小 學 咪 催 谷

HuiTung

judy,

妳竟放心比個B佢"靠飛"?  唔一定練倒gar bor, 手勢用錯就會傷筋骨 (尤其養到好肥時), 變成痛苦學習.     

TWMa

講到活動教學, 我都有 d 體驗--- 囡囡既幼稚園正是出名活動教學, 俾人感覺就係玩玩玩. 本著 "唔催谷" 精神, 從未諗過送佢學公文數 or 其他數, 功課淨係見佢寫 1-50, 係屋企又冇 Train 佢, 奇就奇在佢竟然識加減! 同佢講幾時去旅行, 又識日日倒數提住我   前幾日拿了本小一中英數基本能力測驗題問佢, 答到喎.
學校要做到從遊戲中學習真係好高難度架, 每種 "遊戲" 一定要經過設計, 有遊戲既目的, 有事後既要求, 以我所知, 好多所謂活動教學或者愉快學習既幼稚園, 頂多都係 "活動一下，再教學"
隨著不同的年齡有不同的學習要求, 無論用那種 教學模式/學習方法 都要先有基礎, 基礎怎麼來? 最終總難避免記憶背誦的要求.
於我, 最差劣的學習方式只有一種--- 過量抄寫、死記硬背、照本宣科、不求甚解.

ykwong

咁齊人！搭下嘴先:

wunma 寫道:
Judy,

你大少咁都得? 如果每日抱兩野, 改改抱恣, 再加上"愉快學習，效果更佳"的訓練下, 三兩年後便能成為武林高手, 你早就做左天下第一高手啦 - 揍大左兩個勒!

錯！錯！錯！

第一、佢唔買"愉快學習，效果更佳"。既然唔信，事倍功半！

第二、佢應已自覺係高手。唔係"早就做左..."

最後，邊個做左隻 copycat，用左我嗰"大少"寳號！

dickeywei33

我真係分唔到我個小朋友係咩型

麟媽媽

judy,

你亞大少都好掂bor！難得你放心比佢抱細B，
你可以休息吓喇！
我近排養左隻貓，我既心肝仔黎架，
都成10磅有多架，我仔有時抬佢係shoulders，
真的有d似抬豬......睇到我鬼咁肉赤。

唔好意思入來「爹」兩句...走人唔阻你地吓.....


咦....點解呢個鐘數yk會浦頭？！

Leolonglongma

twma,

同意！　　我個仔都在九龍城出名活動教學幼稚園就讀, 講明無催谷, k3默書, 老師會叫你自己寫幾個自己覺得識寫的字, 但佢o地o個種自我發現, 研究, 同自信敢言的表現, 並非在每間幼稚園學生身上找到, 所以一有機會我都向人推薦此學校, 連教統局對他們的評價都表示沒有可再挑剔, 要求改進的地方!

youma

Lochan,

1. 你第一日識Judy?

2. I guess you are working in a multinational or prestigious firm, hence no surprise many many of your colleagues studied aboard and are now successful. If you want to use a few specific cases to prove that all or most of the students who are so-so in primary/secondary schools must do well in university/career, it seems a logically mistake.  

3. I believe your son is very smart and self-motivated. And. surely you are well educated. You know how to train him up by yourself and need not rely on the school to feed your son. But bear in mind that there are many so-so kids in HK who have so-so parents. If they cannot build a good foundation at the primary stage, I am afraid most of them will still be so-so in later stage of education. It's my personal observation.

4. I dare to say that almost all primary schools in HK are happy, not just your son's school is happy! But why some students sometimes looks unhappy? You have given the answers before - I need not repeat in details. In simple words, it is because these kids' abilities do not meet the expectation of the school and their parents - a kind of mismatching that need to be rectified.

5. I know your son's school has little homework. But you should know that many of your son's classmates got only 20-30 marks in the English, Chinese & Math exams. Do you know that they are being pushed by their parents (& school) to do supplementary exercises or attending extra tuition classes? Don't tell me that they are happy!  

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Youma,
This time, I will slightly disagree with you
You are right, happy school does not guarantee your child's future. But I think even those happy school will teach you how to respect each other as individual, be taught to be creative, be taught that only sky's the limit though in a different approach.

