Any Reservations on International Schools?

WYmom

ChiChiPaPa,

Thanks for your suggestion.  Yes, RC is one of the alternative.  Only that the location may be a bit too far for us.   Will consider.

In my case, the elder one won't help too much as she is going to College soon.  She will be very much occupied with her work and her peers.  I am happy already if my 2 kids don't quarrel so much!!

agneslth

ChiChiPaPa,

很欣賞你那麼正面的看事情，視困難為挑戰，這是很好的做人態度！

我也認為升中試總比現況好，起碼公平一點。

「由小學升上中學，是一個不同能力的學生和不同水平的學校的一個匹配過程。高能力的學生去水準高的學校，讓他可以發揮。普通能力的學生去一般水平的學校，使得他有適合他水平的教學課程。」>> 理論上這是合理的，但必需要配合一個能真正全面地反映孩子學習能力的考核制度。

現在的？每間學校也有不同標準，但考得最好的也是那類記憶力強，有良好答題技考，能熟讀某一範圍的知識的孩子！我認識不少在band 1中學任教的老師，他們也認為不少所謂 band 1 學生只是考試的機器，課外知識薄弱，閱讀能力欠佳，腦筋不靈活，只懂接受別人「餵」知識。這類學生面對思考要求較高的新學制，是不易適應的。

「強行把一位第二組別的小朋友在小五、小六，變成第一組別，並不是一件好事情。」>> 怎能在孩子還是那麼小的時候就判定某個孩子是屬哪一組別呢？每個孩子也有不同潛質，怎能以單一方式去比高下呢？

再者，在不少學校的實況是，有100個學生，個個能力相若，卻硬要一刀切的分出50個band 1 和50個band 2來。排名第50的與排名第51的，一樣努力讀書，學習能力不相上下，程度也極接近，但那被歸入band 2 的學生，選校權便被大大的削減，極可能被所有band 1中學拒諸門外，只能選無論是學術水平和校風也次一級的學校。有哪個家長會甘心讓孩子成為第51個或以後的？這不是惡性競爭是甚麼？

「IB課程唔係冇風險的。只係現在香港開辦IBDP的課程都是不錯的國際學校，所以大家睇不到讀IB的風險。」>> 同意，所以我亦是對部份開辦IB的直資學校有所保留的。我讓兒子入讀的是有十多年辦學經驗的國際學校 (設有AP course 的)，其課程有廣泛的國際認受性，日後往外地和本地大學升學也較有保障。

ChiChiPaPa寫道：

我喜歡升中試，多過現在的升學制度。

不過，由小學升上中學，是一個不同能力的學生和不同水平的學校的一個匹配過程。高能力的學生去水準高的學校，讓他可以發揮。普通能力的學生去一般水平的學校，使得他有適合他水平的教學課程。

強行把一位第二組別的小朋友在小五、小六，變成第一組別，並不是一件好事情。去到不適當的學校，可能會失去學習的興趣和動力。我覺得不需要太介意成績和任何考核的結果，這些都不代表孩子的將來。學習的態度和面對失敗和挑戰的勇氣更為重要。

我經常鼓勵女兒去接受學習上的挑戰。我都相信高小將會為我這位家長和她帶來更多的挑戰和考驗。

IB 課程唔係冇風險的。只係現在香港開辦IBDP的課程都是不錯的國際學校，所以大家睇不到讀IB的風險。我問過妳AP和IB的比較，因為我知道如果IB讀唔掂的影嚮幾大，除了repeat，可以話冇乜出路。IB是一張整體的Cert，不是每科獨立計，不像美加的AP或英國的GCSE，IB要每個範疇都選些科目，學生的能力要文理兼備。如果冇24分，Cert都冇。低過28分，升大學會有困難。IB不是個別國家的學制，所以冇國家為低分的學生安排大學以外的升學出路。

agneslth

WYmom 寫道:
JennyL,

ESF is very good school.  Only that it is not easy to get a seat, even siblings need to queue up.  From my experience, IS can develop the kids to be more confident, independent, all-rounded, open-minded and self-motivated.

