不公平遊戲

navigator

Y2Kchild, TWMa & Judy,

我這段意見是寫給一位CatholicSchoolTeacher. 在內容中，我並沒有說過那位家長的做法是對的，因為不管『欺騙』是大還是小；是多還是少，總之有欺騙就是不對的。這點很明確。然而該位家長的做法也確實是很『有腦的』，我們又怎可成說他是笨蛋呢？！當然做這種有『欺騙』成份的行為，怎麼樣也說不過去，我相信也不會有家長喜歡把『欺騙』的功夫傳授給他們的小朋友。在香港，一說到教育問題，有很多人都很喜歡把所有的責任推給教統局... 但其實也有很多問題是出自於學校的管理不善。我認為，我們看一個問題應該從多個角度，實事求是，分得清清楚楚，切忌把題外不恰當的人生攻擊混入一談作為支持己方的論據。最後一提的是：在此平台發表文章，主要是要表達一番，並不需要文筆流暢，大家明白其意思就行了，何必要像老師改卷那麼認真呢？！遇到了別字、筆誤、錯漏、不通順的情況，希望大家能夠按着李天命教授的指引：用『同情的理解』來看此文章吧。

Regards,
navigator

B媽

1. 如果因為這些不當行為既家長去取消崇教分,是否連正當返教會,熱心奉獻教會既家長都一同受罸?點解唔寫信問下個d接受外國洗禮紙既學校,點解佢地唔阻止?

2. 我讀既小學一早就拆左,世襲分對我是否公平? 對新移民是否公平?  細個可以讀名校既人, 點解佢地d仔女都無條件可以加分?  我無讀名校就要注定我既子女唔可以讀名校? 只可以怪自己唔好命?!

3.  我無錢買名校網既樓, 名校網就只係為有錢人服務?

制度有問題點只係崇教分?! 人訂既制度必有問題,亦顯現人性真面目!我相信神自有安排!

010

yes, that the point, one of my uncle send there kids to YT, and now their boy (over 19) become a loyal Catholics too.

CDMa 寫道:
I agreed with this. I know a parent who got the religion for purpose of primary school admission but they kept the promise and learned and now is a very loyal Catholics. Though the procedure of becoming catholic was not in order, the same destination!

Besides, those who will get a place from lucky draw may not be catholics as well. but they can be taught to be Catholics.



[quote]
010 寫道:
don't worry, god has his own plan

[/quote]

010

agree with "制度有問題點只係崇教分?! "
but we believe our god too!

B媽 寫道:
1. 如果因為這些不當行為既家長去取消崇教分,是否連正當返教會,熱心奉獻教會既家長都一同受罸?點解唔寫信問下個d接受外國洗禮紙既學校,點解佢地唔阻止?

2. 我讀既小學一早就拆左,世襲分對我是否公平? 對新移民是否公平?  細個可以讀名校既人, 點解佢地d仔女都無條件可以加分?  我無讀名校就要注定我既子女唔可以讀名校? 只可以怪自己唔好命?!

3.  我無錢買名校網既樓, 名校網就只係為有錢人服務?

制度有問題點只係崇教分?! 人訂既制度必有問題,亦顯現人性真面目!我相信神自有安排!

B媽

I agree too!!  

010 寫道:
yes, that the point, one of my uncle send there kids to YT, and now their boy (over 19) become a loyal Catholics too.

[quote]
CDMa 寫道:
I agreed with this. I know a parent who got the religion for purpose of primary school admission but they kept the promise and learned and now is a very loyal Catholics. Though the procedure of becoming catholic was not in order, the same destination!

Besides, those who will get a place from lucky draw may not be catholics as well. but they can be taught to be Catholics.



[quote]
010 寫道:
don't worry, god has his own plan

[/quote][/quote]

youma

1.        簡單來說, 不是人人有平等機會便是[不公平], 所以世襲分, 辦學/宗教分, 長子分, 分區, 姊弟等等優惠都是不公平制度.

2.        對有些家長企圖以有一部份人因身份得益而去把[不公平]說成[沒有不公平], 我感到十分遺憾!

3.        這個不公平的升小制度其實是當年那些辦學/宗教團體要求設立的, 以保障其屬下小學收到一定數目的[理想]學生, 教統局則讓步好讓制度獲得普遍接納. 難得教統多年來明知不公平也什麼都不做! :-|

4. Anyway, I really appreciate pswci for what he/she does.

pswci 寫道:
...可憐我只有15分，被拒於門外，因我沒有同流合污。我沒有不開心，我深信小學只是人生一個階段，我的小朋友一定會堂堂正正，出人頭地。我給與他絕對的宗教自由，希望他能獨立思考，為自己人生作出決定。為了讀書而強迫信教，不是我所為。

010

很高興你沒有同流合污，但有一點要提一提，若想小朋友接觸耶穌基督，教導他們博愛，仁愛等理念，造福社會，不一定要入指定”教會學校”，有很多教會學校也可以！或者帶小朋友返教會也可以．

