KGV英婦教中文

alpham0m

I don't get your logic. My point is, there is nothing wrong for an English-medium school to offer Mandarin lessons, but please hire decent teachers to do the job.

tingtingting

FattyDaddy 發表於 12-5-3 15:15
I do agree ESF has made a mstake, the mistake is to offer Chinese at all. Just like it would be a mi ...

Exactly. Enrolling one's kid in ESF and expecting decent enough Chinese is like walking into McDonald's and expecting decent BBQ pork rice.

tingtingting

I'm gutted by the way AppleDaily reported it: telling a small part of the story and magnifying the trivia.  The Chinese curriculum is not a 2 page document. It must be a huge document if not a collection of many documents.  There are bound to be mistakes to be found, if only one looks carefully enough.  To accuse the teachers and the Chinese Head of being unprofessional based on those mistakes is unprofessional.

BTW, ESF schools are English schools, that is.  At ESF schools, Chinese is no different from French, Latin, German or Spanish as a second language.

I am not offering excuses for the teachers.  But, who can say that the teachers are not already doing their best within all the constraints?

bobbycheung

FattyDaddy 發表於 12-5-3 16:16
That is not the point, no one is saying Chinese is not important, but if learning Chinese is such a ...

To me, it is not really a question of whether learning Chinese is a big concern or not.  The point is that a school should make sure what it teaches its students is correct.   Even with my poor Chinese, I can tell there is something wrong with the sentences.  There is really no excuse.   

bobbycheung

tingtingting 發表於 12-5-3 16:24
Exactly. Enrolling one's kid in ESF and expecting decent enough Chinese is like walking into McDonal ...

Would you say the same about learning French or other languages in ESF?  Would you mind if the teachers teach the kids wrong French?   

FattyDaddy

HKTHK 發表於 12-5-3 16:13
Different schools cater to different students.  Yes, that I can understand.  Not even offering Chinese classes for those who would like to take it is simply wrong

Hmm, aren't we talking about international schools here? We should ask ourselves why parents send their children to international schools {:1_1:}

There are many local schools in Hongkong where Chinese is properly taught, there are even more schools in China and Taiwan where Chinese is better taught than most local schools in Hongkong, so there are no lack of choices for those who are serious about learning Chinese. Why expect international schools full of foreign teachers and foreign students to do the same? That is neither their purpose nor strength.

FattyDaddy

alpham0m 發表於 12-5-3 16:22
My point is, there is nothing wrong for an English-medium school to offer Mandarin lessons, but please hire decent teachers to do the job

Yes, either you don't do it or you do it properly.

You said you went the West for university, there was nothing wrong with that university offering Japanese lessons and they hired decent teachers to teach it, good for them, but would you criticize that university if they don't offer Japanese lessons? What was your main purpose in studying there? To learn Japanese?

So we should ask ourselves what is the main purpose of Hongkong parents sending their children to international schools, to learn Chinese? If that is the case then why put up with international schools at all? There are many local schools in Hongkong and even more schools in China and Taiwan where Chinese is taught to a high standard.

Atticus

I think FattyDaddy and tingtingting missed the point here.  The point is not about Chinese.  It's about getting the teaching materials right.  This applies to any subjects, may it be English, Chinese, Physics, Maths, History, etc.

I might be wrong but I have a feeling that if the subject matter wasn't Chinese language, your views would be different.  Would you tolerate it if the teaching staff at ESF taught their students E=mc3 or that Henry VIII had 5 wives and was the King of France?

HKTHK

Of course, so as you pointed out English is their first language.  That is great and I am sure one of the major reasons that parents send their kids to international school.  But that is not what we are talking about here.  The article suggests that Chinese, as a second language, is being taught poorly/incorrectly by an inexperienced teacher.  If it were Spanish, that may be more excusable since HK does not exactly have a deep pool of Spanish teachers.  But Chinese/Mandarin?  There are plenty of good teachers around and many are experienced in teaching it as a second language.  One need to look no further than any other international schools in HK.  What people are upset about is that a language is being taught poorly/incorrectly and it is so simple to fix the problem by hiring better teachers that are readily available in HK.

As for your opinion on Chinese should not be offered at all, I still don't get it.  So French, Spanish, German or whatever other language is OK to be taught but not Chinese?  Don't worry about it though since I don't even think you understand where some of us are coming from.  And it is pointless to argue when we are not on the same page.

tingtingting>  No one questioned that the teacher put in their best effort.  But their best effort are simply not good enough in this case.  Time to think about a new teacher.  Finding mandarin teachers in HK is not exactly rocket science.

bobbycheung

FattyDaddy 發表於 12-5-3 16:54
Yes, either you don't do it or you do it properly.

You said you went the West for university, there ...

