Comment on 耀中國際學校(九龍塘)

Zhi

It seems that most of the problems disclosed by Tasha, etc, pertain to their secondary school. Our kids started studying at YC's kindergarten. My older daughter is now in YC lower primary, and so far we are quite satisfied with the overall quality of the school. Having said that, we are only going to take YC one year at a time. We definitely will not consider YC for their secondary schooling.

YC-MOM

我都認識有一  d YC 學生去了 PLK CKY。
聽轉了校的同學仔講，PLK CKY 英文程度比 YC 還要低得多，不過中文就較難。

不過, 聞說 PLK CKY 係跟 YC curriculum 的.

應該唔係跟， YC 用的，係英國 cirriculum 的，唔係自創的。

Saturn

I heard from a PLK CKY parent's comment that their English standard could be compared with YC.  Does it mean CKY's Eng. standard is still low?  I heard that started from Sept 2006, CKY employed quite a lot of Native Eng. teachers.  The NAT teachers' percentage in the school have become almost as high as IS.  Anyone knows about it?  I'm not a CKY parent, but just curious about the standard of the school.

father_ho

May be I can provide some input to the discussion since I am a CKY parent. Every school must have some below and above standard student and the situation even significant in IS or IS like school. It all depends on family cares and since IS is much relax in terms of designated homework, this can give lots of freedom for student to explore and develop more meaningful aspect. If in the worse case, family does not provide such ingredient, no matter how good the school should be, you cannot expect the outcome is excellent. That is why parent should choose the right school for their kid, passive kid and busy parent actually is not suitable for IS like school(just my view). As reflected from my elder kid, the standard of higher grade did varies a lot but for my younger daughter, she said not much difference except Chinese subject for some from kids from IS kindergarden. Fair to say, YC's academic structure is good but as heard from this topic, may be it is software problem. Also, parent can discuss with the workers in the school, they may give you a true picture of what's the actual student behavior (that's what I did) rather than just listen to the related parties.

bebe1217

我而家都好worry , 因為我仔可能將會入讀Y2, 但聽完Tasha 既意見, 令我都卻步及重申再考慮一下, 是否應該比仔仔入讀, 咁你女女係YC 讀邊級架 ?? 佢平時d 功課, 同學習進度如何?? 學校有無考試 , 測驗 or dictation ??? 學校既課外活動多嗎 ??? 因為我仔而家幼稚園程度都好深, 有d 都有小二, 三既程度, 仲要考埋cambridge , 吾知佢入左去, 會吾會吾適應呢 ?? 但我先生幾想仔仔入YC...攪到而家仲15, 16    THANKS~~~

Zhi 寫道:
It seems that most of the problems disclosed by Tasha, etc, pertain to their secondary school. Our kids started studying at YC's kindergarten. My older daughter is now in YC lower primary, and so far we are quite satisfied with the overall quality of the school. Having said that, we are only going to take YC one year at a time. We definitely will not consider YC for their secondary schooling.

Tasha

家長與學生期待多時的新校舍終於啓用了,很多家長都期盼一個新的開始.但新的校舍真的會帶來曙光嗎?新校舍無疑會吸引更多學生報讀耀中,在客源增加的情况下.恐怕學校對家長的訴求 (改善教學質素),更加致若妄聞.面對家長對debenture 的不滿,學校境然曾作如此回應 :”家長有權選擇學校”說得明白一点.即是”唔高興咪走人囉”.這是甚麽咀臉? 別說是辦學,就是做生意也是極其拙劣的態度.

隨着新校舍啓用,學校會增收學生,根据學校網頁資料,學校最多可容納 1240個學生. 到時Year 7-11有8班,每班有25人, Year 12 -13 有５班,每班24人.即是說比現時學生人數多了大約一倍. 近年耀中灠收插班生導致整體英語水平低落已是眾所週知的事,若再多收一倍恐怕情况更加惡劣. 現時 Yr 6約有百多個學生, 到了 Yr７突然變了200人, 額外的學生從何而來呢? 國際學校之間,學生互相轉校本是平常事.但很少聽聞有別的國際學校學生轉到耀中,反之從耀中轉走的大有人在,尤其是完成小學而又成績優異的.多年來聽過轉到 ESF (KGV, SC), CIS, GSIS, HKIS 甚致是傳統名校, 除了ESF外,其他的學費都和耀中相距不遠,而HKIS的debenture更高達50萬.大部份成績好的學生都不在耀中升中學, 升了的到了Year 9 Year 10 亦流失很多, 聽過一個個案,有家長帶着兩個孩子從國內耀中轉到香港,讀了不過幾個月,急急把孩子轉走,為甚麽?女

