新高中課程 對持分者，有那些裨益 (#1藍色補充)

ANChan59

以前，考IB嘅人不多，其中多數為了留學。但宜家連DBS同SPCC都有了，以IB成績申請入本地大學嘅人越嚟越多。有趣的是，唔知係咪香港嘅大學「崇洋媚外」，以IB成績申請相對較易。你成日提住38分係 magical 分數 to get into a number of hot programs。(They are favour IB because of the teaching method similar to university and the final output has better performance. I discussed with ha89mo in another post, Cambridge did a longitundial survey on IB scores related to 1st class and 2nd class upper much higher than students come from GCE AL.) 要知道香港考生40分或以上嘅遠超10%，我斷言GSIS, DBS, SPCC 第一批IB考生考到40分或以上的會超過25%以上，很可能在30%以上(with reference to CIS's performance)。(I am not sure about that, wait and see.) 我在pm中提及的男孩子就是40分入讀global business 的。我識另一孩子就HKAL就2A1C入唔到佢要讀嘅major(not BBA-law, global or medicine), 仲要係 SPCC 出品，你話俾你係後者家長嘔唔嘔血？(I guess the 2nd guy's interview performance must be very poor.)

Mark my words: DSE will become a second class qualification. (I don't think so, as JUPAS still have major chunk of places in most hot program, for non-JUPAS may be around 30% right now, max upto 40%. For overseas university is another ball game.) Smart and affordable parents will send their kids to schools offering IB/GCE courses even if they aim at local universities. (If HKDSE tried to copy IBDP, why we don't take IBDP if we have a choice. Better student staff ratio, more interaction, better language proficency, teacher no need to entertain those "smart" offical, unproductive, administrative workload.....) IB will become the life saving straw for the second and third tier direct subsidy schools, which will all give up on DSE syllabus.(All DSS schools must provide majority of the places for local curricullum.) 唔駛多講，香港社會進一步分化。雙儿就係衰在睇事物太通，早人一步唔開心。

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-7-28 02:43 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 stccmc 於 11-7-27 22:23 發表
NSS 可否函接 IBDP 呢？ ...

What do you mean?

In HK most schools are streaming NSS and IBDP, except Logos claimed their students will take both.

For LPCUWC, it takes F5 students who finished F4 only in NSS. I guess those students are fine and can fit in IBDP.

ANChan59

原帖由 mattsmum 於 11-7-27 22:43 發表
別慌張張。今天大學是有second drgree冇人讀的，只是大家想讀law medi global bussines爭崩頭。就像小一入名校而己 。

Second degree or first degree?

mattsmum

Second. 只要有心不怕遲。今天高考放榜，考生四萬人，三萬申請大學，大學收萬二學士生，兩年前會考日校生八萬。同一班人八萬到萬二，成功率15%.
出生率一直下降報小一人數可見。如學士位不減，成功率會向上升。
保持好學之心，不怕沒機會。

雙儿

原帖由 stccmc 於 11-7-27 22:23 發表
雙兒，

這個結論有道理。不過這不是NSS 的問題，是IB 的認受性高和現在辦IB 學校辦得好的原因。

話雖如此,但世事嘅嘢,timing好奇妙.冇NSS呢粒火星,啲傳統學校未必會喺呢個時候轉呔.

[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-7-28 08:42 編輯 ]

ANChan59

Noted

EDB cut secondary school places now, they may cut HKU, CUHK, HKUST or medicine, law, global biz places........ in FIRST DEGREE.......... force students to study HD or AD, then top up degree and then 2nd degree........ You may be right.

But the students and families may bear huge debts (Relatively) before they can find a job....

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-7-28 09:10 編輯 ]

雙儿

It is not just IB, it is also easier to use GCE or SAT+AP results to get into local universities.

The major the second boy applied does not require an interview. I suspect the boy "died' from lacking a near perfect HKCEE score.

It is silly to compare IB with GCE which is more or less a joke. The exam simply has lost its filtering function if close to 30% of its candidates are awarded top grade. Similar to GCE, AP's grade inflation is also very serious. But the irony is that you can use them almost grade for grade as HKAL grades in applying to local universities.

