩日我先同我先生傾, 如果唔係中學原因, 唔需要揀, 我地第一時間會轉返細仔去大女間學校.

elmostoney

我唔明點解大家硬係覺得呢度有其他意見的家長係講緊考試呀, 分數呢d, 我ar哂頭. 因為我個女間學校都冇考試的, 佢地學校係由一個esf 資深任教20+年老師set up, 好多模式跟esf都類似, 但係佢當時針對係esf見到的問題, 嘗試係新校盡量避免.  我當時唔明點解佢成日同我咁講, 佢地所有的錢, 盡量係分毫都用係學生到,而家睇返轉頭, 我個仔都係esf, 我先明, 因為佢個人經歷, 所以有另一番體會.

我以math做例子, 係因為呢個係好黑白, 唔同教英文.  我問細仔, 老師教math情況, 佢話通常最多教兩次, 如果做落唔識就叫佢地問其他同學, 再唔識先問老師.  但我個女個班, 佢話老師教一次, 做, 有人唔明, 唔明就再教唔明個班人, 再做, 再唔明, (呢班人應會一路縮少), 就再抽唔明班人教.  雖然唔保證可一路教落去, 但老師係會重複咁教, 起碼大部份人會明, 真係再唔明, 先睇情況點處理, 當然佢地一樣有分level (15人分3 level).  有時都要alert家長幫手係屋企睇下.  

至於不停講到我呢類家長要點操練d仔女, well, a disappointment for you guys. 我地只補中文, 亦從不要求子女參加任何比賽攞獎呢d事, 如果要參加, 都要佢地自願.  我個女學樂器,係今年自己要求, 每日只練5分鐘咁大把.  I don't expect the school to do magic, but I do think the school can do a bit more than now.  The difference I see between the 2 schools are, teachers are much more hands on and involved in my daughter's school, while in ESF, the case is quite the opposite.  I agree that parents need to be involved if you want your children to do better, BUT I also think the teachers need to be more involved as well. I have to constantly do follow up with my son, while I don't have to with my daughter.    And I know my children's calibre - my son is more focused and smarter than my daughter.  In fact, my son's Y2 teacher quite liked him because he was never a trouble maker - less for the teacher's already filled hands.  My daughter's Y1 teacher almost thought she had ADD, and for my daughter to attain the present level is quite impressive (BTW, when she transferred to ESF at the beginning of Y3 (only stayed 2.5 months before transferring back to her present school), her reading level was assessed by ESF as 1 term above their required average).

elmostoney

而家hk文化真奇怪，唔准批評。其實我都想轉佢走，不過未諗定路向，因Y1讀一間，Y2先轉來，而家先Y3中，我都要考慮轉校太密的影響。但我真心希望可以幫未入又考慮入的家長，令佢地有机会聽下不同意見，而唔係一味追捧。

elmostoney

我有幾位親友孩子都在ESF, 有幾個剛畢業兩年, 另外有幾個讀緊upper secondary.  就係早幾日, 讀緊upper primary的其中一個先講緊, 其中一科理科, 個老師HEA到爆, 一堂用左一半講笑同D無謂野, 所以呢科佢變相要自修, 幸好佢本身都係一個committed 的孩子, 識得緊張.  

我完全明白nintendo所講, 因為已畢業的親友中, 其中一年, 佢同埋友好的同學都係好勤力, 有D係又SMART又勤力, 佢地就係nintendo口中考到IB 40以上, 甚至滿分個班 (我都見過呢幾個朋友仔), 入港大讀醫, 去oxbridge讀law.  What they achieved didn't come from happy learning and no practice/work.  They were always doing study groups and stuff from what I saw.  但同時我亦要指出, 我都識得超HEA嘅學生, 入左物學校我就唔講.

What is there to expect from a teacher?  I went to a public high school for 5 years in N. America where my parents didn't pay a single dime.  I found EVERY single one of my teachers performing - teaching in class, answering questions, serious about tests and attendance - and homework was expected to be turned in (信不信由你, 今年開學時, 我地有個BRIEFING,  學校話HW照比, 但你可以唔交! 係開中名義講).  There was never really a "hea" moment so-to-speak.   Teachers were assigned to teach the proper subject at a suitable level of their ability.  Granted -  some teachers might be more fun and grabbed the students' attention more, while others were a bit monotonous.  Some might be tougher, while others were more relaxed.  BUT I never encountered a case described by my relative when the teacher spends 1/2 the class time doing anything except class-related activities.  Every class I took, I did learn and was challenged.  Isn't it what education is about?  Isn't this what we should expect from teachers?

