10貴族私小增學費

HKTHK

回復 annie40 的帖子

annie, I think the real issue is how to achieve equality.  I think we all realize that absolute equality cannot be achieved.  So to achieve better equality, do we improve the opportunities at the lower end or do we take away opportunity at the high end?  Or a bit of both?  In an abstract sense, there are only really a few options to bring about better equality.  

囝囝爸

回復 shadeslayer 的帖子

續昨。。

//Don't you realize the only way to create equality is to remove all private and DSS schools, leaving only state run schools. Even then who is to ensure the admission policy of state run schools will be fair. Is the current admission policy of state run schools fair?//

剩番官辦才公平，不存在怎討論呢？ 以為唯一的共產國北韓會係咁（資本共產中國唔計），點知兩年前都有外國人入內辦私立大學。你這個極端比喻，和公平入學，遲啲有心情才答你。


//點評 shadeslayer  Not interested.  發表於 昨天 21:46//

我討論未必為興趣，只想表達意見。 也不是為對方興趣，你問一我唔會零答（唔係簡單數學題，係簡單意向比喻，與討論內容無關）。

公營學校，公平入學，公平選則？ 人與人、國與國，邊有準則，有的也非完善！ 不過大致相近可參考不少。 我舉過學卷扶貧；Charter Schools 理念；韓國、芬蘭、比利時等國入學標準，可參考的應還有更多。 各國主流做法是盡量減少競爭和條件篩選，免引起學前準備虛耗；平衡社會佔大部分，缺乏競爭文化資本(如學習條件)和社會資本(如家長支援)的弱勢入學平等機會。

shadeslayer

原帖由 HKTHK 於 13-06-14 發表
回復 annie40 的帖子

annie, I think the real issue is how to achieve equality.  I think we all reali ...

HKTHK

They are saying don't take away opportunities the underprivileged has had, ie famous schools places by turning them into DSS.  That actually I agree.  What i am saying is, it is up to the school management and the parents to define the schools' future, not somebody else on the grounds of morality, social responsibility, etc. Who are we to pass judgment on what the schools want to become.

It pains me to see some people started to argue about private schools being too expensive. That is a whole new battle and a ridiculous one I would say.

annie40

回復 HKTHK 的帖子

annie, I think the real issue is how to achieve equality.  I think we all realize that absolute equality cannot be achieved.  So to achieve better equality, do we improve the opportunities at the lower end or do we take away opportunity at the high end?  Or a bit of both?  In an abstract sense, there are only really a few options to bring about better equality.  
******       *******      ******    *****
子曰：‘三人行，必有我师焉，择其善者而从之，其不善者而改之。

不知从何时开始, 我们把'最好的'教育, 看待成没得選择的唯独選择, 好的要'更好', 不好的只会走向更坏,惶恐终日.  或许就是这种心理下, 让教育家急切希望避开教育部门的制约, 重要是挑選人才学生, 说穿了是用最直接最有效的努力在提高学业成绩的高增值. 而对家长而言, '提高学业成绩'是个胡箩泊吧!  十分诱惑的.

有人说: 既然资源是有限, 有能者居之, 是万不得已的取舍呢, 可不可以放下道德包袱? 做实事,干正事, 优而取之是正路啊!

有人说: 收费学校, 免费学校, 古已有之. 何苦今天穷大户要眼红富户中产, 要强, 要投诉, 凡事想同人家看整,此乃邪风不可长!  

真实情况是原来免费的学校,今天变成要收费, 变成一部份孩子被拒之门外, 资源被略取了. 他们是有权争取原来应得的权利. 就是因为他们是弱勢人士, 被人卖豬仔都没能力反抗. 大家就当他们不存在, 仲大声话叫他们排过另一条队, 唔好多事干.

有人话: 名校为了生存, 转直资是万般无奈. 哎! 点解让我想起几位'小三' 朋友的话, 何其相似, 只想生活富贵, 又无害人, 得闲做多些善事, 积福积德,  听落都无错播!

