.

WYmom

No doubt there are students speaking very good English in both HK and China, but they are only a small batch.  I think we are worrying about the average standard of all students in HK, which appears to deteriorate over the years.  If now only about 1/3 of all students can study in EMI schools, EMB should target to increase this gradually up, by improving the teachers' standard (employ more qualified teachers), equipping the schools with better English environment such as including reading scheme and compositions in the syllabus.

Increasing the average English standard of students is really important to keep the city to be competitive.  On the other hand, also need to do the same to our Chinese standard in mandarin.  

mayc

以前好多好老師是因為老師可以全心全意教書,現在老師做自評、外評、視學,開會,paper work,今日改這樣(基準;一條龍),明日又改這樣(會考達C;英中上落車)擾民之情況日日皆新,記得有一次看報紙,小思(作家兼中文大學教授),於敬師活動中,批評現時教育的現況和在上位高官急功近利的教育政策,李國章只好面黑黑離場,如果教統局想攪好教育,請不要再朝令夕改,讓老師做好教學的工作吧!

WingPa

mayc,

I totally agree with you.

WingPa

wetfoot

[quote]
SandyKL 寫道:
另外以普通話為母語其實比以廣東話為母語者，較易在英語發音上準確，因為普通話與英語都有一套音標學習，總比我地香港人學廣東話，靠模仿長輩或老師教授

WYmom

Wetfoot,

Seems that you know linguistic.  If then, what is your opinion in learning Chinese?  Do you suggest kids to start learning Chinese using Mandarin since primary or even since kindergarten?  Many IS only use Mandarin teachers to teach Chinese, so even if we talk to our kids in Cantonese at home, they may not be able to read Chinese in Cantonese, and they may not be able to speak Cantonese accurately.  Is this right? (I know a boy who is already studying in IS secondary now, he cannot speak Cantonese accurately though he is a local Chinese.)

SandyKL

[quote]
wetfoot 寫道:
[quote]
SandyKL 寫道:
另外以普通話為母語其實比以廣東話為母語者，較易在英語發音上準確，因為普通話與英語都有一套音標學習，總比我地香港人學廣東話，靠模仿長輩或老師教授

SandyKL

mayc 寫道:
以前好多好老師是因為老師可以全心全意教書,現在老師做自評、外評、視學,開會,paper work,今日改這樣(基準;一條龍),明日又改這樣(會考達C;英中上落車)擾民之情況日日皆新,記得有一次看報紙,小思(作家兼中文大學教授),於敬師活動中,批評現時教育的現況和在上位高官急功近利的教育政策,李國章只好面黑黑離場,如果教統局想攪好教育,請不要再朝令夕改,讓老師做好教學的工作吧!

對，教師是特區政府施政下之「重災區」職業之一，改不是不改，但改革太快、太速，叫教師吃不消，不好的教師沒資格留低，但好的教師雖可留低，也不見得值得高興，沉重工作量，各方壓力，簡直教人消磨意志!

j-ma-ma

WYmom,
Not sure if I did the right thing to PM you.  Have you receive anything from me?
Otherwise, can you PM me instead?

WYmom

j-ma-ma,

I have not received your message and have pm you. Pls check. Thanks.

mayc

香港政府對師資的培訓一向並不重視,今次大學削資,教院也是最多,回顧十幾年前,教育學院是分兩年制和三年制,中五畢業讀三年制,中七畢業是讀兩年制,讀完只是文憑教師,好的學生都讀大學啦!現在雖然教育學院巳升格為大學,但香港仍未有一間正式的師範大學,讀學院好定讀大學好,大家心裡有數!不能吸引好的學生去讀,可想而知便是一個惡性的循環,我對台灣的教育有少少認識,在台灣培訓老師的投資是很大的,以前入讀師範大學的學生都是公費的,學生不用付學費,而且仲有津貼,這可吸引一些家貧但成績好的學生入讀,台灣師範大學收的學生是全台最高分的學生,可以同台灣大學同分最好的學生,反觀香港,考得不好的學生才會讀教院,現時台灣師範大學有自費生和公費生之分,因為以前入讀師範大學的學生畢業後必須要從事教師工作最少五年,(如未能便要賠公費),回顧香港,政府對培訓老師的工作真是少得可憐!

:cry:
我都認為教改應從根本開始,由老師培養,培訓,幼稚園的教育的資助,小學全面開始.

在語文方面,我認為可以廣州為借鏡,在家用廣東話,在校用普通話,台灣也是在家用閩南話,在校用普通話,馬來西亞,星加坡都是一樣,如果現在是地球村的世界,我們怎能仍固步自封,大學裏有很多很有料的華藉教授,但香港的大學生很多未能聽得明普通話而錯過了很多機會.

wetfoot

wunma 寫道:
廣東話的9個音應等同音符me, re, dol, so(低音), dol,
la(低音), me, dol, la. 最尾的3個音為冇尾音的短音. 不過唔係個個字都讀到9個音.

