你們認為子女讀英中好還是中中好？

eviepa

nichola~css

比起其他學校來說，啟思中學有甚麼特點呀？

Eviepa

nichola1124

啟思是全港第一間的IB學校,除了中文堂用普通話,其他的堂都是用英語上,可以幫助子女學習英語!!!

jclee

各位:
一口氣看完11頁, 如此高素質的討論在BK真少見(嗯...也許我比較少上來).

雖然Eviepa說討論已經結束, 我倒有個觀察,想跟大家分享:

如果各家長希望子女將來進大學的話, 我想說,英中,中中畢業生絕對有分別(除非貴子女打算主修中國文學或中史).

十多年前我曾在中大任助教, 教的是社會科學, 我和其他的助教都看到英中與中中畢業生的分別:中中畢業生, 就算來自很好的中文中學, 也特別害怕看英文文獻.然而學術界裡重要的文獻都是以英文為主, 中文文獻少之又少, 更別說好的文章.因而中中畢業的同學在寫論文上特別吃虧, 也影響了他們的成績.

我曾特地找了幾個中中畢業生來了解(當然他們能進中大, 都是優秀的學生), 我發現他們一般的英文水平不是差, 但明顯是信心不足, 他們也承認由於中學時少接觸英文之故.

當然也有中中畢業生能克服看英文的問題, 結果成績優秀者.我這裡只是說我觀察到的一般情況.

eviepa

jclee,

你所觀察到的中大情況都是事實，中大由於實行雙語教學，所以任由學生在答試題、寫論文時選擇中文或英文，所以英文差的 (不限中中生) 都可以避開英語文章，單靠閱讀中文文章過關，相對地不像其他院校學生，無論如何都要衝破英語這度障礙，這著實是一個問題。

除了三人外，所有朋友都覺得我女兒應該入讀英中。不過有趣的是，在這三個異見分子當中，有兩個是在中文學校讀中學，中大讀大學的。他們應該對中中、母語教學有最深切的體會。其中一人更對我說： “雖然我的母校不見經傳，但總體來說，我中學同學的成就絕不比英中生差。”

我覺得最理想的中學是母語教育，再加強英語教育。

你可能會嗤之以鼻：你真大貪，怎可能魚與熊掌，兩者兼得？

中學讀文科，準備會考時，花在世界歷史的時間大約為中史的十倍，結果都是拿B。當時，有這樣的想法：如果用中文學習的話，我可以省卻大量時間去研究一些更高層次的學問。

無可否認的是，用母語學習可以省卻大量時間，理論上，只消將這省回來的時間用作英語訓練已足以令英文有優良的表現。當然，欠缺了學校的指揮，要把這理想實行絕不容易。但我願意向難度挑戰，在這填鴨的大氣候下，努力營造一個良好微氣候給女兒。

五年前我就是抱著這心態，找了一間功課特少的直資學校給女兒，就是希望將省下來的時間多做中、英文的閱讀，提升語文水準。有趣的是，這幾年來，我女兒所學的英文，大部分都是在家中獲得，反而學校只退居輔助的位置，抱著參與Play Group，聽聽鬼佬鬼婆講英語的心態而矣。現在，證明這方法極之正確，我有信心，這成功經驗可以一直伸展到高中。

Eviepa

WYmom

eviepa 寫道:

五年前我就是抱著這心態，找了一間功課特少的直資學校給女兒，就是希望將省下來的時間多做中、英文的閱讀，提升語文水準。有趣的是，這幾年來，我女兒所學的英文，大部分都是在家中獲得，反而學校只退居輔助的位置，抱著參與Play Group，聽聽鬼佬鬼婆講英語的心態而矣。現在，證明這方法極之正確，我有信心，這成功經驗可以一直伸展到高中。

Eviepa

Your way of teaching English is OK in primary, but I doubt very much in secondary.  In secondary, students spend most time at school, they become more independent, more affected by peer group rather than by parents.  Homeschooling will no longer work like that in primary years.  Guess you can study more about behaviour of teenagers nowadays.

I won't choose school just because of the language, but would look more seriously at the culture of the secondary schools and quality of students. For CMI, so far only Pui Ching really performs, and it also use English text books with teaching in Chinese.  In TKO, can't identify very good CMI yet.

jclee

Eviepa,

非常欣賞你栽培孩子的用心和努力, 相信你的女兒在你的培養下, 一定會有很大的成就!