写了很多, 发觉大家还是停留在'absolute equality', resources distribution fairly 的话题上, 两者均是数学题, 分明是玩我, 我是想都未想过如此深奥的.好难回应呢.

我是个简单的人, 支节的事少理, 相比之下支节多的人好处是细心,进取又稳健, 唔好处是生命中有不少distraction, distractions 内往往又容易蒙蔽了千金不换的宗旨.

不管谁人的话最正确, 我们认为理直的, 必然气壮, 气壮的必然有无比的强化能量, 就算身处未尽完善之地, 其大度也刚好补缺了遗漏的.甚至于发挥超倍的成就,  因此Judy 的cheap cheap地私校读得好, 有家长的官立亦不错, 不用身处high end 读书才是好.

相反地为着小利而容易妥协的, 为日子易过而走弯路的, 近见其成, 远见其败,无论往后计划如河周密. ,美好, 原意妥协的, 放弃原则, 人生总会经常消耗在各种妥协上, 其内耗是另类的慢性damages, 不可忽视.

本港的各类学校, 基础教育资源是足够的, 我相信好孩子无论在那儿, 依然有前途, 所痛心的是政府, 教育界, 家长是睁开眼睛说谎话, 没正确的保护他们的原来利益.

还有教育从来不是零和游戏, low end & high end 孩子们也是社会的部分, low end 的孩子得益, high end 的孩子必然是有賺, 两者是可以共赢的.

论语:
天下事有難易乎？為之，則難者亦易矣；不為，則易者亦難矣。人之為學有難易乎？學之，則難者亦易矣；不學，則易者亦難矣。

胡言乱语, 让大家不明所以, 勿怪!!

shadeslayer

Annie,

This thread is about private schools.  I can't believe people actually complain about private schools being too expensive for grass roots and is unfair to them.

There is no entitlement they used to have. they are private schools for xxxx sake.

I don't think the DSS and privates schools are necessarily right, but I will defend their freedom in whatever way I can.  Because if we don't do that, other freedom will be taken away from those who scream the loudest.

They started to complain about DSS, saying that they are government funded schools.  Then they complain about private schools being too expensive for grass roots.  What is next?  Grass root cannot afford a apartment in mid levels.  The state of the art medical equipment is not available to them because they are bought by a private hospital?

What is more immoral?  Grass root cannot afford certain private schools?  Or the private schools (run by private organization with their own money and assets) are stripped of their freedom.   If the private schools go crazy or not perform, the market will penalize them.  I am not mad because I cannot afford Eton.  I am proud of providing what I can afford to my child's education.  Why should they be mad if they cannot afford certain school?


Freedom (or an illusion of freedom) is the fundamental/core value of HK.  Please don't help others destroy it.  I urge everyone not to destroy it.

annie40

Hi Shadeslayer,

Just saw old friends here and I was carry away to say something different from the topic.  Please forgive my fault. I have no objection for anything about private schools.  Even some parents are willing to pay $200,000. a month for supreme education.  I would say 'wow' and bless their children to shoot up like rockets.

I fully love  to appreciate those people with true value of 'down to earth' that really let me see the clarity.

Don't worry about complaints.  Everyone complaints. Everywhere has protests.  Who cares?  It's a norm.  You have your right not to listen and you have freedom to laugh at those absurd attitude.  If all people is extreme smart , what chance you and your daughter left for survival.  

So it's a good sign to see everyone is different and has his/her own choices.

annie

shadeslayer

原帖由 annie40 於 13-06-17 發表
Hi Shadeslayer,

Just saw old friends here and I was carry away to say something different from the  ...

Annie, point taken.

annie40

关顾人类群体内, 年幼无依, 没任何能力自我照顾的孩子,为他们提供公平, 公开, 的基础教育, 这是人道, 亦是人类互助精神, 让生命延续下去.让社会好美好.

