交小一入學伸請表估唔到有咁多新移民

猴子爸

Please don't avoid my question.  If you knew that the school your child was going to attend had a majority of students coming from low-income low- education mainland immigrant family, would you still be happily sending your child to that school?

原帖由 gingerale 於 09-9-29 09:45 發表
Sorry, but we never bother to check the background of the parents in a school before applying for our children.  We only look at the curriculum and the secondary school placement record.  
In fact, I  ...

[ 本帖最後由 猴子爸 於 09-9-29 10:22 編輯 ]

猴子爸

Before you provide your answer, I can give you mine.

If there is a system to make sure that the parents from such family are also responsible and able to provide good training to and take good care of their kids, I am sure their kids can also be good students and I will have no problem with it.  As long as the school itself is well run, it will be fine.

But the problem is that in reality we all know clearly that there is an extremely high likelihood that the kids from such family are not able to receive good training and care.  Then, how would you expect that most of these kids can perform well? without good peers, nowadays, it would be very easy for children to get adversely influenced.

Would I like to expose my son to this risk? The answer is no.

原帖由 猴子爸 於 09-9-29 10:15 發表
Please don't avoid my question.  If you knew that the school your child was going to attend had a majority of students coming from low-income low- education mainland immigrant family, would you still  ...

[ 本帖最後由 猴子爸 於 09-9-29 10:40 編輯 ]

ziyi

You have the right to don't let your son with you say some people, but you can't not allow them to apply the school you like it.

Everyone have freedom to select the school for their child.

This is the rule of game, we must follow it, that you can apply the international school or some private school to avoiding them. Because they might be not sufficient financial support to apply those school.

But don't say some word to hurt the people, they not rich but this is not their wrong and THEY ARE NO CRIMINAL.

原帖由 猴子爸 於 09-9-29 10:37 發表
Before you provide your answer, I can give you mine.

If there is a system to make sure that the parents from such family are also responsible and able to provide good training to and take good care o ...

猴子爸

Please don't bend the fact and truth.

Who said that they should be banned from applying to the schools? As long as they can comply with the rules and regulations set by the government, of course they can.

I just hate the hypocrites who blame others being frustrated about the fact that the schools are likely to receive a lot more students from the family we discussed above while sending their kids to the middle class schools.

Are you one of them?

原帖由 ziyi 於 09-9-29 10:50 發表
You have the right to don't let your son with you say some people, but you can't not allow them to apply the school you like it.

Everyone have freedom to select the school for their child.

This is t ...

ziyi

The word give it back to you "PLEASE DON'T BEND THE FACT AND TRUTH"

My main point is they are not rich but the child is sinless, why they need to hear and see your words?

原帖由 猴子爸 於 09-9-29 10:58 發表
Please don't bend the fact and truth.

Who said that they should be banned from applying to the schools? As long as they can comply with the rules and regulations set by the government, of course they ...

gingerale

So this is your theory:

low income, low education background, new immgrant mainland family = poor training and bad caring for children = poor school performance = bad peer group

And it seems fair to assume that you also have a hidden theory suggesting that:

high income, high education background, hong kong family = good training and good caring for children = good school performance = good peer group

I am afraid your generalizations are not scientific at all.  Do you have any statistical data from the Education Bureau or university research studies to support your claims?  Unfortunately many people share your views and make a lot of unfair and biased comments all the time.  

To answer your question:

We don't see any reasons why we should be happy or not happy about sending our children to a school with a majority of students coming from low income/education mainland new immgrant families.  We look at the school curriculum, their philosophy, student performance, secondary school placement results, things that we can evaluate objectively.  

原帖由 猴子爸 於 09-9-29 10:37 發表
Before you provide your answer, I can give you mine.

If there is a system to make sure that the parents from such family are also responsible and able to provide good training to and take good care o ...

[ 本帖最後由 gingerale 於 09-9-29 11:22 編輯 ]

猴子爸

I believe you are getting lost in your arguments.