不過, 要學好語言, 除了閱讀外, 寫作、運用等也是非常重要。無可否認, 在英中裡, 學生有較多的機會運用英文, 在每個學科上所學到相關的英文, 也會比單純的英語訓練範圍要大得多。例如你用英語學習世界歷史, 過程雖然"痛苦," 然而在不斷回答論述題的過程, 也就鍛鍊了你寫英文文章的能力, 以及學習了與世界歷史相關的字詞, 這些在日常的生活中卻不容易接觸到。

其實這裡還有唸文科、理科的問題, 我自己是在一所很好的英文中學唸理科, 但自覺英語能力要比唸文科的同學差；上大學時轉唸社會科學, 看英文文章不是很大問題, 但頭一兩年寫論文卻費好大的勁。

WYmom說的也有道理, 今天的青少年可真不容易教呢。

ChiChiPaPa

eviepa 寫道:

五年前我就是抱著這心態，找了一間功課特少的直資學校給女兒，就是希望將省下來的時間多做中、英文的閱讀，提升語文水準。有趣的是，這幾年來，我女兒所學的英文，大部分都是在家中獲得，反而學校只退居輔助的位置，抱著參與Play Group，聽聽鬼佬鬼婆講英語的心態而矣。現在，證明這方法極之正確，我有信心，這成功經驗可以一直伸展到高中。

Eviepa

Eviepa

你說：『這成功經驗可以一直伸展到高中。』你的意思是你會找一家功課特少的中文直資中學，是嗎？

eviepa

ChiChiPaPa,

正如前面所講，我會在家附近找一間過得去的中中。讀中中可以省卻很多時間，可以用作進修英語之用。

Eviepa

eviepa

WYmom, jclee,

好 High 呀，這論題到家了第十二頁還有那麼多高人光臨寒舍。你們講的都非常有理，我有很多謬論要發表，不過，十二時多了，明天還要上班，改天再回應。

Eviepa

katyfok

Dear all,
This is a very interesting topic.... all of your have insightful ideas.
Here's some of my thoughts....( sorry donno how to type Chinese)

I'm a CMI graduate....PUI CHING!
Right after high school, I had the luxury of studying abroad.  I went to the States and have lived there for 17 years...

I had pretty good grades in PC so I got accepted in a famous UNIV.... but the school made me complete the ESL program before I was allowed to take higher level classes.
Okay, I had to admit... during the first few months in the States was a disasters... I only speak when I had to ... I even didn't dare to use my ATM card, because I was afraid that if I didn't push the right button, I might lose my card. ( more or so, the person whose behind me might get frustrated).

But of all the language learning factor, I don’t think the most important ingredient is “environment”.

Anyway, my English improved given I worked really hard on it... ( force myself to read out loud newspaper each night, watched tones of TV, made tones of friends, and most helpful, find myself an American boyfriend .. hee hee!). I finished my BS on schedule, and 2 years later, I got a Master 's Degree.

Here's what I'm trying to say.... I know some of you may be planning to send your child abroad anyway...
To those parents, there's really no reason to stress out NOW ! Because learning ENGLISH is HARD when you don't use it.. but it comes soooo natural when you are in the environment.
YEah, some may say, "you had to spend 8 months in ESL because you’re from CMI".... True, but look at it this way, one year to a child is really NOTHING!
What different does it make if your child graduate at the age of 23 or 24?

So if that's your plan, if the school you’re choosing is reputable, CMI or EMI, does it matter??

Also, DON'T UNDER-ESTIMATE CHINESE LANGUAGE
I had many many friends who grad from top collage, had excellent resume... but cannot find a job in HK, even lawyers....why??? they are ABC ( they don't read or write Chinese) Right, these are extreme cases.. but just wanna show you’re the “power" of Chinese language.

I moved back to HK after all these years because I want to provide a CHINESE environment for my children... I want to raise them speaking Chinese and may send them to Chinese school. Later, when they finish 9th grade, they will return to the States. I never worry about them not being able to speak English when they move back ( they’re still 2 years old now) because with the right environment, they’ll be able to pick up really fast.

To those parents who are planning to have their children go to local Univ, I don't think I’m the best person to discuss this topic with....

