英基學童踢波變踢人

kcvtsai

This is pretty bad...

nintendo

bobbycheung 發表於 12-3-13 11:51
回復 Mighty 的帖子

....英基教育服務營運總監Ann Pearce昨證實，涉事球員來自旗下的U12 ESF Lions隊....

esf lions，就係 esf   的學生。

bobbycheung

回復 annie40 的帖子

Annie,

You very very rarely see a player deliberately kicking someone's face in a football match.  It's extremely serious.  If that ESF boy had been over 14, he might have committed a criminal offence.  As he is under 12, his position might be slightly better.  See this  http://www.hkreform.gov.hk/en/publications/rage.htm

There are really 2 issues here:-
(1)  The ESF boy deliberately kicking someone's face.
(2)  How were the ESF boys coached to play this game to start with?

Knowing the background of this game is important.  The uploader of the youtube 短片 said that Kitchee beat ESF 16-0 in a football match a month ago.  ESF however said in his newsletter that they won Kitchee 3-2.  Subsequently, ESF admitted the mistake and apologized.  The 2 teams met again, but this time ESF had a new coach and new players.  Unfortunately, ESF was still losing 4-0 in the first half of this game.   I can't imagine the ESF boys and coach were happy about all these.   Now the rules of that match were that the referee had no power to give out yellow cards or send any players off.   The ESF coach probably knew this and the fact that he is the only one who could restrain his players from playing rough and making the bad fouls.  Unless he put a stop to it, no one else could.  My questions are:-
(1) Why the coach did nothing after seeing his players making all those bad fouls?  He should at least talk to his players and ask them to calm down.
(2) More importantly, were the ESF boys coached to play rough and agressively in that game to start with?  If so, by whom?

My boy is not a Kitchee player.  It's just that I feel there might be something wrong with the way the ESF boys were coached to play this game and we must find out why.

Bobby

tingtingting

bobbycheung 發表於 12-3-13 14:38
回復 annie40 的帖子
(1) Why the coach did nothing after seeing his players making all those bad fouls?  He should at least talk to his players and ask them to calm down.

Exactly.  This is how I understand it as a football mom.  The coach should have taken the kid off the pitch after the first foul.  Heard that the other kid got few broken teeth and a fracture.  Poor boy.

nintendo

應該係 "魔鬼教練"  搞到一個的小球員 "成魔"。
本來 sports 對男孩子的成長係好正面，但如果有一個用 "非常手法" 訓練球員的教練，咁後果就會好嚴重。外國好多呢類 "魔鬼教練"，希望 esf 快 d 炒佢，唔好再誤人子弟。

cowmoon

nintendo 發表於 12-3-13 14:57
應該係 "魔鬼教練"  搞到一個的小球員 "成魔"。
本來 sports 對男孩子的成長係好正面，但如果有一個用 "非 ...

同意，所以我認為不可以因為係小朋友的比賽而不追究，否則根本就是在助長這些風氣。那一位粗野的小朋友現在不用付上後果，還被加以保護，咁到左 20歲呢？係咪最好等佢變成第 2 代魔鬼教練呢？咁樣係保護佢定係害緊佢呢？佢現在比人 label 左成為 ESF 之恥，其實佢都係好慘的。

annie40

回復 cowmoon 的帖子

大家热切讨论, 在此也作少许分享:

孩子世界有打架, 有bully是常有之事, 是成长的部分, 如果可行, 尽量让孩子去解决, 或由有关主办者作裁决. 裁决不公, 我们可選择报警, 去ICAC, 去平机会, 去教育当局投诉, 如性命攸关. 那就及早带孩子离场.

小女自小在运动场长大, 见尽家长和教练的光怪陆离, 家长们爱子心切, 忘记仪态, 行为是不可理予的. 例如:

a) 九岁孩子打 ice hocky, 自己那队已经赢二十比0, 阿妈仲要大大声喊叫: 数佢地蛋, 赢尽, 唔好放过佢地.  (母性尽失?)
b) 港队挑選落選, 不停地指责有黑幕, 黑箱作业. 最后我提议既然大家讲得甘真, 甘激动, 不如去ICAC, 啊! 即刻收声!
c) 打篮球输波, 教练傻左, 系甘用粗口骂学生, 激动处还回身击打牆壁,彭彭声, 吓死细路仔.
d) 警师爸爸的女儿打输 judo, 阿爸唔肯走, 系都要人家重赛, 当然要附加粗口和中指来加强语气.

总之事例太多, 不能尽录, 如放上youtube, 又是一番公论. 如非必要, 今天我甚少往运动场看女儿作赛了!