靚bb

Hi all

My son will be 2 years old in Mar and i'm interested in YC's classes.  However, I found from the website that there are many different programmes, e.g. Romper Learning, Two's Programme, and Mainstream programme offered for 2 years old kid.  Can any mama give some advices and comments of these programmes? What are the differences between Kindergarten campus and Children's House campus?

Thanks

咪咪媽

我的孩子是從幼稚園讀到現在小學的. 我認為耀中的幼稚園還是OK的. 幾年前耀中把幼稚園年資長的大批老師解約, 因為大部份的薪金都在約二萬左右. 現在的老師都只是教育局所要求的標準薪金.而且外籍老師和本地老師待遇很不同, 也是令很多老師不滿的地方. 小學方面, 我知道有一位低年級的中文老師就是在幼稚園的編制而在教小學. 學校除了在老師薪金方面令人不滿外, 管理上也令人很氣結, 今年三年級就有二位中文老師同時辭職(三年級只有二位中文老師). 而學校找來的二位代課老師其中一位竟然是只在老人中心和新移民中文教人識字的義工教師. 經過多位家長與學校交涉, 學校把該老師更換了, 但更誇張, 這位老師只是補習社的老師! 每個月一萬多元的學費竟然是這樣! 本週是中文測驗(耀中只有測驗沒有考試), 為了是次測驗, 老師一週教三篇課文, 有一課還沒教完就測驗了. 有個小朋友病了不能參加測驗, 這位老師居然將測驗卷交給小朋友, 叫家長為這個小朋友做測驗. 我們見這位老師時, 她一直不停地強調小朋友的學習態度馬虎, 為人師表, 她郤是做得如何? 一句話講晒, 這個學校太商業化. 管理又差. 我們這些家長都覺得上了賊船.

Tasha 寫道:
教育基本上是一項人與人接觸的工作 (老師與学生,同學和學同之間).優良的師資是優質教育的先决條件. 好的老師應俱備專業學術知識,對教育有熱枕,關心学生.耀中從來都沒有公開教師的資歷,家長們每月萬多元的學費究竟請了些甚麼學歷的老師呢?無從得知!其實,如果孩子上學愉快,學業有進步,品格有良好發展,家長絕不會探究老師的paper qualifications.但當上述三 樣都發生問題時,家長不禁對師資校政產生疑問.有去過耀中中學部Parent Teacher meetings的家長都會發覺老師一般比較冷淡,欠缺熱枕,有些一句起兩句止. Meeting 大概 由四點到六點,但每每五點半未到,好多枱都己經空了 (即老師走了).小学部老師常見的caring在中學部是一種罕見的質素.老師對學生很冷漠, 許多學生亦因此對學校無歸屬感.有些老師對所教的科目的專科知識不足, 上堂很 disorganized.學校整體學術水平 每况愈下. 中學部不是沒有好老師,只是數目不太多,而且流動量很大.例如中文科有位非常好的老師 (学生及家長都公認) 但今年又另有高就了.為甚麽學校留不住好的老師呢?

之前有家長提及耀中老師薪酬超低, 我亦有聽過類似的傳言, 低到甚麽地步呢？無法得知.但如果”超低”是事實,那實在令一眾家長憤怒莫名.家長交這樣龎大的學費,而孩子的老師竟然 poorly paid,優質的老師又怎會到耀中教呢,就算去到亦很快離開.因種種原因不能離開的亦會不開心. 不開心的老師又怎会有教學的熱心,怎會関心學生呢?以前耀中學生人數少,可能沒有economy of scale, 調整薪金可能有局限,但近年不斷增加收生,double, triple都唔止,為何老師的代遇這麽差?

