local school should adopt putonghua as teaching medium

cow

原帖由 friendlyguy 於 11-2-7 22:51 發表
BTW, can you tell me in what circumstances, 蘇東坡give his comment about the local Southern dialect? Where did it come from? I can’t find it in the Internet.

傳聞"蘇東坡被謫遷至惠州時感慨嶺南之人,而評價"面似猿,聲如鳥"


<日啖荔枝三百顆，不辭長作嶺南人>

wicked

friendly guy,
wow! another super-scientific feedback, despite of all my nonsensical mumblings. and its from a kid. how the world has evolved. i have to take this long and latin jargon-filled reply in a social forum as a true compliment for taking me so academically.  no need to appologize for ur wife. i think she is wise: a nonsensical and wicked person like me hardly deserves that much time and energy from a child prodigy. there are far better things to engage him than this. but maybe u as his proud father could have consulted him first if the concept of evolution is only limited to biology before ur first reply to this thread, then i wouldnt have taken u so slightly to the point of possibly hurting ur fragile ego.

some of the examples i have quoted might have given the impression that my opinions are well backed by scientific evidences. but i have said it clearly more than once that my opinions are largely based on my observations and media exposure, rather than any scientific training. i actually think science has been overrated, as if something of scientifically proven must be closer to the truth than something yet to be proven.  
scientific methodology is an effective way to help us understand the world. but science has its limit and shouldnt be held in supremacy to deny other approaches in seeing the world. all the scientific theories are conditioned. once beyond the conditions, a revamp of the theory is inevitable.   

when one is obsessed with science, one might trade off his trust in his own senses. for example, let me work out my girlfriend’s attractiveness in statistical details before i make a proposal to marry her. marriage is a big thing in life, a high scientific standard must be commanded.

thanks for dropping all the big names but whats the relevance whether i understand the difference between psychology or psychoanalysis or who is the ultimate father of psychology? go and ask ppl around who is the father of psychology and see which name comes up the most often and i will go with that answer. surely i m not as knowledgable as u about psychology judging by the names u dropped, but how does it affect my comment about psychology being a new scientific subject so as to justify the controversy over the reliability of IQ tests? i m not writing a text book and i m not obliged to do background research on every detail, esp if the detail factors little in my opinion. its called good sense of judgement. lacking that, u could easily make urself look like a twat however knowledgable u r.

right from the very beginning, i have pointed out cantonese should give way to mandarin becoz cantonese is the least evolved chinese dialect and cantonese culture is not well-regarded throughout chinese history becoz of the slow evolution in the cantonese area due to warm weather. isnt that obvious enough that evolution (therefore genetics) is relevant in the discussion? the links given by kaykaychow do tell a lot about phonetics about cantonese but the writer has focused on the wrong direction, which is why he thinks cantonese being more tonal and more difficult to learn is to cantoense advantage as a communication tool. cantonese has 9 tonations and mandarin 3 or 4 depending on area. ancient greek was tonal too but modern greek is not. why? being so knowledgeable in the relevant field, how come this professor hasnt noticed the southward shift of language influence from north to south throughout history and asked why? i like a line said by alibaba’s founder Ma yun a lot: “its more important to get things done in the right direction than get things done well.” changing the teaching medium to mandarin is definitely the right direction for hong kong.

yes, if 1% of difference in DNA between us and the great apes has made a world of difference between our numbers and living conditions, difference between races however small does give one more survival edge over another. if A’s genes have been subjected to more changes as compared to Lucy(or whoever as by the most recent scientific saying) than B’s genes compared to Lucy, A is considered more evolved than B. mandarin has incorporated more changes than cantonese if to compare with ancient chinese, meaning mandarin has progressed faster.  

yes we are all chinese but all the creatures on earth are all earth beings, why bother categorizing them into different groups under hideous scientific latin names? ur sudden relax of scientific standard shocks me.  

cantonese ppl are mainly the descendant of the tribal native people of ancient Bai3yue4 tribes. Bai means hundreds. Yue means outsiders or beyond the changjiang river. that is what the northern Han called the ppl living in the now cantonese area 2000 years ago. southerners below the changjiang river were only assimilated into the Hans culture after kingdom wu subjugated the southern part of china. most cantonese ppl  have different subclades of genetics compare to the chinese of the central and northern region(along and above the changjiang river), which is why cantonese look slightly different by having a bigger jaw frame, thicker lips, different mongoloid eyes and slightly darker and shorter on average.

i wasnt going to do background research on So Dongpo's words. it was merely a hear-say. disregard for southerners and southern culture in chinese history is not news. hk’s short and extraordinary history and seclusion from china might have made ppl in hk less oblivious of that.

i think u totally missed my point about the chimp’s short-term memory and NBA players reflex. trade-off was the key concept in my argument yet u seem to have totally missed that out in ur extended discussion. again, wrong focus and thus an utter waste of detailing. the experiment sugggested some instint-like abilities for short-term gain in our ancient ancestors might have been traded off for abilities that would allow more sophisticated plans for long term interest during the course of evolution. based on that i suggested that black ppl, being less evolved than the white and asians, might have been thru less trade-offs and thus retained a bit more of our ancient ancestors instinct-like traits which allows them an advantage in basketball which quick reaction probably matters more than strategy esp in the NBA level. blacks are not as good with strategy which is why most of the NBA coaches are white. the blacks probably do have a better short-term memory, allowing them spot the positions of their teammates and opponents more instant and react on that slightly faster.  i thought ur scientific training should have prepared u to be more easily enlightened in a fairly straightforward extrapolation like this one.

a good experiment requires both good intuition and good reasoning. intuition and reasoning do not have to be exclusive of each other but its probably more to good intuition’s credit that makes a difference between a great scientist and a mediocre sci-tech worker who only knows to focus on tedious details yet misses out the big picture and the key point. sorry i m compelled to drop a line by a big name, einstein, simply put as “intuition is the gift from god and reasoning the servant.” (original words:The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.)

by the way, does knowing the difference between an ape and a monkey give an uplift to one’s ego or what? i like to tease naughty kids with “u cheeky monkey”,  should “u cheeky ape” be more appropriate since we homo sapiens sapiens is closer to an ape than a monkey? -- excuse my utter ignorance of the proper scientific names for ape and monkey. i hope that doesnt discount my point? someone really needs to get out more of his scientific closet.