如"因"的9個讀法便是:　"因"（ｍｅ），"忍"（ｒｅ），
"印"(dol)，"人"（so），"引"（dol)，"孕"(la)，"一" (me)，第８個音冇既，第９個係"日"(la)．

舉多個例如:"冬"字的9個音便是:
"冬","董", "凍", 第3及4個音冇既, "棟", "篤", 第8個音都冇, 第9個音係"讀".  

如有錯請指教.

Wunma(宏媽):

請不要介意，廣東話音標與音樂的音階風馬牛不相及(關)，"平上(上樓梯的上音)去入"是有解釋的，此處不想談得太深入，但要澄清，"因"是陽平聲，陽聲的平、上、去、入就分別是"因、忍、印、一"，要近似你的do-re-me就只可說陽聲四聲是高音四聲，"人引刃日"自然就是陰四聲了。

再說"冬"字8音(很少有第三個平聲)，應該分別是陽四聲："冬/董/凍/篤"，陰四聲："D+同[無此聲]/D+統[無此聲]/動/獨"，也就是因為廣東話每字已定高低音，廣東話歌詞較難填，不理會本身的音，就會變成像一些基督教聖詩般 - "耶穌愛我萬不錯"聽起來像"惹數哀餓萬筆初"，字已定高低音，不等於可以(上聲)do-re-me代入，只需想想"入"字，怎可能是甚麼do-re-me音？"入"聲本身說明短音。

十年或以前，電台的播音員發音很準，但現在就連電視新聞報導也常讀錯，香港超過一半人不會講"ng"字音(如牙牛顏)，而變成了"ar"音，那正正是不注重母語的結果。

對於懂樂理的人來說，do-re-me只用於教唱歌的啟蒙，西洋音階A-G+#(b)與中國的五音十二律同，但人有不同音域，強行以do-re-me代入那有正音？要讀正音可參考"粵音韻彙?"。

wymom寫道:
Wetfoot,

Seems that you know linguistic. If then, what is your opinion in learning Chinese? Do you suggest kids to start learning Chinese using Mandarin since primary or even since kindergarten? Many IS only use Mandarin teachers to teach Chinese, so even if we talk to our kids in Cantonese at home, they may not be able to read Chinese in Cantonese, and they may not be able to speak Cantonese accurately. Is this right? (I know a boy who is already studying in IS secondary now, he cannot speak Cantonese accurately though he is a local Chinese.)

WYmom,

The linguistic Philip and you are referring to should have been taught in Secondary school. I am afraid it is hard to find a Chinese language teacher in Secondary school with sufficient knowledge on this nowadays especially in those 英中.

About the dialect for teaching Chinese. That brings us back to the question of "mother tongue". Our mother tongue is Cantonese; not Putonghua (no one will know what is Mandarin 10 years later). You need it in your everyday life. Why drop it and turn to Putonghua? Same question is applicable for learning only English. The Government keeps on emphasising the importance of learning two written and three spoken languages. I cannot see the purpose of dropping one of them. We need the Cantonese for our daily life and for laying a good foundation of understanding power in the area of verbal communication. We need the Chinese written language for understanding the Chinese culture and wisdom and of course for building our understanding power in the area of words. We need the Putonghua for communicating with our people who do not speak Cantonese and as a common platform for comminicating with the foreigners who do not speak English (especailly from other European Countries other than UK; e.g. French). We need the English language for practical reasons such as job requirements or information from other countries. This is because English has become an International language (one of the International language only; not the whole world. Chinese is also one of the International language and is the most popular language in terms of population - That is why we call it putonghua).

My kid is not studying in IS; so he has no such problem as you mentioned. He likes to say the announcements when riding in MTR before the actual broadcasting is out. You may not appreciate it but he does speak them well in all three spoken languages. The point is: we need them all.

wetfoot

WYmom

wetfoot,

Thanks for your reply.  I have the same thinking as yours on learning Chinese.  So I wonder why so many DSS or private schools now only use mandarin to teach Chinese in primary instead of having a mandarin class everyday.  If the kids only use mandarin to learn Chinese, they will not be able to read Chinese words in Cantonese correctly.  But seems that this trend is welcome by parents.  Some even request kinders to teach Chinese using mandarin only.  I really puzzle.

ykwong

港台個網站有個節目重溫，叫粵講越岩聽。有興趣去聽下。有ｄ九聲既ABC介紹。識多ｄ都唔錯。