想問一下，是不是不同的 ESF 學校的學術水平存在著很大的參差？教師的流失情況 (turn over rate) 又如何呢？

謝謝

mattsmum

今天才得知那些終極試是怎樣由來的:

ChiChiPaPa

Agneslth，

無論是在社會或學校，都要處理這種競合關係。我們和同事之間，也存在這種既在各自在表現上競爭，又在日常工作上合作的關係。孩子在求學時期，就應該對這種競合關係有所認識，和用正面和正確的態度去看待和處理。不應把它視為惡性競爭。不要被分數和Banding騙了，學習不是零和的遊戲。在學習過程中，和同學之間充份的合作，互相交流，大家在能力上都可有長足的增長。這不是分數和Banding可以告訴大家的。

選擇學校的確要很小心。應該盡量了解每一所學校的優劣，然後作出選擇。Band 2，甚至Band 3，也有好學校。何況現在已有不少新的直資中學。海外升學也可以是一個選擇。我會考慮每一個可能，並作出準備。

WYmom

agneslth 寫道:
想問一下，是不是不同的 ESF 學校的學術水平存在著很大的參差？教師的流失情況 (turn over rate) 又如何呢？
謝謝

agneslth,

As far as I know, ESF has a systematic guideline for all schools to follow, the different academic standard is due to the difference in student profiles and student mix of different schools.  Schools in Kowloon and NT always have very long queue as the population covered by the catchment areas is higher.

I did not notice high teachers turn over.

agneslth

WYmom,

Thanks for your info!

WYmom 寫道:
[quote]
agneslth 寫道:
想問一下，是不是不同的 ESF 學校的學術水平存在著很大的參差？教師的流失情況 (turn over rate) 又如何呢？
謝謝  

agneslth,

As far as I know, ESF has a systematic guideline for all schools to follow, the different academic standard is due to the difference in student profiles and student mix of different schools.  Schools in Kowloon and NT always have very long queue as the population covered by the catchment areas is higher.

I did not notice high teachers turn over.[/quote]

ChiChiPaPa,

「無論是在社會或學校，都要處理這種競合關係。我們和同事之間，也存在這種既在各自在表現上競爭，又在日常工作上合作的關係。孩子在求學時期，就應該對這種競合關係有所認識，和用正面和正確的態度去看待和處理。不應把它視為惡性競爭。」>> 競爭是良性或惡性，很大程度上取決於競爭的源頭：來自一刀切的banding制度，我看不到「良」在何處？只有身在其中，才會明白那種壓力。

良性的競爭，在小兒就讀的國際學校內就完完全全感受得到。

「不要被分數和Banding騙了，學習不是零和的遊戲。在學習過程中，和同學之間充份的合作，互相交流，大家在能力上都可有長足的增長。這不是分數和Banding可以告訴大家的。」>> 同意。所以更應挪開那個會阻礙學生愉快學習和交流的banding機制，不應硬把學生以banding 來標簽其學習能力屬「強」屬「弱」，要知道，學生一旦被標簽為band 2 或band 3，他的入學 / 選校權即大受削弱。

「選擇學校的確要很小心。應該盡量了解每一所學校的優劣，然後作出選擇。Band 2，甚至Band 3，也有好學校。何況現在已有不少新的直資中學。海外升學也可以是一個選擇。我會考慮每一個可能，並作出準備。」>> 也很同意。可惜在現行機制下，家長不可能並列考慮入讀直資學校或官津校，因兩者的申請結果並不是同時公報的，要選官津校便等如放棄入讀直資學校，而在放棄心儀直資學校的同時，也不代表一定能入讀心儀的官津校，因為在自行收生階段的結果 (不計偷步提早發信的「名校」) 要在七月連同電腦派位結果才一起公佈。若只考慮入讀官、津校的家長，即使學生有band 1 的成績，也要有心理準備去面對孩子派不到心儀中學 (因僧多粥少)，而不知會派到哪一所學校的風險。

若海外升學也是一個選擇 (個人覺得孩子在中學階段，是價值觀、人生觀形成的重要時期，家庭教育極重要，故不會較慮)， 那確是可以減輕不少升學壓力的。

mattsmum，

妳提供的資料很好。 謝謝！

joyfung

My son studied in Clearwater Bay School for primary education and graduated with very good academic achievements. CWBS is a good school. It has a good location too (near HKUST). My son is now in KGV. He and his classmates (those come from CWBS also) have good academic achievements now in KGV and behave good also.
My daughter is still in P2 (CWBS also). She enjoys her studies and playtimes as well.  