honestly, no, i dont know much about lucy or those latin jargons in ur long list of point 1 to 12, nor do i care much. but good to know the jaw muscle gene mutation theory is not final. but thats norm for science. there will always been new evidences and the consequent revamps of the old theories. as for any further discussion on point 1 to 12,  an academic forum might be more appropriate.  the experts there might be interested. i m done. my point was merely that not all mutations are bad and new species comes from mutation. the rest are experts concern.

how is my idea that learning a more evolved more efficient language could benifit ur competitivenss and thus the succession of ur gene funny to the point of death calling? u may need to work up ur laugh threshhold to a more functional level if ur simplistic mindset has been proven hopeless of further enlightment. u really make another good example of cantonese ppl’s simplistic mindset, despite of much education, which can still only manage to take words one by one literally.  no wonder cantonese businessmen have a reputation as petty merchants. man’s history of civilization is a process of making more and more efficent tools to benefit our survival competitiveness. language and tool making are what differentiate us most from the other creatures. language is essentially also a tool, a vital tool for us to understand and be understood. dont u want to be equipped with a more efficent tool to serve that purpose? if u had the option of not to learn english, would u have taken the chance not to learn it? if yes, would u be having a better job than what u r having now? and would u be more likely to marry someone better than ur current wife or worse?  if ur wife is better looking than u, she has better gene than u and thus better luck for ur next generation. is that all so difficult to follow?

sorry i dont have any example of racial eradication by gene dilution. i knew it is not a well-worded and an easily misconceived statement.  but i didnt expect my words would be taken so literally on a social forum. my point in elaboration was: “pls relax, bloody racial eradication such as a genocide rarely happens in a civilzed society anymore. instead, gene dilution will take place. the less evolved, less pleasant, less competitive lot will be outdone by the more evolved. the less evolved will have less chance to pass on their genes and their gene representation in the gene pool of the population will become smaller and smaller (dilution).”

i mentioned genocide in africa, a less evolved and less civilized place, as a contrast to gene dilution. “proposing to eradicate cantonese?’ --  give me a break.

[ 本帖最後由 wicked 於 11-2-10 17:12 編輯 ]

wicked

1. this is the link showing the IQ vs Attractiveness study:

http://chuiko.com/index.php?newsid=2985


2. i also noticed hainan was marked differently from china in the IQ by country map but that might have been done on purpose. i remember hainan scores the lowest in the national survey i came across. including hainan might skew the bigger china below 105. given the small population in hainan, such a skew is probably considered not justifiable. just my unscientific guess.

uncleedward

Dear wicked

趁着家中除一兒娚女其他孩子都在外國，幾兄弟姊妹陪母親過年到大陸外省幾個大寺廟走了一圈，回來趁有點時間寫點東西。

正如 eviepa 所說，這兒祇不過是一個茶餘飯後吹水的地方，我就先介紹一下我喜歡的兩首小提琴曲子。

第一首是Perlman (即便不是最也一定是現今最好之一) 演奏的「舒特拉的名單」 (Schindler's List)的主題曲。中國人經常認為自己災難深重，但比起猶太人，唉……
(若只聽音樂，可略去頭50秒。)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qLePhm-xGs&feature=related

若上面的曲子未能令你流淚，試一試夜闌靜時獨自聽一下小提琴曲之中最廣為人知的 Zigeunerweisen (流浪者之歌)的第三段。(Perlman 開始前對自己因小兒麻痺而殘疾的双腿的坦然自謔也是經典的，個人覺得比 annie40 介紹的 Amiee Mullins 更應為殘疾人士的榜樣:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEmbFSiJzEQ&feature=fvw

而我個人最喜愛的版本，是由上世紀公認最佳的小提琴家 Heifetz 所演奏的。他的第三段，拉得比任何人都慢，如泣如訴，直扣心弦。

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk2kfD5ZKls&feature=related

當然，以你的聰明，當應猜到我要說的：這兩位天才小提琴家，都是納粹口中低等民族的猶太人。

前天陶傑又再在他蘋果的專欄重覆白種人優越論。就連口沒遮攔的陶傑，也只是說”條頓語系（ Teutonic）的民族……的優秀品質"，不直說日耳曼民族，甚至不用已替代 Teutonic 的 Germanic 一字，可見此話題之敏感。My dear friend, tread carefully because we are treading on other people’s memories which are intertwining with some of mankind’s most shameful episodes in history.

The danger of your thinking lies in the fact that they are partially correct. For example, Cantonese people in general are not as good looking as 江浙一帶人士; Blacks in general score worse than Whites in all kinds of academic achievement tests; beautiful people have higher IQ. All of these are not new but your interpretations and the deductions from them are wrong.

As I said before, I am not interested in discussing the thesis of your post. It is happening anyway. The Chinese government has been doing this to other minority ethnicities since the first day they came to the power. By 2047, PTH will have replaced Cantonese as the teaching medium for long.

You, however, base your thesis on your idea that Cantonese the language and Cantonese the people are less evolved than the northern ones. I think you mean less refined and less intelligent (good looking) respectively. Remember what I said? Adoption of PTH in China has nothing to do with natural evolution of the language. You have not come back with any valid counter arguments.

If we look at the broader picture, although I am not a linguist, but contrary to your belief, I can assure you that language is not primarily a means of communication but a means of communion(sorry I don’t know how to translate this.). In most parts of the world, ethnic unity and cultural identification are routinely defined by language.

With the exceptions of Switzerland and India (the latter has ten official languages), multiple languages used in a country often lead to the country being split up. Serbs 塞爾維亞人 and Croats克羅地亞人 called themselves Yugoslavs 南斯拉夫人 and pretended to like each other, but they are two nationalities now. Slovakia’s 斯洛伐克 split from Czechoslovakia 捷克 was also largely a result of language conflicts. Canada and Belgium are both having real dangers of having the country breaking up into ethnicities speaking different languages. Imagine you are in Belgium, can you settle the issue by a rational discussion of whether Flemish(Dutch) or French is more refined? Imagine you are in Quebec, can you settle the issue by a rational discussion whether English or French is more refined?

English originated from German and we know George I, as King of England, spoke no English, but finally instead of German, English has been adopted in England. Then can we say English is more refined than German? Can we then ask the German to give up German and switch to English for a better future? The spread of a language is often a reflection of political and economic power. Aesthetical consideration, my friend, together with linguistic evolution, simply occupies no place at all in history. Arnold Toynbee 湯恩比observed soon after the First World War that "the growing consciousness of Nationality had attached itself … almost exclusively to mother tongues."