讓我來計計簡單的數: 保守估計現時小學有750人, 中學有600人,共1350人,小學學費每月約為 $12800, 中學約$13100. 即每月淨學費收入是 $12800 x 750 + $13100 x 600 = $17,460,000. 一千七百多萬元!!尚未括每個 term收的 miscellaneous fees (千多元), 超貴的 school lunch ($42 一餐), 校服 和滚存的利息 等等. 橫睇掂睇,都無理由underpay 老師 .現在又要收 debenture, 每個舊生十五萬, 政府不是已經資助了嗎,究竟收收埋埋的錢通通去了那裡? 家長交高昂的學費是希望孩子得到優質教育, 期望高質素的師資, 不是讓辦學机構到五湖四海開分校(分店?). Profit-making 不要緊, 但要有辦學的良心 , 孩子接受 教育不是買件衫, 買棵菜, 買錯了可以棄之再來過, 轉校不是話走就走,孩子心靈有很大震蕩.錯過了的時間就是錯過了,不能追回. 耀中許多家長都是middle-class professionals,萬多元一個月是很大的數目,一心入耀中只為優質教育,好讓孩子免受千瘡百孔的主流教育摧殘, 學校辦得不好,家長是何等的痛心失望!

Debenture 一事簡直是個鬧劇.致少五六年前開始講有新校舍, 由始致終都無提過  debenture, 只說會減學費,有優質設施,更完整地貫徹一條龍的教育理念.有位一年前入學的新生家長亦說當時學校完全沒有提及.debenture 一事.失驚無神每個學生耍交20萬,令她覺得有被欺騙的感覺,就像被人㩒住來搶. 學校寄給家長的信,更附有如何向銀行借貸和貸款優惠的傳單, 好似怕家長走數!建新校舍是龎大的工程,需要數億元,理應早早就有完善的財務安排, 為甚麽沒有預早宣報debenture,是故意隱瞞,引人”落搭”(轉校生), 還是財務安排失當,last minute 才知要用debenture來籌款?又還是要開新的分店??

讀得耀中的,家長都不會是窮人,雖然有些家長或者需要張羅一下才可以滕出20萬,但相信對很多家長來說(尤其是做生意的), 20 萬亦可能是個很小數目,如果學校辦得好,學生得益,莫說是debenture,就是donation也毫不 吝嗇.現在的風波,看似為金錢爭”咬”,其實是家長趁debenture這條導火線,爆發濾積的不滿和怨氣.就如你用很多錢去租一間豪宅,發現又漏水, 又甩皮, 電器又壞, 問題多多, 投訴了,但業主又不理, 竟然重話要加租,跟住重話唔高興可以走人.你有甚麽感覺呢??可笑的是原本20萬的debenture因為家長強烈反响,突然變了舊生15萬,新生20萬. 究竟最初20萬的原價是怎樣定出來的呢?為何竟有25%的減價空間?如果每個家長都是順民,對20萬逆來順受, 那麽”多”了錢會拿來作甚麽用途呢?15 萬之後,是否再有減價的空間呢?這些都是一般家長的疑問. Debenture的價目可以胡亂定立,隨意更改,家長們自不然對學校的財務管理能力存疑. 日後學生離校. 能否取回金額. 有問題會得到甚麽保障, 亦是家長的疑問? 海域國際都可以有8億(?) 不知所踪, Nothing is impossible.

今天到此為止, 因為越講越氣餒, 傷心又傷神!!

(待續)

KaKaYa

Tasha�咪咪媽，
完全講晒我的心裹話，心淡 已過檔別的學校；希望大家將來可以取回失去的東西，時間就沒有計了 死証
Tasha有同感當家長是陽鼓 學校愈做愈差．．．失望

foolish.mom

My son has been in YC since 2 years old.  Now he is in upper primary.  My opinion is that we need to find a school which suits our kids in most aspects like characters, learning ability, learning habits, etc..

He was in YC main stream kindergarten.  So his Chinese was fair but his English was not that good as compared with other YCIS children.  After entering primary section, he has amazing improvement in English every year, especially in comprehension ability and composition.  His Chinese standard can be maintained to be comparable to average local school children.  So, as a result-oriented parent, I think placing him at YC has achieved what I want him to be, while learning under least pressure.