But there are also "many local schools in Hongkong and even more schools in China and Taiwan" where maths is taught to a high standard, is it then OK for ESF or other English-medium international schools to teach the kids the wrong maths?   ESF could choose not to offer Chinese or it could choose to teach Chinese to a baby level only.  But no matter what it teaches, it has a duty to make sure what it teaches are correct and its teachers are capable of doing so.

kcvtsai

I think as a proper educational institute, the materials they taught should be appropriate and the teachers should be qualified.  Irrespective to the subject and language.  

Even in a local school, I would expect the teachers to be qualified and to teach proper English.  It's no excuse to say a local school's medium of learning is Chinese (Cantonese / Mandarin) then their English should also be substandard or wrong!!!

william9_2003

http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/template/apple/art_main.php?iss_id=20120503&sec_id=4104&subsec_id=12731&art_id=16303197

http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/template/apple/art_main.php?iss_id=20120503&sec_id=4104&subsec_id=12731&art_id=16303196

FattyDaddy

Atticus 發表於 12-5-3 16:55
ESF taught their students that Henry VIII had 5 wives ...

There are many people in the world who would not care less if Henry VIII was a peanut farmer

The subject does matter because of the sentiments and sensitivities attached. if a local school in Hongkong teaches bad French, that is not the same as teaching bad Chinese. If the school decides to drop French from its curriculum because it was being taught so badly, that is not the same as the school dropping Chinese.

But when it comes to international schools, should we apply the same sentiments?

FattyDaddy

HKTHK 發表於 12-5-3 17:01
The article suggests that Chinese, as a second language, is being taught poorly/incorrectly by an inexperienced teacher.

I never said this is acceptable, a school should teach something properly or not teach it at all. We agree on more things than we disagree on.

What I'm saying is ESF should drop Chinese altogether because they are teaching it so badly.

Atticus

Sorry, I fail to understand the point you are trying to make.

annie40

似乎大家仲有不同的想法, 我让孩子上IS, 早就预见孩子不懂中文的.  因此从来对学校的中文科未有期望, 亦因此从不失望.   

念IS 的孩子是十分喜爱读书的, 唯独大部分非常厌恶中文科. 是爸妈整天提倡中文科好重要, 他们才努力地念下去.  究其原因不单是中文难学, 最令孩子讨厌的是中国老师用的是中式教育, 比较单向, 家长式, 孩子未学懂多少字已投降了.  对中文有很大的抗拒. 最后事倍功半.

我偶然天真地想, 希望有天有位西方老师懂得孩子的心, 也懂中文, 或许孩子的中文学习路便变得平坦多呢.

今天的中文文法和语病, 在香港的LS , IS , 已充斥久已, 不是旱有吧.  认真看看我们的确教科书, 学者和一些中文底子厚的朋友, 不难指正缪误.  或许大家比较担心是外国人教中文的能力和水平.  我不认识那位老师, 不敢评论.  但如能从令一角度看事情, 可以是:

* 老师如只是教初级中文程度的学生, 问题不大.
* 外籍老师教中文科, 是活生生的身教, 让孩子明白'世上无难事, 只怕有心人'
* 课程上的文法错误, 是中文部老师集体的错, 不应单一怪罪外籍老师. ESF受批判, 反而可以值此完善课程

其实偶然一些IS 的newsletters的英文也写得麻麻地, 何以未见香港家长对校长的英文水平提出意见. 我们是照样信任学校的整体教育工作呢!  外籍朋友有怀疑, 我就连怀疑的水平都未有.  不知是悲还是喜.

希望大家继续互相包涵.

annie

Atticus

Why are you advocating for ESF to drop Chinese altogether?  I'm not sure that's what's being discussed here...

FattyDaddy

bobbycheung 發表於 12-5-3 17:04
But there are also "many local schools in Hongkong and even more schools in China and Taiwan" where maths is taught to a high standard, is it then OK for ESF or other English-medium international schools to teach the kids the wrong maths?

The subject being taught does matter. Maths is a core subject, and if a school does not teach maths or teaches it badly, few parents would be interested in enrolling their kids.

Is Chinese a core subject? Many people's knee jerk response would be "of course", but is it? No doubt for local schools in the Greater China area it is, but is that the case for international schools? I never said it is right for ESF to teach bad Chinese or any other subject, I'm saying if they are teaching Chinese so badly then perhaps they should just drop it altogether because it is not their "core business", just like McDonalds dropping rice from their menu {:1_1:}

Atticus

Sorry, I haven't made myself clear.  My two responses above were in response to FattyDaddy's latest comments, which leave my utterly bewildered...

FattyDaddy

Atticus 發表於 12-5-3 18:29
Why are you advocating for ESF to drop Chinese altogether?  I'm not sure that's what's being discuss ...

My complete sentence is, "ESF should drop Chinese altogether if they are teaching it so badly".

We all agree that one should do something properly or not at all, especially when it comes to teaching. So there are people who insist ESF must teach Chinese properly, and I just hold the alternative view that they should drop it altogether, it is different sides to the same coin.

We can go on and discuss why we should insist on ESF teaching Chinese properly, but that is like discussing why we should insist on McDonalds dong rice properly, I think we can skip that {:1_1:}