KaKaYa

agneslth,
RC / BHS / ICS/ CAIS is better for your daughter to study in K3 or Year 1. Please share your experience of the school facilities, teacher qualification, student the standard each one is better for kids development. e.g: Canadian Cirrculum or IB ...etc.
Thanks!

agneslth

KaKaYa 寫道:
agneslth,
RC / BHS / ICS/ CAIS is better for your daughter to study in K3 or Year 1. Please share your experience of the school facilities, teacher qualification, student the standard each one is better for kids development. e.g: Canadian Cirrculum or IB ...etc.
Thanks!

K3 or year 1 for my daughter? She is a teenager...

I have no idea of which IS kinder is better in HK, and I believe that there is no so called the "best" / "better" IS in HK, for the best school is the one which suits your kid most. CAIS is my cup of tea.What I can also tell is that, some of my friends' kids study in BSH, RC and ICS, so far they are all very much satisfied with their schools.

inho

WYmom 寫道:
inho,

You are right, My daughter and some of my  friends' kids studied in local schools for 3 years and then switched to ESF to continue up.  It is not an easy path and it also needs a lot of luck.
We are lucky as in that year ESF opened a few more classes in some primary schools to clear up a bit the very long queue of waiting list.  Now, they have opened 2 new private schools to meet the demand.

Keeping up the kids' English to a high standard is a more difficult task for me than Chinese.  So I am also looking for alternative paths for my younger kid now.  

Your kid is already in ESF, right?  What's your worries?

WYmom,

I am not worried about their education there.
I just treat here as a platform for discussion.
Parents may open up more discussion topics.

inho

Dear Joyfung,

Congratulations! KGV is the oldest and a famous one in ESF schools. Many graduates are high academic achievers.

What did you and other parents in CWBS do to enhance your kid's learning and academic achievement? Would you please share? Thanks!   

joyfung 寫道:
My son studied in Clearwater Bay School for primary education and graduated with very good academic achievements. CWBS is a good school. It has a good location too (near HKUST). My son is now in KGV. He and his classmates (those come from CWBS also) have good academic achievements now in KGV and behave good also.
My daughter is still in P2 (CWBS also). She enjoys her studies and playtimes as well.  

inho

agneslth 寫道:
[quote]
WYmom 寫道:
JennyL,

ESF is very good school.  Only that it is not easy to get a seat, even siblings need to queue up.  From my experience, IS can develop the kids to be more confident, independent, all-rounded, open-minded and self-motivated.

想問一下，是不是不同的 ESF 學校的學術水平存在著很大的參差？教師的流失情況 (turn over rate) 又如何呢？

謝謝 [/quote]

Dear agneslth,

I don't think '不同的 ESF 學校的學術水平存在著很大的參差'. '參差' means some are good while others are bad. All ESf schools are generally good, only that some are more preferred by parents on different grounds.

ESF schools are good since:
1) Many graduates went to the best universities over the world.
2) Attempting IB, students still have outstanding academic performance.
3) I don't have the impression that 教師的流失情況 (turn over rate) is high. In fact, ESF is the biggest education system with Englsih as a medium of instruction in Asia. The package for teaching staff is generous. That's why ESF can recruit teachers globally and can attract the best candidates.   
4) With the British tradition, ESF has been under the inspection system to ensure its quality.   

:wink:

agneslth

Dear inho,

Thanks for your detailed reply : ) ！

Actually I had read an article posted 2 years ago, in which mentioned about the quality of ESF primary schools as follows:

「英基7校教學欠佳 10小學首個自評報告水平參差
6月 3日 星期五

【明報專訊】被審計署批評「管理不善、浪費公帑」 的英基學校協會，公布成立40年來首個視學報告。報告綜合10所小學表現，反映教學質素參差，除其中3所小學水平良好外，其餘7所小學平均兩成課堂教學水 平欠佳（unsatisfactory），最嚴重一所的教學欠佳課堂比例更高達31%。英基教育發展總監甘榮恩形容，報告部分內容令人失望，但已作出改進。

http://hk.news.yahoo.com/050602/12/1d4in.html」

That is why I have a little doubt about the quality of ESF schools.


Any update info regarding this subject?

inho 寫道:
[quote]
agneslth 寫道:
[quote]
WYmom 寫道:
JennyL,

ESF is very good school.  Only that it is not easy to get a seat, even siblings need to queue up.  From my experience, IS can develop the kids to be more confident, independent, all-rounded, open-minded and self-motivated.

