ESF 英基資助

polyu4537

So, kindergarten and PIS 不算有資助.

ANChan59

If EDB really picked on ESF, how about LPCUWC?

Also lift the bar for DSS can provides higher percentage other curriculum like IB or GCE..... If ESF maintain the DSS status, it's unfair to other DSS schools to provide majority local curriculum.

polyu4537

yes, you are right !!!!!!!!!


http://www.lpcuwc.edu.hk/

Mighty

想用国教YUK下你地、点知就比一、両個青年百両BUK千斤「軽軽」送走、無MAAK野YUK,就不如YUK班中産LA,英基是港英余孼、共産狼硬下容不下LA,是否是時候英基家長或想入英基的、一斉上下街？？

siulumjing

I should have phrase it more clearly. What I meant in my previous post was that, I think existing students of ESF kindergartens should also get the subsidy should they move onto the ESF primary schools as the proposed discontinuation of the government grants were not in placed when the parents enrolled them into the kindergarten.  

Most parents, if not all, registered their kids to the ESF kindergartens so to have greater chance to continue their education in ESF primary schools. So I think the phasing out of the government subvention should extend for another 2 years, i.e., over the next 15 years instead of 13 years.

shadeslayer

原帖由 Mighty 於 12-11-02 發表
想用国教YUK下你地、点知就比一、両個青年百両BUK千斤「軽軽」送走、無MAAK野YUK,就不如YUK班中産LA,英基是 ...

What is so special about ESF that they should continue to enjoy subsidy without obligations? All other IS are private schools without subsidy. What role should ESF play going forward?

siulumjing

Just my personal opinion. I think ESF is popular not only because it is an IS with government subsidy, but because it's teaching method of encouraging kids to think independently, provide sufficient room for kids to explore and inquire but yet with good discipline. So for parents not opting for the hong kong style teaching method, it sure is one of the best option. Just my 2 cents...

shadeslayer

原帖由 siulumjing 於 12-11-03 發表
Just my personal opinion. I think ESF is popular not only because it is an IS with government subsid ...

Yes. But the same can be said to all other international schools. There is a historical reason for ESF to receive tax payer's money, I get that. But as the percentage of local students in ESF keeps rising, is there a reason for it to continue to receive money from tax payers.  

I am not saying we pull the funding now, i think we should review the reasons behind education subsidy in ESF and yet without any of the obligations DSS have to follow. How can we explain that to DSS and other international schools?  How can we explain that to tax payers?

ANChan59

回復 siulumjing 的帖子

So for parents not opting for the hong kong style teaching method, it sure is one of the best option.

*******


That's the original idea of DSS, isn't it?

siulumjing

I don't object the point of phasing out the subsidy because, yes, if we are to look at it from the governance perspective, and that it seemed the ESF objective of providing a secured schooling to those English government officials of the then colonial Hong Kong has slightly changed. What I'm saying is, at least for students of the existing ESF systems, be it from the primary schools, secondary schools AND kindergartens, the subsidy should cover them as the removal of the subsidy was not in placed when they registered.  

However, of course I also think there are sound reasons justifying ESF to continue receiving the grants. Hong Kong is now ranking almost the lowest amongst Asia, in terms of English standards of school aged children. Because ESF is not following the local systems, they are able to use their approach to produce very high standards in educating youngsters, who in future years, becomes part of the HK work force contributing to the community. Bear in mind a large population of the ESF students are HK residents and parents are tax payers. Infact a lot of the elite DSS schools have set their entrance requirements so high, or even so invisible, they are also taking advantage of the subsidy to meet the school's objective. I studied from one of these elite school when I was young, and definitely know there are students being admitted by connections. Now that ESF entry requirements are crystal clear, what's wrong with giving a better option for those parents with kids meeting  the requirements on alternative teaching methods? I'm not saying their admission criteria is without flaws, perhaps they can add another requirements of proofing kids enrolling whose parent(s) are tax payers?

md23

siulumjing 發表於 12-11-3 14:11
I don't object the point of phasing out the subsidy because, yes, if we are to look at it from the g ...