YC always boosts its "individual approach to learning".  I don't know the teacher-student ratio of other IS.  But there are less than 20 students in my son's class.  For English lessons, they are divided into 3 groups according to ability.  With only 5 students in the high-achievers' group (my son said the English standard of his classmates is better than mine), they have plenty of time to interact with the native teacher, while competing with the other best students.  I admit that some students have poor ability and English, but they are given special attention.  My son said some classmates with learning problems have a native teacher giving one-on-one coaching.

Like other IS, the key is whether they are willing to spend time reading books and self-learning.  They don't have much homework, so the time saved can be used for reading piles of books which they are interested.  For children having less interest in reading books, they'd better find a local school with lots of drills.

YC has a lot of gifted students, and as I noted, the best performing ones are those joining at kindergarten or lower primary level.

YC primary is the best choice for my son, though I still have hesitation whether to stay through the secondary school.  (CIS's chinese is about 2 years behind YC's standard according to another parent.)

Naoko

foolish.mom,
Just want to know what you comments are regarding the upper primary campus.
I have been there a few times and have thought that if I were to pay $10k over per month, I would expect something a lot nicer.
There are basically nil facilities, except toilets and classrooms.  The present outdoor play area is OK for kindergarten children or lower primary children. But that is not sufficient for upper primary children.
A school comprises of hardward (school campus) and software (staff). Even with the best teachers, I think it will still be not effective if the facilities are poor.

foolish.mom

Dear Naoko,

Yes, the campus is the smallest among all IS and even local schools.  For sure there is not enough  space for them to play.  But "hardware" consists of space and equipment.  YC invests a lot on equipment.  They have enough powerful PCs for students to complete their assignments on computers at school. Many local school parents complain doing projects for their kids.  But my son can already search much information from internet at school, or even finish the whole project.  Last year, they start to purchase a lot of "smartboard" (computer-linked whiteboards) in classrooms which cost much.

What do you think?   

Naoko

foolish.mom 寫道:
Dear Naoko,

Yes, the campus is the smallest among all IS and even local schools.  For sure there is not enough  space for them to play.  But "hardware" consists of space and equipment.  YC invests a lot on equipment.  They have enough powerful PCs for students to complete their assignments on computers at school. Many local school parents complain doing projects for their kids.  But my son can already search much information from internet at school, or even finish the whole project.  Last year, they start to purchase a lot of "smartboard" (computer-linked whiteboards) in classrooms which cost much.

What do you think?   

PCs and smartboards are no big deal amongst international schools.
You are comparing to local schools???
Do you know the school fees are very different?
I am sure all schools could afford newest PCs if they all charge students $10K per month.

  

咪咪媽

你過檔到哪間學校? 我有考慮弘立, 但有朋友對我說弘立只是對外說中文課程是用北京上海重點學校的教材, 但事實上并沒有一套系統的中文教材去讓學生學習, 不過他們對教育的熱誠和投入是耀中不可比擬的. 我去參觀弘立的校舍(不是新的那個), 雖然那個校舍與耀中差不多, 但他們把全校舖上光纖, 電腦比耀中多得多, 剛才那位家長說耀中在硬件方面做得好, 真是可笑. 由於它的校舍小, 所以上體育課時到足球會去租用場地讓學生上課. 相比之下, 真是感慨. 弘立現在用的只是臨時校舍, 今年九月就會搬入新校舍, 耀中是永久校舍, 永遠都是那麼殘. 你有沒有聽到弘立的任何消息? 因為轉校是一件大事, 要很慎重.

KaKaYa 寫道:
Tasha�咪咪媽，
完全講晒我的心裹話，心淡 已過檔別的學校；希望大家將來可以取回失去的東西，時間就沒有計了 死証
Tasha有同感當家長是陽鼓 學校愈做愈差．．．失望

KaKaYa

You can try RC /ESF .It'S very Long quenes for ESF. RC is expanding the class in this year. Let start to try and Meanwhile, other IS e.g:AIS, CIS...or PLK CNY, 培橋或浸會大學附小學或ＱＢＳ（ＥＳＦ）ETC.
Good Lucky!