First, this is the communication between parents.  Why would "kids" suddenly be dragged into this conversation?

Second, I never said that the kids from such background are to be blamed.  If so, this is a sin.

Third, I'm talking about the reality here and the true schooling environment we are faced with.  We have our frustration and we don't want our kids to be studying at a schools with a lot of peers having minimal training and care from their family.

Finally, the author of this post might have described the situation in a relatively mean way.  If you were there, I am sure you would move forward to help them filling out the forms.  But my point is that I sort of understand where he/she is coming from and don't think he/she should deserve all the attacks from the hypocrites who blame others for one thing while doing the opposite.

原帖由 ziyi 於 09-9-29 11:12 發表
The word give it back to you "PLEASE DON'T BEND THE FACT AND TRUTH"

My main point is they are not rich but the child is sinless, why they need to hear and see your words?

猴子爸

You really missed the point.  In fact, I really doubt if you are a high calibre "professional".

I am talking about "likelihood", not "=".

Please re-read my message and re-do your argument.

原帖由 gingerale 於 09-9-29 11:17 發表
So this is your theory:

low income, low education background, new immgrant mainland family = poor training and bad caring for children = poor school performance = bad peer group

And it seems fair to ...

gingerale

In any social science study, you need to have supporting evidences to make claims like "extremely high likelihood", otherwise your arguments are simply empty without any solid substance, no matter how inspirational or stimulating they sound.  
In fact, what you described was not new and represented some generalized views expressed by many Hong Kong people who purposely "forgot" that they were also coming from families with similar background decades ago.  
We can't just simply label children from those families as having "an extremely high likelihood of getting poor training/care and performing poorly at school".    I don't see any reasons why those parents would be much less concerned about their kids' education than middle-class parents like you.  
From time to time, we hear true stories about successful students coming from poor families in Tin Siu Wai, Tuen Mun, etc.  
It will be very dangerous if your views are also shared by our next generation since there will be a lot of conflicts in the society.  They will also be very frustrated to find out that they are not any "superior" to the kids from those families in terms of academic performance and other kinds of achievement.  

原帖由 猴子爸 於 09-9-29 11:29 發表
You really missed the point.  In fact, I really doubt if you are a high calibre "professional".

I am talking about "likelihood", not "=".

Please re-read my message and re-do your argument.

[ 本帖最後由 gingerale 於 09-9-29 11:57 編輯 ]

ziyi

Do you clarify the between "WORD" and "MEANING"

You alway say you never say the "word", but you give to the people is that meaning

And you say the parent not answer your question, it also apply for you.

Maight be you think you are "BLUE BLOOD",  no matter what, the child or their parent, is sinless, even they pool, not completed the primary school, not skill, but why they need to take your criticism.

If my child class mates to speak "粗話", I also hate it and I also will complain it and not like their parents. But on this moments, did they do it?

In addition, most of "粗話" not only learn from the school and this kind of child, the major is learn from TV.

原帖由 猴子爸 於 09-9-29 11:26 發表
I believe you are getting lost in your arguments.

First, this is the communication between parents.  Why would "kids" suddenly be dragged into this conversation?

Second, I never said that the kids f ...

brian61950

一句講洒............

憎人富貴厭人貧

ziyi

MOST not 100%, and I agree some special is learn from parent.

像前幾天一段新聞,一個父親同人打交受傷,去醫院,他13歲兒子,一路3字經
是有這些人,我也不喜歡這些人
但不要一竹槓打死一船人
有錢有學識的不會說,我去外國,國內做事,認識的朋友第一樣教我就是"粗話",因為起碼要懂得別人在罵你
但懂得不代表要說
你我都懂,但怎樣教小朋友是另外一件事

Final, I'm middle class, and I can afford my child to private school or DSS, but I select them is school is more suitable for my child instead of the class mates
I teach my child is learn to love the people, understand other people not like her lucky, and she must donation to support them if she have.

