ESF schools Futher $$$$

nintendo

每個地方都有各樣唔同的政策，好難話邊度點做就要跟。
其實另一方面，有 d 國家，甚至外國人去讀大學，都有資助，但又未必有人會去讀。
有人話 esf 得到太多 "優待"，其實 esf  就因為要開源，正正就已經加入 capital levy 和 nomination rights 等 "收錢" 方案，結果係點？一樣有人話唔公度。
呢個亦係我話，有 d 人根本就係覺得自己享用唔都 "著數" 就嘈。
成日話要公平，其實每個 esf 學生的資助，其他本地學校學生都享用緊，本地資助學校學費全免，肯讀就有位。不過當然唔一定你想入邊間就邊間，部份名校 (資助)，入學門檻亦各有不同。好多人覺得小一派位計分方法不公平，每年總有人因為仔女入唔到瑪xx 和喇 x 等就鬧。
講真，要公平，不如大家再舊事重提，大力推動爭取 " 學券制" 啦。當年 "業界"  (老師學校)  大力反對，結果不了了之，其實家長要求好簡單，錢隨學生走，我去邊度讀，邊錢就去邊度。

nintendo

FattyDaddy 發表於 12-10-15 18:48
Certain misconceptions need to be addressed, such as the belief that ESF students are mostly rich e ...

你覺得佢地會因為你幾個 message 就唔鬧？
我自己個人就覺得，佢地係誤解又好，針對又好，都係算把啦。

Shootastar

回復 flashingcat 的帖子

Yes, expatriate's children should enjoy the free education provided to HK people on local education system - like other local children do  - because they pay tax.

However, subsiding a elite international school which mainly target expatriate children is another matter. Why should the expatriate children have the higher priviliege than local children? Disregarding the direct subsidies for a moment, the HK government has already subsided ESF consistently for the large and grand school premises. Few local schools can be compared with ESF in this regard. Why other International schools in Hong Kong have no subsidies from the government but ESF should have? Is it fair.

If ESF adopts a policy which is fair to the applicants, I have no objection that the subsidy granted per student should be the same as the local schools.

Shootastar

回復 flashingcat 的帖子

The major countries you referred to charge income tax from 25% to 40%. Expatriates in those countries have contributed a lot.

In Hong Kong we charge only 15% (maximum) on income tax.

I am not opposing the grant to ESF so long as it goes to local students who study there. If ESF wants to have across the board subsidy from the Government, ESF should change its discriminatory admission policy against the local children.

Shootastar

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

I agree to provide equal subsidy to ESF as the to local schools so long as it abandons its discriminatory admission policy against the local children.

Although ESF may have more than half of the local children, it would admit an expatriate's children first. It would admit local students only if there are no expatriate children (or some returning HK people after immigration) in the queue.

For local people, they charge the nomination right if you want some priority in getting an interview. Do they charge expatriate children - say, an English or American expatriate who intend to bring their children here?

Although they say they will, the reality is that those expatriate children have already had the priority and they would not pay. Again it is fair to the local children that we should give grant to those expatriate children?

Shootastar

回復 nintendo 的帖子

"其實家長要求好簡單，錢隨學生走，我去邊度讀，邊錢就去邊度".

This is a good solution to the arguments over the subsidy to ESF.

nintendo

Shootastar 發表於 12-10-16 10:15
"其實家長要求好簡單，錢隨學生走，我去邊度讀，邊錢就去邊度".

This is a good solution to the arguments over the subsidy to ESF.

咁你地去問下d 尊貴的議員囉。
當年學券制反對得最勁係邊 d 人？
講到尾，邊有人真心為教育，都係為厄飯食。
唔係有 d 咁既人，都唔會有咁多逃兵啦，你估有免費學校唔讀，比咁多人讀 esf  真係同 d 錢鬥氣？

FattyDaddy

Shootastar 發表於 12-10-16 10:13
回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

Although ESF may have more than half of the local children, it would admit an expatriate's children first ...

For local people, they charge the nomination right if you want some priority in getting an interview. Do they charge expatriate children ...

OK, 2 things ...

(1) There are rumours that ESF does give a slight preference to children who possess foreign citizenship, but they are just what they are, rumours, there is no material evidence to suggest that given two applicants with similar qualities they would admit the ex-pat child first. At the end of the day, the fact remains that the majority of ESF students are local children, so why ignore this fact and go picking on rumours? Have Hongkongers become so uptight that they get upset by even a minority of ex-pat children enjoying some benefits? Remember their parents pay Hongkong taxes too.

(2) Anyone, ex-pat or otherwise, who wants to jump the queue have to pay $500,000 for the Nomination Right.

FattyDaddy

nintendo 發表於 12-10-16 09:35
你覺得佢地會因為你幾個 message 就唔鬧？
我自己個人就覺得，佢地係誤解又好，針對又好，都係算把啦。

Well, my messages weren't written just for them but for everyone to see.

A few messages won't change those who are already biased or have a bone to pick, but impartial people can still benefit from knowing the facts. If they don't see the facts they might even believe some of the junk which Mingpao was trying to tout (e.g. ESF charges "ultra-high" tuition fees).

Shootastar

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

"(1) There are rumours that ESF does give a slight preference to children who possess foreign citizenship, but they are just what they are, rumours, there is no material evidence to suggest that given two applicants with similar qualities they would admit the ex-pat child first."