想問一下，是不是不同的 ESF 學校的學術水平存在著很大的參差？教師的流失情況 (turn over rate) 又如何呢？

謝謝 [/quote]

Dear agneslth,

I don't think '不同的 ESF 學校的學術水平存在著很大的參差'. '參差' means some are good while others are bad. All ESf schools are generally good, only that some are more preferred by parents on different grounds.

ESF schools are good since:
1) Many graduates went to the best universities over the world.
2) Attempting IB, students still have outstanding academic performance.
3) I don't have the impression that 教師的流失情況 (turn over rate) is high. In fact, ESF is the biggest education system with Englsih as an medium of instruction in Asia. The package for teaching staff is generous. That's why ESF can recruit teachers globally and can attract the best candidates.   
4) With the British tradition, ESF has been under the inspection system to ensure its quality.   

:wink: [/quote]

nintendo

agneslth 寫道:


That is why I have a little doubt about the quality of ESF schools.

有 doubt 就唔好讀囉；你估你話想去讀就實收你？
尤其係讀開 local school，好多英文都唔夠班，想插班都唔係咁易。
話時話，你都幾關心 ESF，亦幾鍥而不捨。

  

Saturn

nintendo 寫道:
[quote]
agneslth 寫道:


That is why I have a little doubt about the quality of ESF schools.

有 doubt 就唔好讀囉；你估你話想去讀就實收你？
尤其係讀開 local school，好多英文都唔夠班，想插班都唔係咁易。
話時話，你都幾關心 ESF，亦幾鍥而不捨。

   [/quote]

Nintendo,

你講嘢都幾抵死，不過好有point.  I like it!　

Saturn.

nintendo

[quote]
Saturn 寫道:

Nintendo,

你講

Cayenne

nintendo 寫道:
[quote]
agneslth 寫道:


That is why I have a little doubt about the quality of ESF schools.

有 doubt 就唔好讀囉；你估你話想去讀就實收你？
尤其係讀開 local school，好多英文都唔夠班，想插班都唔係咁易。
話時話，你都幾關心 ESF，亦幾鍥而不捨。

   [/quote]
If you are an ESF parent /student, which I doubt, then you just confirmed  her doubts.
If you are not an ESF parent / student, then what's the point  of your bitching ?  A case of sour grapes perhaps ?

WYmom

agneslth,

Seems that even though your kid is in CAIS, you are very concerned about ESF, still keeping news posted 2 years ago.  The report you quoted was a self-evaluation, and ESF has done a lot of things to improve, including changing CEO.  I think its schools are very good so far which keep on improving all aspects.  I will look at the exam results and the overseas U allocation of different IS  for decision.  

CAIS also has some negative news previously regarding its management.  So every school has some areas requiring improvements all the time.  Most important thing is that the school recognizes its weakness and keeps on improving rather than defending.

agneslth

Dear WYmom,

Thanks for your reply.

I must admit that may be the news regarding ESF I posted in my last comment provoked uncomfortable feelings among ESF parents, I don't mean to offend anyone, as I have joined this BK for several months, I think this is one of the thread where I can meet so many nice parents who are really sharing in a geniune and open-minded way. I sincere apologize for any negative feelings aroused by my comment.

Actually I came across this news at times when I was beginning to choose international school for my son about 2 years ago, that is, before we decided to choose CAIS for him. Besides, my sister's daughter is admitted to BHS the coming term, which is one of the reasons why I have concerns about ESF schools.

You are definitely right; every school has its pros and cons. I think the consistency of my positive attitude (as you may read from other comments I made in this BK) towards other IS, including ESF, can support the fact that I totally agreed with your point: “So every school has some areas requiring improvements all the time. Most important thing is that the school recognizes its weakness and keeps on improving rather than defending.”

WYmom 寫道:
agneslth,

Seems that even though your kid is in CAIS, you are very concerned about ESF, still keeping news posted 2 years ago.  The report you quoted was a self-evaluation, and ESF has done a lot of things to improve, including changing CEO.  I think its schools are very good so far which keep on improving all aspects.  I will look at the exam results and the overseas U allocation of different IS  for decision.  

CAIS also has some negative news previously regarding its management.  So every school has some areas requiring improvements all the time.  Most important thing is that the school recognize its weakness and keeps on improving rather than defending.