咪咪媽 寫道:
你過檔到哪間學校? 我有考慮弘立, 但有朋友對我說弘立只是對外說中文課程是用北京上海重點學校的教材, 但事實上并沒有一套系統的中文教材去讓學生學習, 不過他們對教育的熱誠和投入是耀中不可比擬的. 我去參觀弘立的校舍(不是新的那個), 雖然那個校舍與耀中差不多, 但他們把全校舖上光纖, 電腦比耀中多得多, 剛才那位家長說耀中在硬件方面做得好, 真是可笑. 由於它的校舍小, 所以上體育課時到足球會去租用場地讓學生上課. 相比之下, 真是感慨. 弘立現在用的只是臨時校舍, 今年九月就會搬入新校舍, 耀中是永久校舍, 永遠都是那麼殘. 你有沒有聽到弘立的任何消息? 因為轉校是一件大事, 要很慎重.






[quote]
KaKaYa 寫道:
Tasha�咪咪媽，
完全講晒我的心裹話，心淡 已過檔別的學校；希望大家將來可以取回失去的東西，時間就沒有計了 死証
Tasha有同感當家長是陽鼓 學校愈做愈差．．．失望

[/quote]

Tasha

本來已經不想再提耀中, 因為很反感, 甚致厭惡. 但見到有家長提出耀中如何如何改善小學的硬件,忍唔住又想發勞騷.

耀中小學部校舍極不理想, 不但陳舊狹窄,更零星落索分散在幾個地方.學生的活動空間非常有限, 高班和低班的同學沒有机會接觸,無法孕育出大家庭的氣氛.耀中既然得到政府批地建全新校舍,為何不趁机會把中小學融合一齊, 令小學部的學生得益,反而要勉强double中學部的學額, 弄得一塌糊塗. 其他獲政府批地的辦學機構据知都將中小學放在一起 (例如ICS, RC, ISF, 浸會).中小學在同一校舍對學生有莫大的好處,年紀小的學生以高班的大哥哥大姐姐作為學習榜樣, 學校亦可以安排中學生帶領小學生進行活动或功課輔導,作為service或者是領導能力的培訓.凝聚校內友愛互助的文化.

最近獲知新校舍原來包括社區學院 (Community College), 更覺氣憤. 為何全新的校舍不惠及小學的學生, 而是攪這個Community College? 辦Community College與辦中小學是兩回事,無論師資,課程,評核, 行政及 各方面的配套都截然不同,需要很多資源去策劃推行,既然有額外資源,為何不攪好千瘡百孔的中學部 (例如改善師資)?耀中行政混亂已是眾家長皆知的事,如今再攪甚麽 Community College, 恐怕學校的運作更亂七八糟.這正反映耀中管理的毛病 – 好大喜功,過度擴張 (香港如是,國內如是)!

如果家長有留意報章的教育版,都知道近年副學士學位過分膨脹,副學士畢業生往往找不到銜接的學位課程, 近日中大開辦的社區學院更收生不足,大大浪費了在何文田新建的校舍,中大這個名牌也面對收生困難,耀中這個社區學院新丁憑甚麽認為自己可以辦得成功呢?不要忘記,九龍塘己有浸會大學和城市大學開辦社區學院課程,耀中以一中小學的辨學機構身份,如何與這些大學競爭呢?到時 Community College 運營虧損,是不是要把財政負担轉嫁到中小學家長身上呢?另外一個相關的問題: Community College的學生既然有權享用新校舍設施,是不是也應該買 $200,000的 debenture 呢？如果他們不用買 debenture,是不是變相由中學部家長資助他們?公平嗎?

說回學校的硬件,在大部份的國際學校,室內泳池,室內運動場,Performance Theatre等已是基本設施,但這些設施在耀中一直欠奉,直致最近中學新校舍完成,中學部的学生才能享用,而小學部的學生就永遠设法享用.繼續困迫在零星落索的陝小空間.相比起家長每月支出的萬多元學費,在課室裡安裝一個甚麽Computer-linked Whiteboard 是小微小眼的東西,不是甚麽大恩惠.作為家長,我寕願課室沒有先進 whiteboard, 換取優質的師資,而不是在老人中心任教的中文老師!