Whether to use PTH has simply nothing to do with the question whether PTH or Cantonese is more refined.

I joined an elite firm right after leaving university. The company boasted of only hiring the top 1 or 2% of university graduates. When I worked in its London branch, one third of the employees were Oxbridge graduates. During one of the annual dinners, a senior manager made the observation that all the partners brought along to the dinner by the employees were either beautiful or handsome. This should answer your question why beautiful people have higher IQ. I’d like to quote here again the third paragraph of the report in your link:

“Researchers tend to explain this to the fact that the beautiful and intelligent people are attracted to each other, their children tend to inherit not only the physical beauty of their parents, but their craving for intellectual development, as well as the ability to acquire knowledge. These observations, it was said, were confirmed in the course of similar studies in the U.S.”

The explanation is simple.

「江東弟子多才俊」，歷史上著名出產俊秀人才，如花美女的地方，不分南北，其實都是較富庶的地方。有錢了，娶個漂亮媳婦，好像「非誠勿擾2」齊奮所講的改良品種乃天經地義之事。幾代人下來，地方的人物風貌就不同了。This has nothing to do with natural evolution. 香港一李家，多年來不斷捐款牛記，但第二代全在二三線大學唸書，但觀其挑媳婦及生孫仔的方法，可斷言其第三代必為牛記學生。

南北之論，跡近維園阿叔所好，不說為佳。

We all agree there are differences in intelligence of different populations (you may notice I don’t say ‘races’ here, and not even the more modern term ‘ethnicities’), but no scientists can tell us yet how much is attributable to genetic factors and how much to environmental factors. Take East and West Germany in the old days or North and South Korea nowadays, one would imagine the difference is attributable mainly to environmental factors. However, it will be much more difficult to compare a tribe in Hainan to mandarins in Beijing. The influence of stereotyping on different ethnicities also adds to the problem. However, scientists so far have no proofs whatsoever that there are significant differences in cognitive abilities among different ethnicities.

It is a bit sad to see that you have not challenged the basic ideas in my previous posts but at the same time refuse to look into the basis of your own arguments.

死性不改，本想遊戲文章一番，但…….

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 11-2-10 21:41 編輯 ]

wicked

Hi again Uncle Edward

always an engligntening experience reading ur well versed reply (even orchestrated with classical music this time -- unfortunately i m not that much a musical person. basketball is more of my arena -- i guess that easily makes me more monkey like than u?) i look forward to more of the sorts and being challenged that my opinions are wrong. i think thats a good way for myself to examine my opinions, and for self-reflection and improvement. maybe thats why i m still tempted to visit forums from time to time despite of time constraint.

no offence, but i guess u wouldnt deny that u are quite a snob, judging by “跡近維園阿叔所好”?  that somehow gets me to think of winston churchill’s comment about democracy:”the best argument against democracy is a 5min conversation with an average voter.” he is probably one of the most respected snobs in england though. thx for Washburn’s quote in ur previous response. definately well-said there but then again i would only take his idea as an ideal worth striving for, just like john lennon’s “imagine no country no heaven”. its ideals like these that shape man’s civilization. we strive to be fair bcoz we are born to favour.  as long as recources are limited, man is territorial, our sense of belonging comes from the feeling of sameness, and segregation by borders persists, race, nation and discrimination will persist. “We are born to be discriminatory on difference, which compels us to be distinguished, distinguished enough to discriminate the less distinguished. Thats our bad karma.” -- by a 16yr old high school girl in northern china(ha’erbin). its all her own original words in english(not my translation). i was utterly impressed by her philosophical insight at such a tender age.  she is fair, tall and very good looking too.

time constraint is probably more of a problem for ppl like me who are still in the striving years than those already more or less into a sheltered bay(such as u?).  i didnt re-read ur previous reply and merely replied based on the impression that the key note of ur response is racial equality(as well supplemented by ur daughter’s well-written article), the rest are just trivial if no consensus can be reached upon the equality issue. the difference between u and me is that u probably think 維園阿叔 could have turned out more or less just like u had they had ur upbringing and education and worked as hard as u have, whereas i tend to think quite unlikely if they look less attractive than u to begin with. look is a representation of genetic make-up which determines one’s potential and later exposure determines to what extend such a potential can be reached. gene is the result of accumulated expsures and selections our ancesters had been thru, ie encompassing a far longer time-line than the exposure we have in our life-time, by simple logic, gene certainly matters more than upbring and education in ones outcome.

u must have come across our chinese old saying “一命二运三风水四积阴德五读书”.  great wisdom there. i see 命=gene.
an under-educated but phyiscally more attrative and street smart guy can easily lead a more interesting and meaningful life than a physically less attractive booksmart nerd. i do think education in modern society has been overrated, resulting in quite a waste of resources. its no news that phD graduates are unemployed or doing work that they over-qualify. or how to justify the recources in producing a degree holder in international politics who ends up polishing others bathrooms?  that seems to be the case in Chip Tao’s house. I used to be Chip Tao’s fan for a very short while after watching a few europe-tour TV episodes guided by him despite i cant say i m all that keen with his over the top pro-west attitude. i was quite fond of his sharp critical sense till i read a shamelessly arse-kissing ariticle by him about David Tang. he went straight into the pathetic bin after that. apparently he is a die-hard cantonese defender too. one more point down the drain.

i dont have scientific backings for racial cognitive differences. one more time i am saying this: my opinions are based on my observations and media exposure, and my regard for good senses is greater than whether its scientifically proven or not. our senses are like parents to science, without sense, whats the point of science? science by and large is still very limited to the scope of linear logic and reasoning, i doubt it can ever explains intuition and asesthetics. can music be interpreted by science?  yet a good piece of melody can easily charm more ppl than a great scientific writing. science is powerful but not mighty.  science is to explain the world based on what we know, there is no limit to the world yet what we know is always limited. thats the limit of science. its this realization that changes my view about religion.

