1.05 億比學校買平板電腦 - 是多?是少?

shadeslayer

囝囝爸 發表於 14-3-11 11:00
回覆 bookreader 的帖子

我常見家長給幼兒平板。我想，他們以為已進行電子教學。
囝囝爸，孩子在家把玩 iPad ，下載甚麼「教育程式」無所謂，但用公帑把 iPad 正式引入課堂，你以為下載幾個 app 就是電子教學？把書本 scan 入 iPad 就係電子教學？我希望教育界多點新概念，不然iPad 只是昂貴玩具。

既然想不到課堂用 iPad 的明顯好處，也代表孩子（尤其年紀小的）不用也沒甚麼麼損失。

其實小學課堂着重孩子間的互動，孩子和老師的互動，加入 iPad 變成 iPad 和孩子的互動，未見其利，先見其害。

囝囝爸

回覆 StJohnOB 的帖子

//哈哈我只係話我博學，冇話過係乜博士物博士𡃓！以你嘅學識見識，好多嘢都唔識都一啲唔出奇，所以我先至多口提提你，唔識嘅嘢最好就唔好講咁多啦，講多錯多嘛！//

Hei Hei，唔緊要啦！ 你咁高我咁低，再笠頂帽比你，遮住對眼，更加飄飄然，可隨意自揚，先至唔覺醜！ 我錯咗講咗超過十年，你唔怕多口，因為機會唔多，或者博士都有詞窮才缺的一日。


//冇用ipad一啲都冇乜損失。電子教學係好侷限，好多地方都唔可以或唔合適取代書本教學（平板電腦係唔適合用來取代教科書），即使部分教學適合電子化，只需係學校有多幾部電腦供學生使用便足夠，根本無需用功能少得多的平板電腦。上堂時學生更加無必要電腦要如平板電腦般的流動性。//

簡單講句，電子比得上紙本單向禁局限？  電子書發展已超越紙本，當然書局仍會存在，讀電子本都會讀紙本，唔洗硬繃繃丶死估估！ 適唔適合唔係博士你決定，係由用家或發展的國家和機構去決定，數量和選擇亦然。 流動性止於課堂？ 你洗唔洗揹重重的書包上學？ 資訊都唔需要流動性，我提議你唔好用智能手機和平板，等番到屋企才慢慢查，不過記得裝定手寫版(可能博士你唔需要)。


//幼童使用電腦（無論在家或學校）係在乎學習上的需要性，而唔係驚有近視，而事實上，愈年幼，需要性就愈低，例如對幼稚園或初少，純粹是appreciation 電腦的用處，每日也不用多於十零分鐘，對身心健康沒有影響的。高少可能需要用多一點點，例如上網搜集資料，做報告，做presentation等（不是玩遊戲），只要控制上網內容及時間，也無損身心健康嘅。//

很多家長擔心壞眼，近視是其中一種。 其他的，博士你慢慢去研究分析講比環境不同的家長聽，睇佢地做唔做或控制得到？ 不過我同意你的講法。

himching

自家經驗, 真正喜歡睇書的小朋友, 係不會喜歡用電子產品嚟睇書.

囝囝爸

我唔會 define，是我多年體驗。 我絕對相信是發展趨勢，不過時間會比預想的漫長，效果將來會有印證。 不少國家已到韓國取經，包括我們的吳局長。 以下可作參考，我只看過部分，70頁是有關學校和電子教本。

http://iite.unesco.org/pics/publications/en/files/3214677.pdf

20120808

傳授及接受知識所用工具上的發展，是否可以同時被視為教育路上的新發展方向？

ANChan59

原帖由 20120808 於 14-03-11 發表
傳授及接受知識所用工具上的發展，是否可以同時被視為教育路上的新發展方向？
  ...

我認為是發展方向。

20120808

ANChan59：
電子科技及應用，如水銀瀉地，一發不可收拾，且莫論好不好，也抛下價值判斷，當普遍人都生活於電子科技應用之中時，同時它的發展亦一曰千里，真不知當在那一個位置來取得平衡；感覺是有點兒像因為有了新的科技，也就應該把這科技也放進教育中，否則便是落後了，便是追不上教育的潮流了。這些是我個人離開價值判斷的少許感慨.

Obiepapa

原帖由 himching 於 14-03-11 發表
自家經驗, 真正喜歡睇書的小朋友, 係不會喜歡用電子產品嚟睇書.

幾有道理

Artie

原帖由 himching 於 14-03-11 發表
自家經驗, 真正喜歡睇書的小朋友, 係不會喜歡用電子產品嚟睇書.

我見的，也一樣。就算用電子書，大都是用 kindle

ANChan59

20120808 發表於 14-3-12 00:00
ANChan59：
電子科技及應用，如水銀瀉地，一發不可收拾，且莫論好不好，也抛下價值判斷，當普遍人都生活於 ...