Sometimes, parents does not really need to work that hard if the school can give the child most of what they need to develop. Physically, don't feel GUILTY if you don't need to sit beside your child, bring up your strenght of your inner universe to do homework with him. But mentally, do work hard to monitor his progress and behaviour.

Call me lazy, I 'd rather spend more time playing with him (OK OK at least play educationally) than to restrain him to sit down to do tedious homework. What can be learnt from school is only a drop of water in the ocean, if a child can learn the method on how to acquire knowledge from the world at school, he can easily swim in the ocean with ease after he graduated.

One thing I'm sure, in a happy school, the children will be more willing to acquire more knowledge automatically, happily and unconsciously. The children will be able to look at things in a wider spectrum, be creative, be bold to ask question, to challenge authorities, be brave to disagree. In the end, these kind of chidren can survive in the society readily when they grow up, agree?
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youma

Judy,
1. 我都有一排試過你大少的練功法, 武林高手當然做不成, 腰酸骨痛就有.

2. 你阿B似你麼? 我估一定很佻皮了? :
祝阿B快高長大, 人見人愛

3. 你的{鶏U}一詞令我聯想起{中中}一詞. 我認為如果教統仍讓{中中}這個制度和名詞延續下去, 要廣大讀中中的同學一生背負著這個負面標簽, 實在對不起他們, 太不公道了. :-|

lochan

Youma,
I am glad to share opinions with all intelligent and dedicated parents here incl. you and Judy.


1. 你第一日識Judy?
-------------------------------------------------
Well, I have no adverse feeling on her style, in fact, as I said earlier, I am amused sometimes even. Just that this time, I think she has gone over the board.
Do you think so Judy?


2. I guess you are working in a multinational or prestigious firm, hence no surprise many many of your colleagues studied aboard and are now successful. If you want to use a few specific cases to prove that all or most of the students who are so-so in primary/secondary schools must do well in university/career, it seems a logically mistake.
-----------------------------------------------------
I don't consider the firm I'm working a bit prestigious at all. In fact, the firm is multinational. Meaning my colleagues graduated from everywhere, HK, UK, OZ, Canada and a few from Chicken U in States (hehe..)which I think at least 50% of them or even more came from HKU. We bear different backgrounds.

Mind you , I did not say that those who did so-so must do well, I am not trying to convince students to achieve so-so results in order to perform well in Univ. abroad! I'm just trying to say that they are not few in terms of number since I know many many friends, friends' friends, colleagues who are in similar case.
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3. I believe your son is very smart and self-motivated. And surely you are well educated. You know how to train him up by yourself and need not rely on the school to feed your son. But bear in mind that there are many so-so kids in HK who have so-so parents. If they cannot build a good foundation at the primary stage, I am afraid most of them will still be so-so in later stage of education. It's my personal observation.
----------------------------------------------
I just let the school train him up in terms of academics. I only train him on how to behave and right and wrong which already is a difficult task.

I wished he were more self starting and self assertive and that's what we are aiming for him to become. I do believe that every child has its own unique path in terms of growing up. Some may excel at early stage but some blossom much later, some even got enlightened all of a sudden w/o any signs (every parents' dream kid!) parents need to be patient, take it easy and not feeling disappointed. Every one has his own destiny.



4. I dare to say almost all schools in HK are happy, not just your son's school is happy! But why some students sometimes looks unhappy? You have given the answers before - I need not repeat in details. In simple words, it is because these kids' abilities do not meet the expectation of the school and their parents - a kind of mismatching that need to be rectified.
---------------------------------------------------
Agree agree and agree except a few prestigious school which thrive on driving the kids over the limit.

5. I know your son's school has little homework. But you should know that many of your son's classmates got only 20-30 marks in the English, Chinese & Math exams. Do you know that they are being pushed by their parents (& school) to do supplementary exercises or attending extra tuition classes? Don't tell me that they are happy!  
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Fortunately, they do not grade P.1 children. But soon they will in P.2. Well the school has too much HW to my likings. I think HW is considered too much when the child gets restless and tired of doing it. Also, I 'd rather play with him as I said before instead of giving him "Gai-jin" suppl. exc.