“有錢了，娶個漂亮媳婦...改良品種乃天經地義之事” -- have u ever asked why? why are we intuitively attracted to good looking ppl, and associating that with改良品種? do we do that becoz of scientific backing? why would most ppl intuitively prefer a physically more attrative girl from a humble background than an average looking girl from a rich family?  why teachers tend to favour good looking kids and good looking kids are easily more popular in school than a less attractive kid? even babies prefer to look at pictures of more symmetrical faces(that is so far the best science can tell about physical attractiveness in precision: attractive faces are more symmetrical than unattractive ones). all these are becoz of nature’s calling. this is exactly one obvious aspect of what i meant by man’s evolution being guided by aesthetics. i doubt if such preference could ever be rationalized thru science as long as science is yet to explain intuition.

same as reasoning, aesthetic consideration plays a role in every aspect of our life but not necessarily as easily self-aware as reasoning. there has been philosophical debates over whether civilization has progressed thru reasoning or aesthetics. i would say both hand in hand with aesthtics as the spinal cord(sacred gift) and reasoning the back bone(faithful servant). a similar analogy may also apply for good look and intelligence.  

its probably impossible to explain aesthetics thru language. language is more a product of logic and reasoning. i will try to explain my association of aesthetics with energy efficiency.  try to compare the lips between a black and a white, whats the difference and why so? what do we use our lips for? -- eating and talking. i will skip the eating bit and just focus on talking since thats what we differ most from the great apes. which type of lips would be more energy efficient in producing the same sound, for example, “bo”? try to think of the energy supply(blood) to support the functioning of the lips, would a pair of big thick lips demands more supply or a pair of small thin lips? which type of lips would be considered more attractive aesthetically? the sound produced by which type is less abrasive and less coarse? i know the difference is probably almost negligible but however small, there is a difference that judgement of preference can be made.

ur quote:“Bergman’s rule: Mammals’ body size tends to be greater in populations that live in cooler climates because a smaller surface area to mass ratio allows for better heat retention.” -- another good example of an energy efficient adaptation, which is why we aspire to be tall instead of short.

whats the point of energy efficiency? -- so u can save energy for something else, for example, to support a higher level of mental functioning such as becoming more empathetic, more insightful and more sophisticated.

“I have a certain flair for language. Although I was born in Hong Kong, I can pass as a northerner if only 閑話家常 is involved.” -- its becoz u have a more refined hearing systems(ear, nerves, brain cells and the wirings in between etc) which can tune to sounds and tones very acutely, and also a more refined sound producing system(throat, tongue and facial muscles etc) which can mimic well what u hear. good mimicking is the reflection of a more developed empathy. does it ever occur to u why black americans seem to speak with a slightly different accent from the white(even as smart as Obama and his wife)? ppl might say its becoz of the different neighbourhood they grow up in. maybe, but i tend to think different physical features and empathetic ability also play a part.

language is primarily for communication. the others such as communion are just secondary added values. “the spread of language is often a reflection of political and economic power.” -- true but what results in such power? ultimately its down to the genetic level, which is why singapore could become independant from malaysia becoz chinese is a more evolved ethnic group than the malays; and for the same reason, the whole south east asia’s economy is dominated by the overseas chinese living in these countries despite chinese only make up a small percentage of the population and chinese settlement in these countries is only of a couple hundred years history.

do u also notice the northward shift of cultural centre in both the east and west?  

as said in my reply to eviepa, a culture thats more aesthetically appreciated will translate into power of influence. that explains the southward shift of language influence from the north. the adoption of mandarin as the official spoken language in china is hardly by chance. the replacement and merging of the ancient local dialects in the south by and with the dialects from central china to become nowadays cantonese is also not by chance. these are all results of natural selection.

english is certainly a more refined language than the other european languages. despite of its german origin, it has also incorporated influences from various other dialects and languages. more changes means greater the refinement which allows the language to be more precise thus more efficient in communicating mind work(its said only 10% at best of our mind work gets translated into language). i have come across quite a few non-english europeans who said they prefer to write business letter in english as its clearer and more precise. many chinese scholars in the scientific field also finds english more effective in communicating scientific ideas.

i know french has a good name for its music-like-ness. but even during my student days, i already found languages of anglo-saxon origin(english, german and scandinavians) more pleasant than the latin range of languages(french, spanish, italian). french is probably a bit in between.  

man’s history is a history of learning from mistakes. i dont think by turning a blind eye to racial differences is a justified and dignify lesson from the tragedy of holocaust.  

a tolerant open mind starts from acknowledging differences and racial differences are obvious from face to living conditions.  

i probably havent been able to cover all the points u raised but this is the best i can do for today.

[ 本帖最後由 wicked 於 11-2-10 17:12 編輯 ]

annie40

谢谢uncle 送来三首好曲子.
我对音乐艺术是一窍不通, 然每当听到殿堂级的演奏或意大利歌剧, 必潜然落泪, 那种震撼, 非言语笔墨可形容.
任何艺术到了一定境界, 自然地超脱人世语言情感物欲等障碍, 是天籁之音矣.
门外汉如我, 不懂欧语, 歌剧竟可令人如痴如醉.
原来音乐才是宇宙的共通语, 把信息传到心惂里.
经常想除却母语外, 音乐才是我们必修语, (反正语文千万, 能活用各地外语的真不多, 除非个别拥有难得的语文环境),

中國人經常認為自己災難深重，但比起猶太人，唉……

关于猶太人的苦难, 似乎香港人认识不深. 推荐看以下好书:
Alicia – My Story
(by Alicia Appleman Jurman)

如想了解猶太宗教信仰和猶太人家教, 可看:
Faith by Erich Segal
(Jewish and Catholic religions woven in a beautiful love story), 作者父亲是rabbi, 对猶太家庭的生活描述很详尽.

无可否认, 二千多年来猶太人散落世界各地, 竟然奇迹般地生存, 比原居民活得更出息, 除了太家同意猶太人行聪明, 我个人的看法是有以下原素:
a)
家教极严, 生活极有规律.家族关系极亲密, 有情有义, 父慈子考, 兄幼弟恭. 家规上看似男女不平等.
偏是家族对女子极度尊重和保护.
b)
上帝的子民
–自古以来无论何时何地猶太人都没忘记自身是上帝的子民, 这种自豪感带给他们希望, 带给他们安全感, 加上先烈先祖的丰功伟绩, 树立好榜样, 容许他们站在最黑暗时代, 只要一息常存, 依然相信黑暗尽头是光明大道.
c)
生命时刻受到威胁, 生活无保障
或处身不公平的社会环境中. 与生俱来便要争扎求全.