想一想，究竟我地想要咩先！
願主給你的小朋友預備最好的安排！
引文:
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pswci 寫道:
各位家長，唔知去平等機會委員會投訴，有冇用呢。我覺得以基督博愛精神，應該給與非教徒加分。等非教徒小朋友有機會進入教會學校，接觸耶穌基督，教導他們博愛，仁愛等理念，造福社會。我身邊有朋友為了入小學，舉家飛往菲國受洗，今天成功進入油天，晚上還舉行慶功。可憐我只有15分，被拒於門外，因我沒有同流合污。我沒有不開心，我深信小學只是人生一個階段，我的小朋友一定會堂堂正正，出人頭地。我給與他絕對的宗教自由，希望他能獨立思考，為自己人生作出決定。為了讀書而強迫信教，不是我所為。
---------------------------------------------------------

youma

正當返教會,熱心奉獻教會既家長就可以得到入學優惠?
這是什麼道理?

B媽 寫道:
1. 如果因為這些不當行為既家長去取消崇教分,是否連正當返教會,熱心奉獻教會既家長都一同受罸?點解唔寫信問下個d接受外國洗禮紙既學校,點解佢地唔阻止?

2. 我讀既小學一早就拆左,世襲分對我是否公平? 對新移民是否公平?  細個可以讀名校既人, 點解佢地d仔女都無條件可以加分?  我無讀名校就要注定我既子女唔可以讀名校? 只可以怪自己唔好命?!

3.  我無錢買名校網既樓, 名校網就只係為有錢人服務?

制度有問題點只係崇教分?! 人訂既制度必有問題,亦顯現人性真面目!我相信神自有安排!

pwkw

CatholicSchoolTeacher 寫道:
有家長利用錢到東南亞國家三日便取得領洗紙並成功進入本校，我將如何面對這些{小教友}。

點解呢位老師會肯定個d家長唔係真心信奉上帝呢?
好多死刑犯到臨死先信主,就可得到永生/寬恕(反而一生行善如果唔信主就要go to hell{just kidding}. )
有可能呢d家長去東南亞旅行,特然大澈悟信奉上主 :  :
如果因此歧視小教友,就真係My God la..

pswci

Thanks Youma:
原來信耶穌不只是得永生，還得學位！我朋友的case是根本他們兩夫妻並不是教徒，只是為了學位的5分而帶女兒受洗。我不想評論對錯，每人也有自己的生活的方式，但我不會仿效。我想帶出的是，我覺得父母應該絕對給與孩子宗教自由，為了學位而強迫小朋友信教，是否對呢？我真的不明白，教會經常提倡公平、公正、公義、爭取民主普選，為甚麼在教學、辦學上不能廣開門路，讓更多非教徒的小朋友有機會入讀教會學校呢？可能有些教徒家長會不同意，但我對現時的派位宗教加分制度，十分厭惡和無奈。希望教育界的高官能夠明白家長的心情。

SandyKL

Fatherofdaughter 寫道:

Is the system really fair?
每一個制度就算係點完美，都實有人話唔公平架，因為要搵到一個制度去迎合到每一個家長都幾難。「小一入學基制」係2000年改革之後推出，針對小朋友被「揠苗助長」，羅太致力去消除名校校應，於是取消校長酌情10分，仍有人話唔公平。好勒，果d自覺自己小朋友叻人一等，又覺得「統一分配學位」唔公平，完全靠運氣，剥奪左佢地既叻仔、叻女入到心儀津貼或官校既機會，何謂公平?總之制度既野，又係果句，既得利益者咪覺得公平囉，得唔到利益者咪話唔公平囉。

If according to what you said, then those who did not get the religion mark is "not smart" enough then. They should go to 菲律賓 for a holiday and 5 mark. Of course need some money. May be I should say K1, K2 students parent, remember to do your job in proper time no matter you believe the reglion or not.

你認為我意思係冇宗教分果d就唔醒?傻啦，我又點會咁諗自己喎。

家長都應該去菲律賓一轉拎果5分?雖然我都希望自己有果5分宗教分，但我孤寒呀，唔想用5、6仟銀去菲律賓動亂國家，寧可用果d錢俾小朋友學下野裝備自己。我係絕對唔會妒忌人地有錢、有假期既。

而且果個家長唔需要理會人地點睇

Love_U_Suddenly

pswci 寫道:
Thanks Youma:
原來信耶穌不只是得永生，還得學位！我朋友的case是根本他們兩夫妻並不是教徒，只是為了學位的5分而帶女兒受洗。我不想評論對錯，每人也有自己的生活的方式，但我不會仿效。我想帶出的是，我覺得父母應該絕對給與孩子宗教自由，為了學位而強迫小朋友信教，是否對呢？我真的不明白，教會經常提倡公平、公正、公義、爭取民主普選，為甚麼在教學、辦學上不能廣開門路，讓更多非教徒的小朋友有機會入讀教會學校呢？可能有些教徒家長會不同意，但我對現時的派位宗教加分制度，十分厭惡和無奈。希望教育界的高官能夠明白家長的心情。

這樣就係教會有問題啦, 父和母都唔係, 無啦啦帶個女返教會話要領洗, 而間教會就比佢個女領洗, 兒唔兒戲 D 呀 ?? 領洗前要上的慕道班唔同工聯會果 D 業餘興趣班架, 夠出席率就可以拎 "証書" 架拿 ???? ~! 荒謬     

總之, 我覺得呢 D 出賣良心既父母好無恥啦, 一句講晒    

B媽

我無話正當返教會,熱心奉獻教會既家長就可以得到入學優惠,只係認為應多方面睇!有一部份人做法不當,但亦要護及真正教徒家長!如果認為崇教不公平,要取消,亦請大家想想世襲,地區等等有何分別,點解矛頭只向崇教分?!要取消,就全部都應取消!

youma 寫道:
正當返教會,熱心奉獻教會既家長就可以得到入學優惠?
這是什麼道理?