不要把'给予'美好教育给孩子们, 看待成为另一群体的损失, 尽力教育孩子成材, 他们将来定必回报社会的, 最终得益的是的大众..

shadeslayer

原帖由 annie40 於 13-06-18 發表
关顾人类群体内, 年幼无依, 没任何能力自我照顾的孩子,为他们提供公平, 公开, 的基础教育, 这是人道, 亦是 ...

Annie,

同意。但香港人人有書讀到十八歲，九成以上的學校是官津，而國際學科能力測驗中香港常名利前矛，基礎教育已不錯了。

annie40

公平, 公义, 好学校, 更好学校, 最好最好的学校, 在那里?谁能定义?

每天总会吃上几个苹果, 每次上山, 会特意挑一个样子最差, 最烂的带着, ,留下好的在家,  快步上山后, 特别口渴, 便拿出苹果来消暑, 然后跑步, 原本是在家中没人要, 很差劲的东西, 在我们最有需要时, 是多么甜美呢. 变成是世界上最美好的, 好苹果,坏苹果,因时, 因地, 因需要, 价值和意义便大不相同了.

这点经验让人连想到教育, 家长努力创造世上最好的苹果给孩子们, 于是学校变成了, ''没有最好, 只有更好', 人人高举金苹果的好处无穷. 而忽略了金苹果放在美好家庭的冷风间里, 发挥不了作用吧! 孩子是吃过了, 却没有味蕾, 没有渴求, 感受不到水果的好味道, 其最终的得着反不如没有太多選择的孩子, 吃上一个有点破烂的苹果,连core 也吃得冿冿有味呢!

这点或许亦引证了苦难的土壤上的种子更有生命力, 那管落在好学校, 烂学校, 只要很想学, 没得退, 那种吸收能力还是非常惊人的, 他们几乎是用尽每个细胞来了解事物的.

原来孩子在那类学校接受基础教育非关键所在, 读书的动机和习惯至为重要, 而动机又百分百受生活需求所支配的:没有急切需求的, 动机和目标必然不明, 不大, 不确. 于是中产家长老是挂出胡萝泊吸引孩子的注意力, 作为短程利诱的手段.  

今天教育者很想尽快把原来的学校打做成金苹果, 为了快,正,靓, 来个基因工程, 在DNA 内加点pesticide, 择顶优而教之, 见资源取之,  家长也在各方努力下找出真正金苹果学校, 让孩子就读,

世事的吊诡是原来金苹果学校不是organic的, 烂苹果却又不差,虽然有虫咬过,也简单证明没有加添pesticide DNA, 合安全食用的., 在这儿我是十分疑惑地想, 归根到底孩子有否强大的读书动机和态度是最重要,  如何培养，如何鼓励，如何爱惜，是门大学问，比谁是好苹果，一定必需吃上等金苹果更是重要吧

个人感受是传统名校转直资, 把大部分穷孩子拒之门外, 是带点基因工程的味道呢! 家长喜欢孩子就读, 认为是先进的改良版, 我没有异议, 毕竟口味是各式各样的, 简单喜欢, 对孩子有长远益处就好了!

mamamia_chan

反對 令到學校亂咁收費

shadeslayer

原帖由 mamamia_chan 於 13-06-18 發表
反對 令到學校亂咁收費

你唔去反對街市買餸貴？私立的好處係你嫌貴可以唔讀，只要夠多人唔讀，佢會減價或執粒。香港有九成以上學校係官津，政府包底，唔怕無書讀。是有不錯的基本教育。

街市買餸嫌貴，可以唔買，只要夠多人唔買，街市要收擋。

lawsonmoon

shadeslayer 發表於 13-6-15 00:49
Annie,

This thread is about private schools.  I can't believe people actually complain about privat ...

pls see my reply on 貴族化之迷, point 3.

shadeslayer

原帖由 lawsonmoon 於 13-06-22 發表
pls see my reply on 貴族化之迷, point 3.

一句怨氣可把是非不分的行為合理化？