认识的非凡朋友, 历史伟人, 和当代成就桌越人才, 全需合乎以上三个条件. 或最少其二.

再看美国黑人, 完全合乎
( C ), 但是 (a) and (b) 依然欠奉,
Dr. Martin Luther Kind Jr 死后四十三年, 美国黑人的前景还是一蹶不振….
老是埋怨白人政府的无理打压, 可是打压得最重的是Jewish and Chinese, 不是活得好吗.

曾说中国人跟猶太人有共通处, 是按以上三个法则而说的. 亦是个人主观意见. 大家未必同意

曾想女儿是中国人, 有五千年文化的光辉岁月, 亲戚中刚好有些念书材料,
勉强跟 (b) 攀上关系, (a) 是有点牵强, 但粗略地算有家教吧! (又自以为是?) 哎! (c) 就……毫不相干了.
因此难有突出成就, 是意料之中呢.
或许应该狠心地贱让孩子吗?

以上分享是离题吧, 但见wicked文章多了, 很累! Wicked, 这纯是我个人喜好, 无偏见的. 勿骂! (就像喜爱吃肉, 还是吃素).  从文中见君见多识广, 如能可另开新topic, 教我通识,小女子感谢万分.  

原帖由 uncleedward 於 11-2-9 23:08 發表
Dear wicked

趁着家中除一兒娚女其他孩子都在外國，幾兄弟姊妹陪母親過年到大陸外省幾個大寺廟走了一圈，回來趁有點時間寫點東西。

正如 eviepa 所說，這兒祇不過是一個茶餘飯後吹水的地方，我就先介紹一下我喜歡的兩首小 ...

friendlyguy

Wicked,

First of all, I have to apologize that I thought you were a science-oriented person. The reasons of my misunderstanding may be:

1.        You talked about evolution----a biological science term
2.        IQ-----a psychological term
3.        You said you were trained in the life-science field.
4.        Your quotation of seemly scientific evidence: (a map showing IQ distribution of different countries and a hear say in a Chinese symposium)

Correct me if I am wrong, the word ‘intuition’ only appeared in the post no 37 dated 6/2/2011.

If I know it sooner that you do not value science and do things according to intuition only, I would probably never reply to this thread and have my energy conserved. It is because I totally agree with uncleedward’s idea ‘I do think everyone is allowed his/her own biases no matter how weird or how wicked they may seem.’ as long as he/she doesn’t act like he has concrete evidence. Moreover, I must thank God for you are not the policymaker and pray for that you never become one.


“when one is obsessed with science, one might trade off his trust in his own senses. for example, let me work out my girlfriend’s attractiveness in statistical details before i make a proposal to marry her. marriage is a big thing in life, a high scientific standard must be commanded.”

Your idea of learning English to find a mate with better genes to produce offspring with you makes me feel you will really act this way!

I believe in 見微知著，ignorance in ‘common sense’ in certain field, e.g. psychology, biology indicates that this person is a 門外漢.

I also agree with Einstein (one of my son’s favourite scientists)’s words. ‘ The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.’ However, not everyone with seemingly intuitive mind is gifted. Also, once an idea comes out, one must use scientific method to prove it. I think it is exactly what Einstein had done!

‘yes we are all chinese but all the creatures on earth are all earth beings, why bother categorizing them into different groups under hideous scientific latin names? ur sudden relax of scientific standard shocks me.’  

If we continue to categorize, the ultimate classification will be individual names. Then, we have no need to discuss the differences in IQ and esthetics anymore, since everyone should know every individual is different. Can you tell me which individual is most ‘evolved’ in China using your intuition?


I came across a web site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_ ... ons#Related_studies

Although I am not a great fan of comparing IQs in different Nations, I think these data are more trustable than what you quoted. These data also had been questioned like other IQ studies, but at least we can trace the reference and a book had been published. Not like the symposium, which you had never given its name and the obviously wrong map.

The data show Hong Kong’s average IQ is 107, which ranked no. 1 in the whole world. China has a score of 100, which is no.12. Can you use your superb intuition to enlighten me what the indication is? Don’t tell me China’s score is lowered by the scores of Cantonese and Hainan, since everyone knows the predominated population in Hong Kong is Cantonese.

Can you also enlighten me, according to this data, what teaching medium should Hong Kong use? Should we continue to use the less ‘evolved’ language Cantonese that, according to your logic, proved to make Hong Kong’s high IQ. Or, should we change to PTH that is used in mainland, which showed a lower IQ? Or, the less ‘evolved’, less esthetically pleasing dialect Cantonese should be use in mainland as teaching medium so as to raise China’s IQ level? Or, the gene pool of Hong Kong people suddenly became most ‘evolved’ in the world? Does it show Hong Kong people are the most aesthetically pleasing in the world (Hong Kong’s female should be very happy!)?

In order not to be Chimpanzee like as Iamfine commented, I better stop here.



Regards,

Friendlyguy

P.S. My son is not a child prodigy, he is just an ordinary kid who likes to read. I think it is not a waste of time for him since he has a lot of things to learn (good or bad, of-course under guidance) from you. He feels it is fun and became a fan of uncleedward. So, please well behave, Uncle!

cow

原帖由 friendlyguy 於 11-2-12 03:00 發表
I came across a web site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_ ... ons#Related_studies

Although I am not a great fan of comparing IQs in different Nations, I think these data are more trustable than what you quoted. These data also had been questioned like other IQ studies, but at least we can trace the reference and a book had been published. Not like the symposium, which you had never given its name and the obviously wrong map.

I don't thnk the IQ scores are related to the topic but below is the more updated one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality#National_IQ_and_QHC_values

wicked

friendly guy

i appreciate ur devotion to this topic which u seem to despise much.

as by ur high scientific standard, how come u didnt point out one obvious flaw in the IQ link u provided: hk as a city but being compared with other nations? A nation covers cities and countrysides. Ppl living in cities are far more exposed and subjected to more selection pressure as a result of keener competition due to a denser population. i assume its a consensus in this thread that one’s IQ(the measurement of which is mainly based on logic and reasoning) can be trained up by exposure. That's why city ppl in general seem to be smarter than ppl living in the countryside. The fact that HK has attracted talents from around the world after its take off to become one of the most populated and competitive cities in the world, and being blessed with both eastern and western culture, could account more for the high score than the Cantonese gene pool.  i would be the least surprised if beijing and shanghai score higher than hong kong on a city to city comparison. (there seems to be some relevant discussion on this in one of the threads here). actually if i dont recall the data wrong, both zhejiang(a province near shanghai) and hebei(the province which beijing is within) score close to 110 in the IQ by province data i came across. If the hk score is much due to the Cantonese gene pool, we shouldn't see Guangdong and Hainan on the low end of the spectrum. (again if u think I fabricated all these, suit urself.)