To me I set a high standard for him to achieve, that is to try his best irregardless of the results.


P.S. I've spoken to some of my colleagues who graduated from HKU and they share the same view as I do about the discrepancies of local education and had chosem to send their siblings to "happy schools" in TKO

cheers,
lochan

kookooloo

         講得好！        

         絕對同意！         

HuiTung

用"鶏U"呢個詞係俗d, 我會理解為三、四流大學.  咁三、四流大學對學生的performance standard, 又係咪等同一、二流的大學?  外國人有大學學位較普遍, 隨時一個巴士司機都係大學生, 正常情況你一定唔會估佢係來自Harvard, Yale 掛?!  

TWMa

Judy:
你家大少是否能成為武林高手, 視乎佢是否同你講左真話---
其一, 如你表面觀察所得, 佢日日淨係重力訓練,同埋學習應變, BB 唔肥, 唔好話武林高手, 老鼠仔都見唔到啊, 為左有最低要求, 你真係要俾心機養肥個 B
其二, 可能你家大少發現原來抱阿三可以激發佢內功 (注意, 抱阿大同阿二可能冇呢個效果), 所以, 表面上, "愉快學習", 實際上, 真係得架

judy

寫大少練功，最想聽到的是: “批死佢實練唔成”，我也批佢練唔成。平心而論，大少自制之活動教學法的确完美，真正是不知不覺中且樂在其中地練功，且對我，對阿B，對自已都好，維一缺點是達不到目的。

徒弟拜師之教案，也是真正之活動教學，但徒弟快樂嗎？徒弟抱猪来回，唔悶麽？唔辛苦麼？他不抱猪，改為趕猪，你又如何？假使徒弟不抱猪，改為傳統練法，那種較有樂趣、那種較有效呢？在我看来，徒弟拜師是為活動而活動之教學，比活動一下，再教學之方法差得多。

“两兄弟，一哈佛，一非哈佛”之故事，經過一輪推谷後，小的入哈佛，但讀完書，不願工作。反而受到忽略的哥哥，在不知名U畢業，事業反而有成。家長於是感慨良多，反思推谷之害處。我看後又覺好笑。既然那麽注重自然不推谷，讀哈佛不工作又有何不好呢？誰說讀完書一定要工作的，誰說讀完書一定要有事業的，為甚麽讀書時可不計較成績，只求快樂，讀完書為甚麽却要計較事業，不給快樂呢？又有誰能保証讀哈佛的，不能一鳴驚人呢？可見，不計不計還要計，而且計得過份，有點只求收獲，不望付出。

佢唔買"愉快學習，效果更佳"

YK，

你知唔知你咁講即係insulting我，你當我係傻仔，話我唔知"愉快學習，效果更佳"這個道理，學阿Lochan話，你大大傷害佐我。

我不單相信"愉快學習，效果更佳"，我還切實執行，每天見阿大阿二，我第一句問的多數是 “今日上學開唔開心阿”之類。晚上，阿大阿二不用做功課和温書(家規不能做)，除了每周一周記，没有額外練習。阿大話他开始寫日記(其實是記得就記)，連周記也省了。总之，阿大阿二快樂得不得了，可能比你大少還快樂，除非你能証明你家大少有更好之效果，不然，你不能說你大少學習得比我阿大阿二愉快，"愉快學習，效果更佳"嘛。

我不單切實執行，還鼓吹，所以我大力支持母語教學，很多人舉美國教育和香港比，假設港人不用學英文，美國鬼仔要學中文，每周9堂，中文課本，教師上堂用中文，鬼仔要用中文回答。邊個更Happy，邊個更有創意，我一定話香港。

除此之外，我還支持教改，因為教改朝"愉快學習”之方向進行。

lochan

Judy,

“两兄弟，一哈佛，一非哈佛”之故事，經過一輪推谷後，小的入哈佛，但讀完書，不願工作。反而受到忽略的哥哥，在不知名U畢業，事業反而有成。家長於是感慨良多，反思推谷之害處。我看後又覺好笑。既然那麽注重自然不推谷，讀哈佛不工作又有何不好呢？誰說讀完書一定要工作的，誰說讀完書一定要有事業的，為甚麽讀書時可不計較成績，只求快樂，讀完書為甚麽却要計較事業，不給快樂呢？又有誰能保証讀哈佛的，不能一鳴驚人呢？可見，不計不計還要計，而且計得過份，有點只求收獲，不望付出。