我不是想淡化孩子的粗暴行为, 这么多人看过短片, 羞愧够了. 只希望唤醒家长们更理性的看待竞赛: 谨记: 友谊第一, 胜负第二. 要争, 去奥运会.

beeman18

What a shame!

annie40

回復 bobbycheung 的帖子

谢谢分享事件的来龙去脉. 值得深思!  

cowmoon

回復 annie40 的帖子

Annie40

我也有少少估計，有機會是現場的家長不停在喝倒彩，好乞人憎的，弄得那個 ESF 小朋友沉不住氣，結果使出暴力行為。
我也同意 bullying 是總會發生的。不過，我自己也是家長，我會教我的子女怎樣自己去應付別人的 bullying，但如果是我自己子女去 bully 別人，我一定會去教訓自己的子女。養不教，父之過。我覺得這是做家長的基本責任，但我今天，見到的只是律人嚴而己寬，好多家長見到自己的子女欺侮別人，就一句“小孩子的事小孩子解決”，如果倒轉頭呢，當然就“癲哂"。
所以我覺得果個 ESF 小孩做出的暴力行為，他的家長和教練一定要負上 90% 的責任，他們應該有適當的教導。教練沒有及時制止暴力發生，卻第一時間出來和對方的家長推撞，這是什麼道理！
另外，也有程度之分的，踢人個頭怎樣都不算“可以自己解決的bully"吧，而是嚴重的暴力行為！

cowmoon

如果不見 ESF 的嚴肅處理（尤其處理那一位魔鬼教練），身為父母的，一定不會讓子女和 ESF 的球隊玩（還聞這一次只是不太認真的”友誼“賽），尤其讀本地名校的孩子，平常環境太單一了，真的招架不了這一等級的 bully，就好像是你那一句，及早離場。
咁係咪好事呢？

carina_h

international school student 的品行、道德觀和價值觀係唔係真係會差啲 ??

CSJ安樂窩

carina_h 發表於 12-3-13 19:40
international school student 的品行、道德觀和價值觀係唔係真係會差啲 ??

I am really amaze to see how many people see this 'one particular child' representing all students of ESF or even all international school student.  Haha, maybe it's good in a sense that some parents will stay away from IS and make the competition for a place easier.  Don't get me wrong, I do think ESF should look at this incident seriously but people should not generalize it

bobbycheung

回復 carina_h 的帖子

I believe it has got nothing to do with whether the players are from international schools or local schools, or whether they are from ESF or other schools.  Teams such as Hong Kong Football Club, Tai Tam Tigers, Brazilian Soccer Schools and a dozen more all have a lot of players from various international schools.  They don't have this problem.  Yes, 鬼仔's player style is in general more "aggressive" than 中國人.  But there is still a big big difference between being "physical" and committing ugly fouls like those we saw.  To be honest, I would be surprised if the coach or anybody had incited the ESF kids to kick somebody's face in.  But whether these boys had been drummed into an idea that they were out for revenge is another matter.  Did anybody say to them before the match that they have to win this match at all costs?  Did someone tell them that they had to go in hard and get the ball with the greatest force possible?  If the ESF kids had this mindset to start with, the whole situation could easily spin out of control (especially when they're still losing 4-0 and the coach endorsed or at least said nothing about their fouls and action).   By the way, Kitchee beat ESF 16-0 in the first game.  Surely such a score is hard to forget.  But why did ESL still get it wrong in his newsletter by saying they beat Kitchee 3-2?  Could it be that someone was under pressure to do well?  If yes, then it's even harder to swallow when one had to correct this mistake later.  Really, I think the coach has a lot of explaining to do.

cowmoon

回復 carina_h 的帖子

我也不認為可以就這樣 generalize。不過 International school 給予學生比較大的自由度，而且，學校的老師也是相當專業，用比較先進的方法去引導學生學習，而不只是去強加或吹谷。所以，international school 的老師不會非常嚴厲的去管學生的事情。在 local schools，可能家長比較 hands-off 也不會出大問題，因為學校什麼也管，學生在行為上的差異比較少。在 international schools，家長的角色其實是好重要，尤其是 moral values，家教是很重要的，因為“家家有本經”，學生間的差異可能比較大。
去年 London Riot，當時都有人研究英國年輕一代出了什麼問題？有一個說法，就是學校從來不是太管 moral 的地方，一向 moral education 都是在 church 進行，現在的年輕人不去 church 了，唯有靠家教，但家教靠得住嗎？

cowmoon

還有，我始終認為今次錯不在學校，而是那一個 coach.

11B

我唔明點解啲人話呢個小朋友當日嘅行為唔關學校事?以學校名義出賽,即係代表緊間學校,校風同品德教育有幾好睇啲學生就知。當然呢個小朋友嘅家長有更大嘅責任!

cowmoon

回復 11B 的帖子

我說今次不關學校事因為我估計這一隊 ESF soccer team 是屬於 ESL 的。所以隊員在比賽上的操首應由球會負責，與他在那一間學校上說沒有直接關係吧，例如學校校長不能過問教練怎樣教，這樣和本地學校的校隊有點不同呢。
我想作為家長讓孩子去學運動，尤其 soccer，都是想孩子學好 sportsmanship 和 teamwork，沒幾個期望子女未來向世界盃發展吧。所以才讓人這麼失望。

mrshoho

Sad to see what had happened, hope the one who was hurt physically gets well soon, and the kid who kicked the boy can really learn his lesson.