我同意是發展方向，是回應你的問題。你又轉價值判斷，唔知點答你！

我看到方向避不了，快慢及如何應用，反而有不少討論空間！

ANChan59

Artie 發表於 14-3-12 00:38
我見的，也一樣。就算用電子書，大都是用 kindle

你估kindle 幾時被淘汰！

20120808

AnChan59:
多謝你的大型道德帽子，我不知在這議題上發了什麽言論，使你誤會我的任何發言與道德扯上任何關係，敬請閣下指出；是你用道德角度去量度我的言論，還是我用道德角度去量度科技，難道抒發己意及擺出客觀事實就等如是道德批判嗎？閣下有否對道德過敏了一點？我有那段言論使閣下不安，煩請指出，我定當為閣下而除掉。

囝囝爸

回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

Shadeslayer:

相關新聞資訊不少，多參考自然會更理解。

//囝囝爸，孩子在家把玩 iPad ，下載甚麼「教育程式」無所謂，但用公帑把 iPad 正式引入課堂，你以為下載幾個 app 就是電子教學？把書本 scan 入 iPad 就係電子教學？我希望教育界多點新概念，不然iPad 只是昂貴玩具。//

IPad 成年人應用絕對比孩子把玩多，海量的教育程式下載只代表可作學習的現實，長幼皆能，唔係我以為，係現實！ 把書本文件電子化十多年前你在網上中外大學圖書網站丶閱讀和電子書網站都不難找到，數量不少，當時冇 iPad 都可用到。 幫助到學習的電子書本文獻，都可叫電子學習。 作為學校教學而言，當然是要有適合的流動輕巧功能勝任工具，就是現今才有的電子平板。  iPad 只是電子教學其一較佳選擇，有自家電子技術的國家如韓台日都唔會用佢。 韓國電子學習概念源於上世紀末，如果你認為電子教學只局限於 iPad 等平板工具，忽略眾多關聯週邊支援技術及設置，以強化教育為目的，你想法是本末倒置。


//既然想不到課堂用 iPad 的明顯好處，也代表孩子（尤其年紀小的）不用也沒甚麼麼損失。//

不是用 iPad 的明顯好處，是作為工具去發揮電子教學的明顯好處。 能互動解寫讀自學是否好處？ 教育是整體，不是只以年紀小孩子而設，是培養他們長大後的競爭力，引而影響國家的競爭力。 年長年幼用多用少不可以調整控制？ 中學本書幾厚，小一本書幾薄？ 韓國和各國多年投入的時間，金錢為乜？ 你真信不用都冇損失或只是追潮流咁簡單？

//其實小學課堂着重孩子間的互動，孩子和老師的互動，加入 iPad 變成 iPad 和孩子的互動，未見其利，先見其害。//

你不要事事想到極端丶針對 iPad，電子教本有咁大魔力，把孩子目光吸住唔放，每課文有幾多，唔望老師，唔望同學，全神貫注？ 咁你就發達囉！


//點評：未想清楚便說一定要。但問為什麼要，如何改革教學，又無人知，是本末倒置。 //

請參考下貼報章報道。  你唔知唔代表冇人知！ 下學年都推出首批電子教本，幾年內有四十套，是為發展電子教本做配套。 有學校肯試你都要有責任扶助推動，174間都係幫得一百間，重點只得廿間。 推動改革才可知道效果好壞，好嘅自然會有學校追隨，到時唔洗講家長都會爭住自費買平板響應。  唔好咪當洗錢買個經驗！

囝囝爸

(星島日報報道 2014.1.6)

程尚達 (教育點評)

首批「電子教科書市場開拓計畫」下的電子教科書，將於新學年推出市場，首份電子適用書目表亦蓄勢待發。聯同剛批出申請的第二期計畫，未來數年將有四十套電子教科書面世，涵蓋中文、英文及數學科，以及地理、體育及歷史科等其他科目，雖然非牟利機構獲「打本」開發電子教科書，但市場能否長遠健康地發展，學界又是否願意踏出第一步，選用計畫開發的電子教科書，值得探討。

　　傳大型書商或加入

　　教育局兩年前向立法會申請撥款五千萬元，推行「電子教科書市場開拓計畫」，即將編製完成的首批二十套電子教科書將於今年九月供學校使用。利用餘款推行的第二期計畫則剛批出二十份申請，當中一半來自非牟利機構，最快一五學年推出。由於當局最多資助非牟利機構四百萬元，相信餘款很大機會用畢，惟當局會否再申請撥款推行第三期計畫，仍是未知之數。