原帖由 Reximom 於 09-9-29 12:54 發表


唔係嗎, TV個d說話有幾粗呀?
你緊係生活於中產或以上階層, 唔知民間疾苦,  this kind of child, the major is learn  from父母或其他屋企人就真, 有d小小年紀, 已經會講生殖器官形容詞, 呢D 形容詞TV邊到有得學呀 ...

cutekiddy

please think about the reasons that your son needs to compete with the maninland kids.  apart from the government policies, it is because :

you are not rich enough and therefore you are not affordable to send your son to the school just like Harrow ($300,000 school fee p.a.).

you are not well-educated enough to train up your kid's judgement.  he/she may know what's right & wrong if you teach them well.

you are not powerful enough to change the government policies.

why?  according to your logic, it may imply that your parent's education & financial background are just like the group you discriminated.

judy

原帖由 猴子爸 於 09-9-28 16:03 發表
看见楼主被人围殴，也替他难过。
将心比心，如果自己的儿子以后6年的同学，都是来自一些不大有文化学历的家庭，我也会担心。如果他所说的是来自国内的大商家，教授，没人会太介意，但如果是报纸经常报道有家庭问题那种，你们又如何呢 ...

有學歷也好，無學歷也好，大商家也好，小販也好，我不介意，最緊要唔好無教養。

猴子爸

我想总结一下gingerale和ziyi的观点。(cutekiddy讲的歪理，回应是浪费时间）
新移民有他们的权利，即使学校里越来越多学生是他们的孩子，我们都不应该因为这个缘故，觉得有什么不妥，或是学校就会因此质素被拖垮，因为这样想法是歧视。
我不知道你们现实生活中接触到多少这样的家庭?很明显，ziyi应该不多，因为他有本事可以让小孩读中产的直资私立学校。
现在大家在讨论的是孩子的教育，是孩子的朋辈影响。当然，我也没有办法说去具体数字，说明每十个新移民家庭，有多少个家庭是可以好好培养小孩，但以我所看到，所听到，很多官津学校都有这样的烦恼，特别是在某些区，情况会更严重。
为什么直资私小会那么宝贵他们可以自主收生?我可以大胆这样讲，他们不一定是找最有钱的，但却是找愿意投放时间资源在小孩身上的，在新移民家庭里，有多少可以做到?小孩子没人管没人教导的话，大部分会是怎样呢?
身为父母，有这个担心是可以理解的，并不是所有人都好像ziyi一样，可以负担直资私立学校的费用。

ziyi

孟母三遷,是因為那些地方的人行為不好,而不是因為他們窮或沒有學識,如果連成語真正要教的都不懂,就不要亂用

另外,孟子說的是人本善,為惡是後天

如果知道那間學校專出不良少年或學生唔好,ok,我一樣唔會比小朋友去讀

但不是因別人窮或沒有學識,就"Label".這才是常識

原帖由 Reximom 於 09-9-29 13:42 發表


MOST not 100%, and I agree some special is learn from parent.


你唔係嗎, 大多數小朋友都係learn from parents, 呢d基本育兒常識呢啦, 咁都要同人咬!

呢個世界緊係有好多exception架啦, 讀飽書但粗口爛舌緊 ...

ziyi

這樣說我同意,我也不是鼓勵送小朋友去一些校風不好的學校
對我現在有能力負擔小朋友教育,但不代表我無接觸或經歷
我可以對你說我自小經歷比你多
你試過穿鞋底有洞的上學嗎?你試過沒有錢要去做清潔交學費?

原帖由 猴子爸 於 09-9-29 14:22 發表
我想总结一下gingerale和ziyi的观点。(cutekiddy讲的歪理，回应是浪费时间）
新移民有他们的权利，即使学校里越来越多学生是他们的孩子，我们都不应该因为这个缘故，觉得有什么不妥，或是学校就会因此质素被拖垮，因为这样想法是歧 ...