This time I do agree with you in certain extent.
I think the bro. graduated from  Harvard is very happy now and doing things (or not to do a thing) he wanted to do. If he knew, he would have choosen not to go to Harvard and do things he wanted to, which is much less painstaking. At the same time, the younger bro. is happy too without having to work his buxx out but still doing well. I keep thinking, is there an easier way out in terms of educating a child such that he doesn't have to face 2-3 hrs of homework every day. A good observation is from Wunma, at our old days, our standard in P.1-P.6 is definitely much much lower compare to today's local education standard but yet we still manage to learn all the things in Univ. I recall I spend maybe half an hour to one hour max. to finish homework every day (which today I still think I don't really I needed it) not that I am quick.

In HK, general perception of being successful is to have a reputable job, preferrably a professional such as doctor, accountant, lawyer etc., earning decent money, have a mortgage, a car, one or two kids, a dog maybe, or even a Inland Golf Club Membership? Is this really all that we are after? Of course, financially it is, but that's it? I don't have an answer to it.

When choosing subjects in U, we seldom choose based on personal interest. A lot of parents will say
"Eng. literature can't feed you and your family, are you crazy!!" or
"Geograpghy, isn't it high school subject?"

Some parents who forced their kids to take music lessons but at the same time forced them out of getting into Academy of Music when they grew up.

ykwong

你知唔知你咁講即係insulting我，你當我係傻仔，話我唔知"愉快學習，效果更佳"這個道理，學阿Lochan話，你大大傷害佐我。

咁大指控，唔應下唔得。嗱！你同 lochan 唔同，佢明明話錯 youma，又唔認。不過佢地言歸於好。都係咪多嘴。唔係你位怨婦 friend 又孔孟一番。唔記得恭喜 stccmc，頂左我個位坐 鬧人咪鬧人籮，洗セ次次都兜大大個圈，唔通咁會高貴ｄ咩！

我都係撩事鬥非。講番正題。但唔記得原本想講乜，(鬧人係會令人失去理智既! see!)求其發下風：

有人話，成功係靠一分天份，九分努力。所以只要我地肯努力，係冇野克服唔到。唔得！係因為未盡全力。之所以有催谷 ，no pain, no gain 之說。

好奇怪，冇人會要求一個智力有缺憾既人讀好書。ヌ係人都認同就算肯苦練，都唔會人人可成李雲迪，劉翔，張大千。

但我又多次响 BK 遇到ｄ出色嘅網友，話我知就算我四張野先學彈琴拉琴，都唔會有問題。最離奇既，佢地一致認為讀書冇難度。有位漁民網友話中四先認識到讀書有用，自此科科攞Ａ；有位又訴說只要用岩方法，就位列唔知乜野全球最佳嗰一個 % 。

點解有ｄ野要有天份加努力、有ｄ野就只要肯努力、有ｄ野就唔洗有天份同努力，只要方法岩就可以成功。

答案只有一個，就係全部都係錯既！

セ野先係真理？ sorry，我唔知，只知條條大路通羅馬。但有ｄ路有前人行過，有較佳保証(但時代不斷轉变)；有ｄ新路好似易行ｄ，但實質上條路一定要鋪得好好先至會行到目的地。

"愉快學習，效果更佳"呢句說話，一定冇錯。但去唔去到目的地，仍要睇天份，努力同方法呢三大元素。

當然最重要還是：目的地係乜。人生既目的，同讀書既目的又有冇必然關係？我諗每人答案未必一樣。為揾食，梗係想行條懚陣ｄ既路。我比較清高，唔覺得讀好書(指成績)係為將來揾食鋪路。

所以，唔同阿大比併啦！凡事一墮入"比較"陷阱，沒完沒了。雖然我愛孩子，不愛面子，但我必須承認，大少岩岩比我鬧完，並不"愉快"！我同大家一樣：充滿矛盾

ykwong

duplicated