Same can be said for other IBs, which all deserve government subsidy. HK should move to a voucher system where HK residents receives voucher and they can choose whichever school they want.

siulumjing

Hey I absolutely agree that they should have the voucher system in place for all eligible residents to be fair! But the thing is our government is not good on this kind of administration, they are going to spend lots on administering this, which is a real problem too!

FattyDaddy

md23 發表於 12-11-3 15:42
HK should move to a voucher system where HK residents receives voucher and they can choose whichever school they want ...

Yep, a voucher system would be a fair system, but it isn't going to fundamentally change the current state of affairs. 70% of ESF students ARE Hongkong residents, ESF is no longer a group of "colonial" schools full of ex-pats, so most of the subsidy money are ALREADY going to Hongkong residents. In any case, I bet a voucher system isn't going to shut some people up, those who have a bone to pick with ESF will just try to find another bone.

siulumjing

Can't agree more!

shadeslayer

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 12-11-03 發表
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-11-3 17:28 編輯

If we put aside our emotions and look at this objectively, it is so easy to see the colonial reasons do not apply 15 years after 97. All DSS have _100%_ HK students and they receive funding from the government, yet they all have to be bound by rules, eg, they all have to deliver HK DSE program.  

While all other IS are private schools enjoying complete freedom including not offering HKDSE program, but they don't get a dime from the tax payers.

Why should ESF be special and getting the best of both worlds: money and complete freedom?  

I have nothing against ESF. They are good schools and I have friends with kids studying in ESF. It is just that at some point this special status has to stop. 15 years is a long time.

If the subvention is lifted, There will still be long waiting lists for ESF.   So why don't we do it?

sschiu

I personally appreciate very much the non-selective admissions policy of ESF (because it is subsidised), unlike other international, private and DSS schools. It follows strictly the mission to provide English medium education to those who should benefit from it. Just for this I think ESF deserves to receive the government subsidy rather than some elite DSS schools that have made quality education even more unreachable for many people!

alpham0m

We all have our personal believes, just like there is a majority out there who don't believe in national education, there are parents like me who are terrified by the local education system which evaluates the ability of your child based on exams.

Parents are voting for ESF schools by sending their kids there, some even choose to sacrifice the opportunity for their kids to learn the mother tongue as the last resort. Why? Because they believe in the way of teaching in ESF and it is the only affordable option for many middle class/lower middle class families who are so desperate to give their children a good education because they have no faith in the local system. My question is, why should we as tax payers be denied a more affordable and desirable option such as ESF? Why can't we tell these law makers who we sent into Legco by our votes and tax money that we deserve this option?  

I personally don't see ESF enjoys a "special status", but as an option of hope for parents who completely lose faith in the local system where everything is about excelling the exam rather than the enjoyment of learning. By the time those kids finish primary school, they have completely lost interests in learning/school because it is such a grueling experience.

I believe it is time for a change, but by the look of it, it is a change for worse, not better. Very sad, really.

sschiu

I remember the ESF subvention was debated at legco last year by the law makers we voted with EDB (at that time Kenneth Chan) and most of our honourable legislators criticised EDB's arguments to phase out the subsidies. But what happens now?

shadeslayer

What if someone also terrified by the local system and If they can only afford 5k a month not the ESF's 8k? What can the government and law makers do?  Add subsidy to ESF so they can be cheaper?  Do the government and tax payers obliged to help those who can afford only 5k?  What about those who can only afford 1k?  Do we need to eventually turn half of local schools to ESF schools?

Some reasons for ESF are valid. But it is not about giving valid reasons. It is about fairness. If you say non selective admission is good enough reason for the subsidy, the same rule has to be applied to every school in HK, not just ESF.

ESF get the money and no rules. If this is not favoritism and special status, what is?

Mighty

shadeslayer 發表於 12-11-3 13:20
If we put aside our emotions and look at this objectively, it is so easy to see the colonial reasons ...

"All DSS have _100%_ HK students ", Shadeslayer, your saying is simply not ture.  Pui Kiu in Tai Wai has Japanese and Wong Kam Fai in Ma On Shan has mixed nationality students as well.  And do you think international schools in Hong Kong are getting their land at a true market rate?  Find out and go figure.  ESF is one of the good things that our old colonial govt left us so please leave us alone.