The university places allotted to non-jupas undoubtedly are smaller in number, but what about the number of IB students? We have to look at the relative percentages. As I said, at the end of day, smart and AFFORDABLE parents will make the obvious choice.

[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-7-28 09:15 編輯 ]

ANChan59

It is not just IB, it is also easier to use GCE or SAT+AP results to get into local universities. (Agreed, but we may compare with different categories of students. e.g. IB 40+, HKAL 2-3 As may be one league, if GCE AL 3As compare with HKAL 2B1C, may be equivalent. Like in medicine, 1/3 EAS, 1/3 JUPAS and 1/3 non-JUPAS, in non-JUPAS very limited students came from IB, GCE or AP.... For other general programs, may be yes....)

The major the second boy applied does not require an interview. I suspect the boy "died' from lacking a near perfect HKCEE score. (Yes, HKCEE results may account 25-30% of WGPA)

It is silly to compare IB with GCE which is more or less a joke. The exam simply has lost its filtering function if close to 30% of its candidates are awarded top grade. Similar to GCE, AP's grade inflation is also very serious. But the irony is that you can use them almost grade for grade as HKAL grades in applying to local universities. (JUPAS should adopt UCAS' practise to use a tariff system to rank different examinations and grades.)

The university places allotted to non-jupas undoubtedly are smaller in number, but what about the number of IB students? We have to look at the relative percentages. As I said, at the end of day, smart and AFFORDABLE parents will make the obvious choice. (Non-JUPAS just very few places for IB, why? becasue, the acceptance requirement of medicine in CUHK, 40-42 excluded bonus point, even higher than Cambridge medicine, which one you will take? In 55 seats for non-JUPAS, 15 - graduates, some transfer from UK yr1 medical student, IB, GCE AL....... IB only minority, LPCUWC in average only one student per year to CUHK medicine, equivalent scores, students can have scholarship from Ivy League. Sometimes, I feel IB students are discrimated just like HKAL vs GCE AL....)

Do you have other comments on NSS and HKDSE?

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-7-28 09:39 編輯 ]

cow

原帖由 雙儿 於 11-7-28 09:14 發表
It is not just IB, it is also easier to use GCE or SAT+AP results to get into local universities.

雙儿,

This time I have to agree with you.

The NARIC report has made comparisons (other than English Language) between HKCEE and HKAL with GCSE and GCE AL:
HKCEE, GCSE
A -> A*
B -> A*,A
C -> A,B
D -> B,C
E -> C,D

HKAL, GCE AL
A -> A
B -> A
C -> A
D -> B
E -> C/D
F -> D/E

I was very suprised when I noticed that in 2008 the conditional offer for CUHK LLB was ABB and before was BBB in GCE AL.

ANChan59

原帖由 stccmc 於 11-7-28 09:11 發表
ANChan

You already answered my question. Thanks.

How typical is LPC's admission policy among IB schools in HK?

DBS will take students at G9 - Pre-IB and G10 - IBDP.....
ESF

judy

本來唔想回應此題目，因為題目本身太反智，甚麽繼母語教学後，另一大災難云云。母語教學大災難麽？全世界那國不是母語教的？

IB，我唔清楚。新文憑，阿二未讀。不過，凈係選科，都煩到死。可能有家長不喜歡煩。但我就鍾意那句：有得選，先至係老板。加上少考一試，食咗甜頭先。其他的，以後再算吧！

雙兒的出現，將此題目引向有趣：究底那個課程升学着數呢？

呢方面，AChan是專家，雙兒見識廣。我在這一两年，剛好有子侄升大学，有些体會：

1. 大學喜愛Non-Jupus學生，可能是，因可提高國际排名。但Non-Jupus學生包括了大陸生，本地另類課程生("國际"学校)，甚至外國回留之博士生。我曾見有SPCC学生，劍桥畢業，申請两家Medicine都被拒。相反，有GCE AL的，却順利入讀。中大的Global Business，聽講今年收17人(包括拔尖)，阿大有5個同学拔尖入去，有两個10A。咁如果你話IB容易入，我估分數外，真係要睇睇背景了。