[quote]
B媽 寫道:
1. 如果因為這些不當行為既家長去取消崇教分,是否連正當返教會,熱心奉獻教會既家長都一同受罸?點解唔寫信問下個d接受外國洗禮紙既學校,點解佢地唔阻止?

2. 我讀既小學一早就拆左,世襲分對我是否公平? 對新移民是否公平?  細個可以讀名校既人, 點解佢地d仔女都無條件可以加分?  我無讀名校就要注定我既子女唔可以讀名校? 只可以怪自己唔好命?!

3.  我無錢買名校網既樓, 名校網就只係為有錢人服務?

制度有問題點只係崇教分?! 人訂既制度必有問題,亦顯現人性真面目!我相信神自有安排!

[/quote]

youma

SandyKL 寫道:
Fatherofdaughter 寫道:

Is the system really fair?
每一個制度就算係點完美，都實有人話唔公平架，因為要搵到一個制度去迎合到每一個家長都幾難。「小一入學基制」係2000年改革之後推出，針對小朋友被「揠苗助長」，羅太致力去消除名校校應，於是取消校長酌情10分，仍有人話唔公平。好勒，果d自覺自己小朋友叻人一等，又覺得「統一分配學位」唔公平，完全靠運氣，剥奪左佢地既叻仔、叻女入到心儀津貼或官校既機會，何謂公平?總之制度既野，又係果句，既得利益者咪覺得公平囉，得唔到利益者咪話唔公平囉。
...
唔係，你錯勒，我既邏輯係如果你想得到「牛奶」(學位)，你咪先去慕道，再而覺得適合既，咪洗禮入教囉，又想得到牛奶(學位)，又唔去番教會，淨係匿埋係屋企上bk，天主都幫唔到你喎，老友!!

係，係，係人都想俾最好教育自己既小朋友，但入到你所講既學校就一定係最好?小朋友前途一定一片光明?咁肯定?

SandyKL,

I feel regret to your logic too.

1. A fair system is not aimed to satisfy all people, but to avoid depriving of anyone's equal interest.
2. Whatever people say, it cannot be denied that the existing primary entrance system is favurable to some people and against some people - it is apparently unfair and should be corrected.
3. Yes, some people say for own interest and are not easy to be satisfied. But should we therefore allow the unfairness to persist? Come on.
4. I can disclose to that some parents (including me)will have religious marks but hate this privilege.
5. In my opinion, a pure lucky draw with no marks & no district seems to be a fair system. Anyone has a better idea?

...
唔係，你錯勒，我既邏輯係如果你想得到「牛奶」(學位)，你咪先去慕道，再而覺得適合既，咪洗禮入教囉，又想得到牛奶(學位)，又唔去番教會，淨係匿埋係屋企上bk，天主都幫唔到你喎，老友!!

6. You seems encouraging others to 慕道 with a motive of getting a 學位. I hope my interpretation is wrong, otherwise I am really regretful to your moral standard.

youma

B媽 :
I agree with you too - 全部不公平計分都應取消!

Y2KChild:
I concur with your suggestion but unforntunately nowadays most of the parents (not kids) are reluntant to prepare entrance exams. EMB dislikes it too.

I think EMB should not resist some of schools to offer fair entrance exams. Parents have the option to take the exam or not.

Y2KChild 寫道:
Totally agreed!

I myself prefer to cancel all these marking systems and return back to the very old system when I was a kid. At that time, we all had to attend a public exam at P6 and then we can select the school we like based on our exam results but not any other factors, e.g. locations, religions, relationship, wealth ... etc.

Why EMB do not believe parents' own judgement on selecting schools? We can decide by ourselves whether the location of the school is too far that affect our kids, whether the religion background in-line with our own believe, whether we prefer to have both kids studying at the same school,.... etc. We are adults and can make the best decision for our kids. There are no need to set so much unnecessary and unfair constraints. EMB should only require to ensure that the exam is fair and no student will not be unable to afford the school fee if he/she is selected by a particular school because of his/her good performance, just like the financial subsidise system for university students.

[quote]
B媽 寫道:
我無話正當返教會,熱心奉獻教會既家長就可以得到入學優惠,只係認為應多方面睇!有一部份人做法不當,但亦要護及真正教徒家長!如果認為崇教不公平,要取消,亦請大家想想世襲,地區等等有何分別,點解矛頭只向崇教分?!要取消,就全部都應取消!