　　為配合即將出爐的電子教科書，當局亦將推出電子書適用書目表，供學校選書。雖然當局曾指計畫開發的電子教科書可優先加入書目表，但程尚達聽聞，當局近日與大型書商「密密斟」，了解對方會否將開發多時的電子教科書一併送審，提高書目表的可選性；加上當局擬申請撥款，率先資助一百所學校的無綫上網服務費及購置流動電腦裝置，長遠發展電子教科書市場的心志可謂昭然若揭。

　　用家取態影響發展

　　程尚達問過電子學習聯盟主席黃岳永，他坦言若書目表有大型書商的電子教科書加入，即使開拓計畫的合約完畢，亦不擔心市場因而萎縮，但他坦言小型開發商難以在中英數等主科上，與大型書商競爭，「只有開發冷門科目，或藝術等專業類別，小型開發商才有望突圍。」

　　不過若要市場健康發展，關鍵在於用家會否積極參與，位於深水埗區的廠商會中學有不少基層學生，校長麥耀光坦言對使用電子教科書持觀望態度，笑言冒險精神不高，「電子書能否有效幫助學生？購置平板電腦的成本對學生負擔有多重？現時每年書價二、三千元，家長已叫苦連天。」麥耀光又指，平板電腦誘惑很大，學校難以監察學生如何使用，「上一代學生會用計算機玩數字遊戲，這一代學生亦會用平板電腦打機，而非讀書。」

　　開拓電子教科書市場是大勢所趨，但程尚達認為，部分學校仍對使用電子教科書信心不大，在首批電子教科書面世前，如何加強學界信心，值得當局考量。
　　

20120808

Anchan59:
我只懂抒發己見，討論的每個發表是否合乎討論效益，是相對性的價值觀，我從末敢說任何人之發表不具任何價值，我認為香港最可貴之處是言論自由，閣下說我的言論不合乎閣下標準之討論價值，煩請閣下又指出，可讓我跟隨閣下的單一價值觀好嗎?

謝謝。。。。。。

囝囝爸

ANChan59 發表於 14-3-12 11:22
你估kindle 幾時被淘汰！

Kindle 等的 e-Readers 在 2011 年銷量為高峰，近二千萬部，近年銷量趨跌，有預測將來每年幾百萬部，可能營利虧損。Kindle 還好，有寵大電子書出售支援，溢利補貼。 e-Readers 更新少，舊款都可用上多年。 各國大廠又加入平板市場，功能上升，售價下降，國內雜嘜幾百都有交易，平板佔據市場，淨以作閱讀電子書而言，平板近年已超越 e-Readers。

ANChan59

藍鳥大俠，我用錯字，我是回應價值判斷而非道德判斷。

Sorry, 我會更改以上評論中的用字！

我只是回應你的回題，但看落去，見你質疑我的看法，又價值判斷,,,,,,,,

下次都是不回你的問題安全d！

囝囝爸

These 12 questions will help you choose between tablet and e-reader

PIOTR KOWALCZYKPUBLISHED ON APR 8, 2013
Which device is better suited to read ebooks? Don’t listen to tablet or e-reader reviewers. A first person to ask is you. Answer these 12 simple questions below, and you’ll better know your e-reading preferences.

The prices of e-readers are constantly going down. Most popular ones, Kindle from Amazon and Nook from Barnes& Noble, cost below $80, and many users feel that this is a fair price for a device that lets read and manage electronic books.

On the other side, e-readers are single-purpose devices. Although some of them offer extra features like web browsing, you should be really careful about it, as e-readers have technical limitations (like e-paper screen), and they are not meant to give anything more than sheer pleasure of reading.

Tablets are much more expensive than e-readers, but they are also more versatile. You can use them for other purposes, like emails, social media, web browsing, video, games. They will also let you read ebooks that are enhanced with images, videos or interactive elements.

Again, don’t rely on tech review experts. They will only tell you whether the new generation Kobo is a 3 or 5-star e-reader, but they won’t help you recognise your very own preferences.

Answer the questions below, and you may realize that the decision on what is better, tablet or e-reader, came easier than you’d thought.

Reading ebooks – tablet or e-reader?

1. How often do I read books?

A. Regularly
B. Occasionally

2. Is reading in color important for me?

A. No
B. Yes

3. What kind of books do I mostly read?

A. Text-only (fiction)
B. Text with pictures and/or graphics (guides, cookbooks, textbooks)

4. Do I want to read enhanced ebooks?

A. No
B. Yes

5. How long am I reading a book non-stop?

A. More than an hour
B. Less than an hour

6. Am I concerned about eye strain LCD screens cause?

A. Yes
B. No

7. Will the device be used by other members of my family?

A. No
B. Yes

8. Will I use this device to read books to my children?

A. No
B. Yes

9. Do I want to have constant access to the web?

A. No
B. Yes

10. Do I expect the device to help me focus on reading?

A. Yes
B. No

11. What other functions do I want to have?

A. Music, text-to-speech
B. Music, text-to-speech, videos, games, internet, mail

12. Do I want to have easy access to different ebookstores?

A. No, one ebookstore is enough
B. Yes, I want to download/buy ebooks from different sources

• • •

If you’ve chosen answer “A” more than 6 times, you’ll feel better with an e-reader. It’s a great device to help you focus on reading for long hours.