I think what I observed are not rumors. There are discriminatory admission policy published by ESF.  I would refer you to --- "Children who speak English as a first or alternative language but do not speak Cantonese and/or read and write Chinese characters" Group One (after the first three categories, namely, childrend of the ESF staff, sibilings of existing ESF children and Nomination Right by paying $400,000 or $500,000".

I cannot find one local children who cannot speak Cantonese or write simple Chinese characters. The net result is that if you are an expatriate children, you will have priority to local children. The ESF adeptly uses this policy to discrimate the local children yet the local parents do not know.

I have no intention to hurt the reputation of ESF. I am only speaking the facts. I have to declare my interest that my kids have not not studied or applied for admission to ESF.

Shootastar

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

"(2) Anyone, ex-pat or otherwise, who wants to jump the queue have to pay $500,000 for the Nomination Right.

If the expatriate knows that he has the priority over the local children, why should he bother to
pay the $500,000 Nomination Right?

I should state my position that I have no objection and feel that equal grant should be made available to local students study at ESF, but not indiscrimiately to the whole ESF who adopts a discriminatory admission policy against the local students.

Regarding other international schools, they also adopt discriminatory admission policy against local people but they do not receive grants from the government (save for the land) and their purpose of setting up the international school is to serve its own citizen.

FattyDaddy

Shootastar 發表於 12-10-16 12:23
回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

"Children who speak English as a first or alternative language but do not speak Cantonese and/or read and write Chinese characters" ...

Does this mean "ex-pat" to you?

Any local Hongkonger can choose not to learn how to speak Cantonese or read/write Chinese characters if they so wish. You may not agree to their choice but it doesn't make them "ex-pat".

Shootastar

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

Yes you are absolutely correct. That is why I said that ESF is making use of this rule to discriminate local children because it is very rare that local children could not speak Cantonese (truly local people) or write simple chinese (if they speak Mandarin).

annie40

回復 nintendo 的帖子

very agreed.  物竞天择, 要公平是mission impossible 啊!  要骂要改, 争取进入权力核心吧! 入了权力核心,出面有大把人骂您不公平了. Think it in other person's shoes!  

FattyDaddy

Shootastar 發表於 12-10-16 13:28
回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

discriminate local children because it is very rare that local children could not speak Cantonese (truly local people) ...

What is "truly local people"? Are ethnic Chinese children born in Hongkong but don't speak Cantonese and read/write Chinese characters "not truly local people"? Should we stop giving benefits to these not truly local people?

If a local Hongkonger fails to or choose not to learn Cantonese and read/write Chinese then he/she becomes "not truly local" and so should have some of his/her entitled benefits taken away?

You are really drifting into murky and dangerous waters now.

112200

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

I have objection IF govt subsidise HK local children on studying in international school. But should coverage all Internation schools in HK, but not just ESF.


For those expat, no matter they choose to study HK local school or Internation school, they should not get any benefit fro HK govt, They need to pay higher than  HK local children, no matter in HK local school, DSSS school or ESF group schools.

112200

回復 flashingcat 的帖子

No, Expat no ned to pay tax to HK Govt, becasue they suppose pay to their home country instead, unless there is some spcial case like they are urning to a HK resident.   

Shootastar

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

"What is "truly local people"? Are ethnic Chinese children born in Hongkong but don't speak Cantonese and read/write Chinese characters "not truly local people"? Should we stop giving benefits to these not truly local people?"

My answer: Yes, they are local kids no doubt. They should receive subsidy (which I have always advocates and agreed). However, to be realistic, there are very little of local kids who are born in Hong Kong but do not speak Cantonese or write simple Chinese characters. Of course, there are exceptions such as one of their parents are foreigner buy such number should be not much (Eurasians). You know more than me the number if your kids study in ESF. What I said is ESF is making use of this rule to discriminate the large number of local kids who speak Cantonese and/or write simple Chinese characters.

"If a local Hongkonger fails to or choose not to learn Cantonese and read/write Chinese then he/she becomes "not truly local" and so should have some of his/her entitled benefits taken away?"

My answer: I think the number of students born to Cantonese speaking parents who choose not to speak Cantonese at home and/or choose not to learn writing Chinese characters should be very small. If they are Hong Kong permanent resident, I see no reason why they receive no subsidy. However if the ESF admission policy is viewed objectively, it is used to discriminate local kids who speak and/or write Chinese. It is a favor in disguise to the non-Cantonese and non- Chinese writing kids, i.e. to foreigners.

You are really drifting into murky and dangerous waters now.

My answser: Are you saying that the dropping of the discriminatory admission policy by ESF should be deprecated? ESF is creating murky water to blur the local people. I am just to expose its discrimnatory policy out of the murky (but not dangerous) waters.

annie40

It's not true.  All expatriants working in HK companies would need to pay tax to HKSAR.  I paid it for a guilo employee from New Zealand long ago.

Of course, some expatriants are employed by overseas companies that their income taxes should pay to home countries.

就算鬼老没有交香港税, 依然对香港繁荣经济有功劳, 不一定没资格读ESF的. 如果再要计清计清楚, 父母非常有本事, 交多点税, 他们的孩子应否申请书时同时交税单, 不用interview, 就可以直入ESF.

flashingcat

no, u are wrong.  we are US citizen but need to pay for both hk tax and US federal tax! that's for sure!  and Japanese friends around are also paying HK tax.