China scoring 100 is not bad at all, considering still more than 50% (used to be 80% before the economic reform) of the population are living in the countryside as peasants who not only have far less social exposure than ppl in hk, many are even deprived of basic education (whereas  education for children under 15 is compulsary by law in hk and hk being an international trading port has also enjoyed very dynamic and diverse influences from around the world).

the bi-lingual culture in both hk and singapore might have given a boost to their scores. In biology, hybrid is known to have a survival advantage. That might well apply for cultural hybrid too.

I actually came across this link before but I didn't quote it here bcoz i thought data of city vs nation can be misleading. but now having another look, the pattern of the data across the world is of no big difference from the map i quoted. the reason i quoted the map is mainly to highlight the north-southward pattern.

if hk’s high score attributes much to the cantonese gene pool, how come vietnam merely scores 95, which is actually consistent with hainan’s score i came across? vietnamese share more common genes with cantonese than northern chinese with cantonese. north korea, also a communist country of similar size as vietnam, scores 105. i would expect north koreans are far less exposed socially than hk ppl. so could their high score be more to do with genetic advantage? if yes, it makes perfect sense to say that northern chinese, who actually look more like koreans than cantonese, have more refined genes than southern cantonese. thanks for providing evidence for my point.   

Based on my experience in hk (which i mentioned before: out of the bright and refined chinese i have come across here, more often than not, they are not cantonese),  I tend to think the representation of non-Cantonese chinese elites in hk could be well over the non-Cantonese representation in the whole population.

Did I ever try to pretent to be an expert? Or just ur scientific conclusion becoz i mentioned the seeminly academic words like  evolution, aesthetics, IQ and life science?  U have focused too much on my background rather than my opinions, as if if i were an expert my opinions must be unquestionable, but if I were just an amature, my opinions must be nonsensical.  Didnt i said it clearly that i dont see an inevitable connection between my education training and my opinions?  

as a guy, u r really petty about unimportant details. Its rather agonizing to have a discussion with a petty and simplistic mindset as almost everything needs to be explained repeatedly and literally as if talking to a pre-school kid.

I always take on a cautious attitude towards ppl who introduce themselves as nice, friendly, easy going. More often than not, it simply reflects the aspired traits they fail to have in real life.
   
Evolution is not limited to biology. It means a process of small and gradual changes and is also applied to linguistics and sociology. We can even apply evolution to how an idea comes about from scratches or how a discussion developes.

When the word "intuition" comes into the discussion depends on how the discussion has evolved. "Imagination" can come in too who knows when.  
Now u know how much I value intuition why u still bothered not conserving ur energy till 3am? Was it based on a scientifically reasoned conclusion or a statistically calculated decision?
   
I make my judgement based on both reasoning and intuition. being intuitive is not a counter statement against science. By accusing me of not valuing science tells much about ur sense of judgement. I have high respect for science but I don't think science can explain everything and I have no less regard for ideas yet to be scientifically proven than the proven as long as the idea makes good sense to me. Not every idea can be proven by science as long as science is yet to find the door into beauty and kindness.

"Your idea of learning English to find a mate with better genes to produce offspring with you makes me feel you will really act this way!" is it of much ur concern how i would act? or r u trying to say u did just the opposite? be that the case, good for u to have made such a sacrifice for humanity. Waste of resources can be cut short.

"I believe in 見微知著，ignorance in ‘common sense’ in certain field, e.g. psychology, biology indicates that this person is a 門外漢." someone who can't act on what he believes is a good validation of his incompetence.  Thats why he works on 見微more than needed yet always misses the point. By ur logic, since u know so much common sense such as the differences between psychology and psychoanalysis, should that make u an insightful "men2 nei4 han4" in psychology? But how come u seem never tired of displaying ur lack of insight and good sense? however much u aspire to be friendly, u really dont have to validate my judgement about the wastefulness of over education. I dont want to be in debt of others friendly gesture too much.

"However, not everyone with seemingly intuitive mind is gifted. Also, once an idea comes out, one must use scientific method to prove it. I think it is exactly what Einstein had done!" again, the sense and logic demonstrated here tell a lot about how gifted u must be. Prove the idea of "wicked" scientifically if u can.  

the charm of reasoning is precision wheras of intuition is ambiguity. The notion of "most" is about precision, how could "the most evolved" be derived from intuition alone? how to rate the quality of a scientific mind coming up with such an illogical question? When discussion over racial differences still causes so much controvercy, where lies the ground for finding the most evolved individual? If sex cannot be discussed, is there a point to talk about sex education?            
      
dont worry. u r not chimp like at all. chimps have better connected brainnetwork and would have learned what backfire means long before this.

[ 本帖最後由 wicked 於 11-2-12 23:21 編輯 ]

friendlyguy

Wicked,

My intuition tells me I am not welcome here. Holding a different opinion is considered to be an unfriendly act. But I am here to make some final remarks thick skinned.