And I absolutely disagree about the fact that I should have known what I was getting my child into, so therefore, I should not complain.  Even upon entering marriage, one would disagree and argue with the other half.  One could not have known all aspects until committed.  As I pointed out, I am disillusioned in many ways, and I am thinking of possible exits which takes time.  On the other hand, if I decided to let him stay, I am considering what I can do for him.  我對小學的要求只係英文同數學打好根基, and looking at the way things are progressing, I doubt it is achievable.  I just want to take this opportunity to alert parents who are considering 英基.  It's not as rosy as some diehard supporters claim.  Try to step back and look at it again.

elmostoney

hkparent 發表於 14-11-11 23:15
As an outsider, I tend to agree to what Nineto and a few other parents said about the weak foundatio ...

I think happy learning and work can co-exist.  they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

elmostoney

點解? 有時都要問下學校同老師.

我個仔唔係物野資優生, 但我知佢去到邊個位.  因為以前佢讀montessori到入y1為止, 再加上本身有d興趣, 所以數底幾好. 上次見家長, 老師同我講, 佢rounding numbers唔識, ok. 唔緊要, 我唔要求學校一定教識每個學生, 自己返去同佢做下都唔係問題.  我嘅驚人發現係, 我用5分鐘教我個仔已明, 達到學校呢個unit要求5位數要rounding的要求.  我見學校話如教到7位rounding就係exceed expectation, 佢既已明左, 有時間咪自己教埋. 我用左15分鐘, 佢基本上已ok, 係要練下.  唔練始終我唔知佢有幾明, 於是每日我比八至十題rounding佢做, 一星期做5日, 我覺得好合理. 佢做呢d 題目, 其實都係三五分鐘.

如果我同阿仔講5分鐘佢能明白, 達到呢個 unit 的平均要求, 而班上已教左一段時間, 我真係冇法諗得明, 點解老師教左一輪, 佢都唔明?  因為相同地, 我個女老師都係話佢rounding唔得, 我教佢, 我好理解老師點解話佢唔得, 因為我自已都用左兩個半鐘去教佢! 仲要攞哂我成套montessori 道具出來!而我個仔, 真係係紙上寫幾個數字, 講幾分鐘野就攪掂.  一個強烈對比下, 我唔明, 起碼呢個concept對我個仔來講唔難grasp, 究竟上課點教?

And I definitely agree with Nintendo.  I remember my daughter's Y2 teacher advised me that math is a subject that benefits from practice.  I have put my kids on some math hw 4 to 5 times a week.  Nothing much.  Sometimes from workbook, and sometimes I make up my own according to what they are learning in class or their level. Just 15 minutes a day.   My son actually enjoys math.  My daughter doesn't, and I can't fanthom how she would do without this practice.  

They still have plenty of time to play, so I don't see the problem at all.  I think happy learning also needs a certain balance of work and the understanding that one doesn't just get to do whatever is to your own liking all the time.  My daughter doesn't like Chinese, but I can't let her get out of it.  Freedom without responsibility is not what I want to instill in my kids.

elmostoney

我有朋友兩個都係esf, 講到天上有地下無, 你以為香港冇is比esf更好.  佢個仔咪又補中, 又補英.  所以平學費所慳的 $ 可拎去補習.  而且我非常唔明, 點解人人都話esf最平, 因為esf有 subsidy, 所以家長out of pocket可能係比其他 IS 比少左學費, 但你加返subsidy 上去, 網上某article話新生冇subsidy要比多23%, 咁小學即係要成$9000/月.  記住係30人一班, $9000, 即一班收入係 $270,000.  有d學校可能係20人/一班, 當$10,000/月, 一班先net $200,000. 有d貴d嘅, 可能$12,000 ~ $14,000, but when you look at the picture, they have lesser students.  The income netted from the class is still less or about the same as a 30-student class at ESF.  Where did the money go?  My question is - is it being spent wisely?  Remember - apart from DC (I don't know about RC), unlike other IS - I wouldn't say all, but many probably had to fund the construction of their own building - ESF bears no loan for the school building.