WYmom

eviepa 寫道:
WYmom, jclee,

好 High 呀，這論題到家了第十二頁還有那麼多高人光臨寒舍。你們講的都非常有理，我有很多謬論要發表，不過，十二時多了，明天還要上班，改天再回應。

Eviepa

eviepa,

I believe my brief personal thoughts I just said is nothing new to you.  Actually I have not read your previous 11 pages because I think that your subject question is too general and generic.  I believe we can only discuss which secondary school is really "good" in terms of teachers, culture, students, languages, cirriculum, results, activities, recognization, prospect etc.

In fact, now there is one more generic issue puzzling me - is the local new cirriculum of most local schools under 334 clear and ready for our kids to study?  In other topics, many parents query about this and start to think changing to follow IB which is more universal.  I even doubt how the top elite schools handle it, and if the results will be widely recognized by Us in other countries.  We just simply cannot wait for years to prove its validity as our kids is going to enter secondary and will be the first few batches to experience it!

Hope you can give me some advice too, though not too relevant to your original question.  

Thanks a lot.

judy

jclee 寫道:
各位:
一口氣看完11頁, 如此高素質的討論在BK真少見(嗯...也許我比較少上來).

雖然Eviepa說討論已經結束, 我倒有個觀察,想跟大家分享:

如果各家長希望子女將來進大學的話, 我想說,英中,中中畢業生絕對有分別(除非貴子女打算主修中國文學或中史).

十多年前我曾在中大任助教, 教的是社會科學, 我和其他的助教都看到英中與中中畢業生的分別:中中畢業生, 就算來自很好的中文中學, 也特別害怕看英文文獻.然而學術界裡重要的文獻都是以英文為主, 中文文獻少之又少, 更別說好的文章.因而中中畢業的同學在寫論文上特別吃虧, 也影響了他們的成績.

我曾特地找了幾個中中畢業生來了解(當然他們能進中大, 都是優秀的學生), 我發現他們一般的英文水平不是差, 但明顯是信心不足, 他們也承認由於中學時少接觸英文之故.

當然也有中中畢業生能克服看英文的問題, 結果成績優秀者.我這裡只是說我觀察到的一般情況.

jclee,

很高興認識你，你說的很有參考價值。以前之教育的确比不上現時的。試想一下，以前有多少中小学生會在課餘拿起課外書的，他們甚麼都背一通，連中史也背，西史更不在話下了。最近出版之世界競争力排名，香港在創意方面之排名竟然落後於新加坡，種瓜得瓜，教育搞不好之報應來了。

我有興趣知道:

1. 那些中中生是第一年怕英文，第ニ、第三年有沒有進步。
2. 你上課是用母語還是用英語？
3. 用英語上課時和母語上課時之氣氛有何不同？
4. 你認為用那種語文上課，更有利於教授和討論。
5. 以我所知，中大當時之收生一般亚於港大，港大全用英文上課，中大基本上是母語，学生畢業後，中大生之成就和港大的有何差距？

judy

In fact, now there is one more generic issue puzzling me - is the local new cirriculum of most local schools under 334 clear and ready for our kids to study? In other topics, many parents query about this and start to think changing to follow IB which is more universal. I even doubt how the top elite schools handle it, and if the results will be widely recognized by Us in other countries. We just simply cannot wait for years to prove its validity as our kids is going to enter secondary and will be the first few batches to experience it!

WYmom,

三三四之精神是在中学階段学好語文和常識，香港天生的双語教育，這己符合IB之精神，數学此一科呢？李天命說過，數学其實也是語言，是科学之語言。

數学科得幾隻英文生字，入英中想用數学科之英文來增進英語能力之人所得實不多，至於常識科，很多英中可能轉回母語教学，而家長好象讚成其做法。換言之，將來很多英中得個壳，希望入讀英中，希望借英文課本以提升其英文能力之家長一定失望。

至於334會否得到承認，真係不用担心。大陸之尖仔仍可到外地升学，香港之尖仔有何不可呢？至於非尖仔到外地升學，不是更容易麽(有錢得啦)？

judy

To those parents, there's really no reason to stress out NOW ! Because learning ENGLISH is HARD when you don't use it.. but it comes soooo natural when you are in the environment.