1.        ‘I actually came across this link before but I didn't quote it here bcoz i thought data of city vs nation can be misleading’ If you quote this link well before hand and say this is misleading, I will give you this credit. But now, my intuition tells me you are very skillful in manipulating data. That means you only show others the information in favor of your opinion.
2.        Yes, it may be inappropriate to compare a city to a nation. In fact it is not appropriate to compare different nations due to social and economical differences. That’s why I say I am not a fan of IQs studies.
3.        Your explanation of the reasons why Hong Kong’s high IQ score is full of double standard. I won’t elaborate here. Please refer to your own argument of the importance of gene and education in post no. 1 and post no.11.
4.        The only person who knows the IQ data about different regions of China here is you. You can say anything about that. But, I have to stress that this is of little relevance if any. You have also forgotten to tell us the IQ score of your birthplace. Maybe it is over 200.
5.        If you read the web site carefully, you will find the data of N. Korea is estimated to be the same as that of S. Korea since no data can be found for N. Korea. This shows your………….
6.        In biology, hybrid is not known to have a survival advantage. Some may even result in stillbirth, sterility and other defects.
7.        ‘"Your idea of learning English to find a mate with better genes to produce offspring with you makes me feel you will really act this way!" is it of much ur concern how i would act? or r u trying to say u did just the opposite? be that the case, good for u to have made such a sacrifice for humanity. Waste of resources can be cut short’ My answer: I haven’t thought about it when I fell in love with my wife. Love should not be so calculative. That’s why we laughed to death when we read your statement. Do you understand now? I feel pity for your wife.
8.        Statement A: Ignorance in ‘common sense’ in a certain field, e.g. psychology, biology.  Statement B: This person is a 門外漢. If statement A is true than statement B is true. However, if statement A is false (not ignorance in ‘common sense’ in certain field, e.g. psychology, biology) does not indicate statement B is false (this person is not a 門外漢). Simple logic, my son also knows that.
9.        ‘Bergman’s rule: Mammals’ body size tends to be greater in populations that live in cooler climates because a smaller surface area to mass ratio allows for better heat retention.” -- another good example of an energy efficient adaptation, which is why we aspire to be tall instead of short.

whats the point of energy efficiency? -- so u can save energy for something else, for example, to support a higher level of mental functioning such as becoming more empathetic, more insightful and more sophisticated. ’ No. Energy efficiency was needed because finding food was difficult in the old days. We are homoeothermic. It is important for survival, a matter of life and death. Tall people are not energy efficient unless they are fat. Please consider the surface area to volume ratio.
10.       ‘Genetic make up is more important than education.’ Yes, if we are pre-historic human. ‘gene respresents the survival wisdom crystalized from the accumulated exposures our ancestors had over the course of evolution(which is of billions of years)’ However, after civilization started, a much much more efficient means of passing survival wisdom to the descendants was invented ------ writing. Our ancestors past their wisdom and inventions by writing to the later generations, and they got it by education. There is no need to go through the inefficient, random occurring and uncontrollable mutation. Education is getting more and more important and efficient nowadays due to invention of Internet. In fact Human evolution practically stopped for the last 10000 years as mentioned by Dr. Satoshi Kanazawa the writer of your bible ‘IQ vs Attractiveness study’. http://bigthink.com/ideas/19486
11.        Concept of esthetic changes with time. In Tang Dynasty, fat woman was considered as beauty, but now most ladies want to be slim. About 2 decades ago, people liked tanned skin since it look healthier, but now most ladies like to become whiter and use whitening products. Thick lips are considered as a sexy sign now. Please have a good look at Angelina Jolie, she is considered as one of the most beautiful actress now. 舒琪 is another example. Many ladies want to have their lips thicken by plastic surgery nowadays. Believe it or not, most people favor a more full lower facial profile since there will be fewer skin wrinkles and look younger. In short, esthetic standard changes but genetic make up is very stable.


As I said I agree with uncleedward’s idea ‘I do think everyone is allowed his/her own biases no matter how weird or how wicked they may seem.’ as long as he/she doesn’t act like he/she has concrete evidence and you have admitted (willingly or unwillingly) that your opinion is largely based on your own intuition only, I will leave you in peace. You can continue with your ‘nonsensical mumblings’. My intuition also tells me that a different opinion is not welcome here. But I will continue to pray for that you will not be a policymaker.

It is a pity that a very meaningful discussion topic had been lead to a very wrong direction.

Finally, let me say a Cantonese statement again: 跌落地挪番揸沙. I may refer to anyone here, including you and me. As you say:歡迎對號入座.

Bye,

A not so friendly friendlyguy

cow

原帖由 friendlyguy 於 11-2-13 23:38 發表
My intuition tells me I am not welcome here. Holding a different opinion is considered to be an unfriendly act.

In my point of view, your intuition is not right.

It is a pity that a very meaningful discussion topic had been lead to a very wrong direction.

Agree. Although the discussions are informative, most of them are irrelevant to the topic, which makes the discussions not meaningful.

annie40

Hi Friendlyguy,

I'm one of your fans.  请继续努力, 加油!

annie

wicked

u shouldnt have accredited this thread by reading it thus far be it so unbelievable. its wise to follow ur intuition and devote urself to what u believe.  what is intuitively right, there is good reasoning behind it. reasoning is the servant to intuition as by einstein’s word. but then i doubt intuition can be easily rationalized given its ambiguous nature. i didnt take intuition as my escape from science. i merely pointed out science, given its foundation on linear logic and reasoning, has its limit in explaining the world. one of the key elements in my discusion is aesthetics. ask any scientist if beauty and kindness can be explained by science so far.  

is there a convoluted intention to jam me with instinct rather than intuition?  i only mentioned instinct-like a couple times in the NBA player’s case. if u have a point to make, treat ur point with honour rather than acting like a rat in this case. dont tell me u assume the two words are the same after philosophizing whats the opposite end of intuition.

again, i m no expert in philosophy, but there is a difference between instint and intuition. here is the best of the few i came across on the net:

These two words are used interchangeably in most contexts. For example, I can say, "My instinct is not to trust any politician". I can also say, "My intuition tells me not to trust any politician". Careful users of the language try and make a distinction between the two. They argue that an "instinct" is something that we are born with; it is something that we do naturally without thinking. An instinct is a reaction. An animal, as soon as it is born, instinctively gets up, walks to its mother, and drinks milk. There is no thinking involved here; it is something that the animal has been programmed to do. It seems as if it is automatic. When you don't really have much time to think and react to a particular situation you are responding "instinctively". When a bowler bowls a bouncer at you, you react "instinctively" rather than "intuitively".
The word "intuition", like the word "instinct" does not carry with it a sense of "reasoning", it does, however, suggest or convey the idea that some amount of knowledge and awareness is involved. From experience a teacher intuitively knows when his students understand him and when they don't. After hitting a fast bowler for three fours in a row, you intuitively know that the next ball, or the one after that, is likely to be a bouncer. "Intuition" is based on experience. An instinct is something you are born with, and as you grow into an adult, sometimes you lose some of those instincts. Some people argue that a child is not born with intuition, he gains it through experience.

wicked

friendly guy and others

will come back to u later on. good to notice u resort to intuition so often now, yet proven wrong right away by a 3rd party. perhaps we can see it as the ambiguous nature of intuition?