[quote]
foolish.mom 寫道:
Last year, they start to purchase a lot of "smartboard" (computer-linked whiteboards) in classrooms which cost much.

KaKaYa

Tasha/?/?
這裹很多有些ＹＣ常有ＹＣ　ＳＴＡＦＦ經常代我們家長講說話的，其實大家都知道誰心中有數
有時間講多些！

Tasha

我是YC家長,不是YC staff.我只是把我所聽所聞所遇,加上自己的感受說出來.

現在多了很多新辦的學校給家長選擇,希望你們小心選取,多作比較,多打聽第一手資料,不要只相信廣告或其他表面的假象.學費多少並不一定和質素掛鈎,好的品牌若管理不善也會變成雜嘜.孩子接受教育是一件很重要的事情,萬不可掉以輕心.損失金錢事小,浪費了寶貴的光陰事大!

幸好我不是YC staff,不然知得更多,恐怕爆血管!

mattsmum

are you sure they don't group Primary with secondary into the new campus?

Tasha 寫道:
本來已經不想再提耀中, 因為很反感, 甚致厭惡. 但見到有家長提出耀中如何如何改善小學的硬件,忍唔住又想發勞騷.

耀中小學部校舍極不理想, 不但陳舊狹窄,更零星落索分散在幾個地方.學生的活動空間非常有限, 高班和低班的同學沒有机會接觸,無法孕育出大家庭的氣氛.耀中既然得到政府批地建全新校舍,為何不趁机會把中小學融合一齊, 令小學部的學生得益,反而要勉强double中學部的學額, 弄得一塌糊塗. 其他獲政府批地的辦學機構据知都將中小學放在一起 (例如ICS, RC, ISF, 浸會).中小學在同一校舍對學生有莫大的好處,年紀小的學生以高班的大哥哥大姐姐作為學習榜樣, 學校亦可以安排中學生帶領小學生進行活动或功課輔導,作為service或者是領導能力的培訓.凝聚校內友愛互助的文化.

最近獲知新校舍原來包括社區學院 (Community College), 更覺氣憤. 為何全新的校舍不惠及小學的學生, 而是攪這個Community College? 辦Community College與辦中小學是兩回事,無論師資,課程,評核, 行政及 各方面的配套都截然不同,需要很多資源去策劃推行,既然有額外資源,為何不攪好千瘡百孔的中學部 (例如改善師資)?耀中行政混亂已是眾家長皆知的事,如今再攪甚麽 Community College, 恐怕學校的運作更亂七八糟.這正反映耀中管理的毛病 – 好大喜功,過度擴張 (香港如是,國內如是)!

如果家長有留意報章的教育版,都知道近年副學士學位過分膨脹,副學士畢業生往往找不到銜接的學位課程, 近日中大開辦的社區學院更收生不足,大大浪費了在何文田新建的校舍,中大這個名牌也面對收生困難,耀中這個社區學院新丁憑甚麽認為自己可以辦得成功呢?不要忘記,九龍塘己有浸會大學和城市大學開辦社區學院課程,耀中以一中小學的辨學機構身份,如何與這些大學競爭呢?到時 Community College 運營虧損,是不是要把財政負担轉嫁到中小學家長身上呢?另外一個相關的問題: Community College的學生既然有權享用新校舍設施,是不是也應該買 $200,000的 debenture 呢？如果他們不用買 debenture,是不是變相由中學部家長資助他們?公平嗎?

說回學校的硬件,在大部份的國際學校,室內泳池,室內運動場,Performance Theatre等已是基本設施,但這些設施在耀中一直欠奉,直致最近中學新校舍完成,中學部的学生才能享用,而小學部的學生就永遠设法享用.繼續困迫在零星落索的陝小空間.相比起家長每月支出的萬多元學費,在課室裡安裝一個甚麽Computer-linked Whiteboard 是小微小眼的東西,不是甚麽大恩惠.作為家長,我寕願課室沒有先進 whiteboard, 換取優質的師資,而不是在老人中心任教的中文老師!


[quote]
foolish.mom 寫道:
Last year, they start to purchase a lot of "smartboard" (computer-linked whiteboards) in classrooms which cost much.