Agree！

彥彥媽咪

Dear Katyfok:

As a mother of two PC kids, I feel happy that I have the chance to be able to catch up with a mom here who studied at PC before.  I do have a few questions here and wish you may share with me your feedback:

You said : "But of all the language learning factor, I don’t think the most important ingredient is “environment”.

But then you said : "Because learning ENGLISH is HARD when you don't use it.. but it comes soooo natural when you are in the environment. "

==> These two sentences sound a bit contradicting, so do you think ENVIRONMENT is an important factor to nurture good English?  I wonder if I have misunderstood you here?  Please share.

For me, I would say language is something that you will for sure get better and better as long as you keep on using it - no matter Chinese or English.   

I feel so bcos of my past experience.  I consider my English as fluent (even Putonghua), but somehow it dropped quite a lot when I worked for a local organization for 5 years (as that company only used Chinese as a medium of communication, even writing memos/emails).  

Then I feel that I cannot allow myself to lose this ability, so I decided to leave that company and joined various MNCs till now, well...then my trilingual skills "resumed normal" ...cos I need to talk, train and use all these languages everyday - that's why I wonder learning should take place not only at school, but it has to be drilled/sharpened for lifetime.

Therefore, my plan is similar to you (provided that things won't change during time), get the kids trained in HK till they reach 13 or 14 (not confirmed yet, just an initial thought, I am still struggling when is the right time to go) and then send them abroad, so I may "assume" - as you said - their English will get improved as they need to use it ~~ could I conclude it like this?

I do have a few questions in mind here:

1) I had a feeling that most PC parents do have similar plans like me (let the kids finish their primary/secondary education at PC and then send them abroad for overseas education), how do you feel about this?

2) What is your comment about PC as a CMI school, as you said, you also need some time to pick up your English when you first arrived US, so I guess you may feel very frustrated about it, and how did you deal with your emotion at that time? Cos I wonder if my boys are strong enough to handle such a hard time at the beginning when they need to study and live in a country with a totally different learning environment.

3) For all these 17 years that you live in US, how about your Chinese language then?  Can you say that you could still be able to master it well?..or you are now better in English than Chinese?

4)  Am I correct to say that you suggest to send the kids abroad for university education based on what I have seen you wrote above?  If yes, why do you think this is critical?  Or ~~ are there any other alternatives which may achieve the same result (cos I need to plan for contingency just in case that I am not financially sound enough to send all boys away).

5) As a PC graduate, how would you rate/comment the education that you received here in terms of language?

6) Do you think US is a right place to put the kids for university? Or any other places that you may feel OK as well?

I do not expect my kids to have "excellent" language skills, I just wish they could be able to communicate effectively in whatever languages when they need to, that's all.

Appreciate your feedback and hope it won't take you too much time.


(P.S.  To other parents : please excuse me if I have disgressed a bit here from the main topic)     

  

jclee

[quote]
judy 寫道:

jclee,

很高興認識你，你說的很有參考價值。以前之教育的确比不上現時的。試想一下，以前有多少中小

judy

還有一點想強調, 我上述的觀察已是多年前的事, 今天的情況也許不一樣。只是, 根據外子和一些仍在各大學教書的同學所說, 今天的大學生語文水平, 無論是中中生的中文, 或英中生的英文, 都比十多年前差遠了。

jclee

呢點我都覺，我估收生差咗啫。暫取生年代，入U率冇10%，現時40%。

我讀書時大部份用中文，我覺得用英文上課時，明顯大家都靜很多。

jclee

Judy,

你說的是一般的看法,不過, 想想看, 以前只有港大、中大、科大, 進大學的百份比不到10%; 如今有八大, 可是進港大、中大、科大的仍是10%的尖子, 然而這三大學生的語文水平比之以前的下降, 那麼這就是值得重視的問題了。事實上這幾所大學,都在想盡辦法提高學生的語文水平。

至於香港的學生一用英語上課就不敢暢所欲言, 這也是事實;只是本港中小學的教學模式, 本來就不鼓勵學生發言, 我想這點影響更大。

judy 寫道:
jclee

呢點我都覺，我估收生差咗啫。暫取生年代，入U率冇10%，現時40%。

我讀書時大部份用中文，我覺得用英文上課時，明顯大家都靜很多。

sorlo

香港實行普及教育，　學生水準下降就理所當然啦