wicked

for an unbelievable discussion, i would hardly spare any attention nor make a comment about the quality of the argument, let alone to insult others intelligence as if they needed my guidance on the worth of their attention or their sense of judgement.

i care the least if u have read thru this thread but if u hadnt, how would u have arrived to the opinion of “giving weak and inconsistent arguments. When confronted with fact and science, he resorted to instincts or intuition.” and that my argument is based on instinct?  by taking words out of context or by ur gut feeling? i bet u must have a lot.

by ur words: how to expect a meaningful discussion based on an argument from ur gut? shall i use that to discredit ur opinion as a demonstration of my reasoning not gut feeling?

i think i have a good enough understanding of intuition vs instinct to appreciate the need for a lecture on gut feeling under the understanding that such a lengthy lecture has nothing to do with any convoluted intention. but as a return to ur well-reasoned lecture, here is my analysis based on your highly regarded reasoning: the point of ur lecture is instinct, intuition and gut feeling are the same as far as this discussion goes, which is why they can be used interchangeably, and an argument from the gut doesnt deserve the service of the reasoning brain for a meaningful discussion. this is quite the opposite to einstein’s opinion in percieving the world. i m not interested in how u two have arrived on the opposite end of perception. before i go on, here is wiki’s quote about einstein:  beyond his exellence in science, Einstein also wrote about various philosophical and political subjects such as socialism, international relations and the existence of God. His great intelligence and originality have made the word "Einstein" synonymous with genius and he is coined as the man of the last century. might there be any possibility that u could be a super-genius or the woman of this century if ur perception surpasses his? be that the case, my honour to have been in this conversation with u. albeit that, as a respect for ur superb perception and the consideration that both our arguements are inflatedd with much gut feeling which surely doesnt deserve the service of ur superb brain, the abandonment of ur attention in the developement of this thread will be duly and understandably expected. apparently this expectation by reasoning is in line with ur gut feeling. how interesting.

as said many times, i have high respect for and good faith in my gut feeling and would always try to honour it with good reasoning. i care the least if the discussion here is unbeleivable or meaningful for ur gut feeling but i m tempted to know, would u also honour ur gut feeling as i do or would u simply admit that ur gut feeling is lousy which might explain its undeserving of respect from ur reasoning brain?

wicked

there might be readers questioning why the fuss here about intuition vs reasoning. my regard for intuition seems to have become a key target for bombardment by those who disagree with my opinions. however, i m delighted with the help(albeit unwittingly) from the respondents here which has allowed me the oppotunity to make a case to illustrate how my regard for intuition comes about.

intuition is ambiguous by nature which is why one thinks i dont welcome different opinions here while the other thinks the opposite. its also becoz of such ambiguity intuition is considered difficult to be reasoned. intuition influences our sense of direction in decision making. those blessed with good intuition will be more likely to embark on the right track than those with lousy intuition who often either get trapped in pointless details or head into the wrong direction and thus rendering an utter waste of energy or even invite humiliation.   

i think intelligence is also ambigous given its multi-dimensional nature. the current IQ measurement is mainly based on linear logic and reasoning, which maybe why the controversy over its representation as intelligence. also becoz of IQ test, intelligence is probably even being equated with logic and reasoning in some context. sense of honour concerns a higher level of intelligence or wisdom which can help carry us a long way yet its hardly within the scope of logic and reasoning. an under developed sense of honour could easily lead one to a lower moral ground regardless of one's reasoning power.

wicked

friendly guy

good to see u take on my high regard for intuition.  

repeat:i welcome different opinions. but i m really not keen on repeating simply becoz of the incompetence of a couple petty and narrow mindsets. given the choice, i much prefer someone like Uncleedward. at the very least, his opinions offer a different perspective and shed new light into the conversation, and i improve from the experience; whereas with ppl like u, who seems to arm with a heavy load of hard facts and jargons, yet i find myself often either repeating myself relentlessly or bickering on trivial non-sense or pointing out obvious mistakes to the point of belittling u. to belittle a stranger is pointless and does myself more damage than favour.

but one thing i should thank u though is that u have more than once unwittingly provided evidence for my argument. and i do appreciate ur effort in engaging in the conversation.

did u actually read dr kanazawa’s link? taking words out of context to back up an argument could more often do the opposite.  question: has man’s evolution stopped? dr kanazawa’s answer: It depends on how you define evolution. If you define evolution as frequency of genes then no, the gene frequencies tend to change over time all the time, but if you’re talking about IMPORTANT PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAITS then yes, probably the human evolution, directional human evolution towards certain psychological mechanisms probably stopped about 10,000 years ago”. 10,000 years of no change  in major psychological traits is hardly surprising if to consider the time line of mans evolution history(>200,000yrs ago from ancient modern man as by uncle’s previous quote?) but thats not the point. what has been my focus thru out this discussion? gene or major psychological traits? man never stops evolving as long as our enviroment is changing.  as one taoism saying goes: the only thing thats constant about the universe is changing itself.
  
of course i would prefer data in favour of my opinions. shouldnt that of basic logic?  i was in favour of the map becoz my point was to highlight the global patter not the exact figure of each country and the presentation in the form of a map is far more straightforward and indicative of such a pattern. if u google IQ by country, ur link comes up in the top. however skillful i m, i cant cover that up can i? how did i manipulate the data? hk as a city but being compared as a nation is an obvious flaw but u didnt point it out, i assume its not bcoz u prefer data in favour of ur opinion but merely bcoz u failed to notice it despite all that much obsession with statistical details and high scientific standard. am i right again, u always miss the important point.

i have been clear enough about gene and exposure: gene matters more than exposure in ones achievement. IQ test is mainly based on logic and reasoning(correct me if i m wrong since i m no expert), which can be  trained up by education and drills.  its said that IQ score can be trained up to 30 points by exposure. my question is if “such trained up IQ” would factor as much in ones achievement as the more innate IQ as attributed by gene.  i will try to simplify my point using a simplified case: if both a city person and a peasant score 100 in IQ test, assuming the city person’s genetic share of the score is 90 and exposure attributes 10, whereas the peasant’s split is 95 genetic and 5 exposure. if both are then put thru the same exposure for achievememt, i would expect the peasant more likely to learn better and outdo the city person.

once access to internet becomes a basic human right as clean water, the survival game will favour genetic advantage even more than exposure becoz those with genetic advantage(eg allowing a better sense of intuition) will be able to make more efficient use of the internet tool.