More than 6 picks for “B” means, that you will prefer a tablet. It’s a versatile device with a full multimedia support, which can be used by all members of your family for different purposes.

Question 1

If you choose answer “A”, that means buying an e-reader is a fully justified decision.

The most popular rationale for buying a dedicated e-reading device is trying to calculate how many books one reads per year and how much can be saved by buying an ebook version instead of print.

I think that you don’t really have to cross the line, let’s say to save $80 on ebooks, to compensate the cost of e-reader. What is really important is that the device will be used heavily.

Question 2

A most common differentiation between e-readers and tablets is the display they have. E-readers have e-paper screen that doesn’t need a back light to produce a visible image. Black-and-white is the standard for e-paper.

There are already color e-readers on the market, but they will never be as good as tablets with LCD screens. Color is a part of another world, where action rules. E-paper screens are not meant for active usage – their refresh rate is too low.

Question 3

Because of a fact that e-paper is black-and-white, and playing interactive elements is impossible, e-readers are ideal for one kind of books: fiction.

Non-fiction titles, cookbooks, travel books, or textbooks, where you will most probably work with text (note-taking, bookmarks, highlights) are much better suited for tablets.

Question 4

For me, a better distinction between an e-reader and tablet is a support of enhanced ebooks.

In enhanced ebooks you can find audio and video files embedded. You can play animations, or use, sometimes very advanced, interactive elements, like maps or charts. E-readers don’t support enhanced ebooks, tablets do.

What’s more important, with tablets you can access many ebooks that are sold as separate book applications, naming only a wonderful Alice for the iPad.

Question 5

This question may look irrelevant, but in times of the web and social media, the point is to define how distracted you are and how much focused you want to be.

If you read for long hours, and if you want to totally forget about the outside world, choose an e-reader. This comes very closely with a next question.

Question 6

Eye strain is a serious problem. Many people’s job is about using computers. Staring for 8 hours a day at an LCD screen is not good for the eyes and may cause eye strain. It’s because LCD screens produce the image by using a light source placed behind. In other words, you are looking into the source of light.

If it doesn’t bother you to use the same kind of screen in a device that is mostly devoted to reading, you can choose a tablet. Now, go back to question 5 for a moment: if you want to read for long hours, being not exposed to back light is a better idea. Choose an e-reader, instead.

Question 7

This is a very important question. Mobile devices are a family decision, not personal one any more. Family members, even if they all want a device to read, may want to consume ebooks in different forms.

Tablets are better suited to serve different needs. You can download to them several e-reading applications. This might be a way to separate personal ebook libraries. An e-reader, however, is usually connected with a single account from an associated ebookstore. That means all family members would have access to the same library.

Question 8

A tablet is the only choice, if you want to read ebooks to your kids. It doesn’t only let enjoy full-color books, but opens a whole new world of interactive children’s books.

Question 9

Some people want to escape with a book. Other people simply can’t afford it.

If you need to have a constant access to social media, or if you are reading a non-fiction book and want to have a deeper reference from the web, or if you simply write down notes at the time of reading, you should go for a tablet.

Obviously, at a basic level, it’s a question of how a device connects to the web. The standard is a WiFi, for both tablets and e-readers. But equally important is how easy it is to use the web. It’s not easy on an e-reader.

Question 10

This is related to question 5. You need to focus, if you want to read for long hours. Tablets offer a lot of features, sometimes way too many. For a book lover this may create too many distractions. Push notifications coming all the time when what you most want is to fully escape with a book. In fact, with tablets there is no real chance to get offline and focus on reading.

Question 11

You can start reading your own preferences from a basic need: I want to a device to read. Now, start from that point and try to think what other features you’d like to have in a device. You’ll realize at some point that an e-reader is not enough.

Question 12

As I already wrote for question 7, family members would want to have access to different sources of ebooks. But you’d also personally want to buy a book in Kindle Store, but also a new book app in the Apple’s iTunes Store.

When you choose a tablet, you will be able to install e-reading applications from competing ebookstores: Kindle, Nook, Kobo. It’s also possible on an e-reader, but it needs an extra effort in bringing all ebooks found on the web to the DRM-free file that is supported by your e-reader.

• • •

I hope the questionnaire helped you get closer to a final decision on which device will fit your needs better. Please let me know what do you think about the questionnaire and how could we improve it.