2. 雙兒提到的2A1C學生入唔到熱門？何謂熱門呢？是不是現時啲人太功利太狹淺，眼光只有幾個熱門科目(依家連Medicine都唔係，嫌太申苦)呢？2A連劍桥Law都可以入到啦。

我今天又收到两個喜訊。两個侄兒都入到熱门嘅科目，佢地嘅父母可能連IB係咪東東都唔知。我始終相信，讀書尋知識，讀好書，自然考好試，考好試，自然入到大學。

連課外活動、連義工都計過度過，做人有何意義呢？

ANChan59

MonMumMum
没有关系的. 香港大把錢, 留下来比未来贪官用不如现在先用. 大不了将来摊大手板问阿爷拿. 我同意在小学阶段采用小班或双老师制对小朋友的双语能力一定有非常大的影响

Stccmc
//我同意在小学阶段采用小班或双老师制对小朋友的双语能力一定有非常大的影响//
不配合課程改革，強推小班等如推錢落咸水海，語文教育更甚。

MonMumMum
当然要配合课程改革啦!
不过, 我个人觉得读书是小孩的责任, 必须维持适量的压力才可跟欧美中国星韩台学生竞争. 愉快学习之余更要勤力练习. 任你个人晓飞但考试成绩不高,进不了顶级大学的话, 将来要付出的努力是更多的.

ANChan59

Stccmc
社會應該要多點 generalists, all-rounded education， 所以中學文理兼備我認為是好的。specialists 在大學才分科還未遲。
不過要考慮跟不上的同學的出路，有他們的選擇，發掘他們文理以外的長處，不要浪費光陰金錢。

MonMumMum
同意. 以前中学学科根本对就业没有帮助. 以理科来说, 读完A.MATH, P.MATH, PHY, CHEM, BIO后升不上大学对做零售SALES, 清洁或酒店员工有何用? 不同学科起码令学生平衡一点.

Annie123
有文有理的課程，其實在外國，有些大學也採用。美國很多 liberal arts college/university 也是要學生每個範籌都要讀。其實，我覺得很適合 late bloomers，很多孩子，遲遲未想清楚自己想往那個方向走，讀 liberal arts，可能在過程得到啟發。

ANChan59

MonMumMum
通識教育是在这个教育制度下必须要用脑的科目. 提升小朋友的批判思维, 亦会关心四周发生的事情. 但对只会背答案, DRILLING的学生或家长是一个梦魇.

ANChan59

Stccmc
美英澳加全部只有幾十間大學有回應有關 HKDSE 的收生標準。名校只有幾間。英國的有一半係二等大學。不妙。

ANChan59

Stccmc
學生多一年時間，程度深一些是合理的。但無論 HKCEE or HKAL 程度也好像比英美深。有否必要呢？如果HKDSE 降低小小程度，大學才發力，會是甚麼樣呢？但又牽涉認受性。

ANChan59

MonMumMum
刚刚改制时有冲击是不能避免的, 起码是向正确的方向走. 有愿景是好的, 能不能执行就是另外一回事了!

MonMumMum
另外, 我不认为母语教学有问题, 是班蠢官员的执行问题. 要改变市场上对英中的观念, 必须先有一些SUCCESSFUL CASE. 母语对学习是好的, 这个是不能否定的. 但必须在英语教育上付出更多资源. 首先, 班蠢官员提出要达标才能办英中, 马上标签了成绩, 试问谁会愿意小孩给标签为下等人. 其次, 因学习效率高了, 每一节课堂省下5分钟加给英语堂, 一天下来可以多最少1堂, 不够的话再加堂配合课程改革及大量课外英语活动 . 未必比现在的英中差. 只要家长看到资源充足, 反感未必这么大. 第三, 最先一批要做中中的一定是KINGS, QC, QEC..等等一线官中. 教育官员积极了解进度再作微调, 几年下来如果成绩显著就成功了.
母语教育是一种理念, 要么不做, 不要缩下缩下. 应该省下这些废官员的人工投放幼儿教育效果更好.

雙儿
Mark my words: DSE will become a second class qualification. Smart and affordable parents will send their kids to schools offering IB/GCE courses even if they aim at local universities. IB will become the life saving straw for the second and third tier direct subsidy schools, which will all give up on DSE syllabus. 唔駛多講，香港社會進一步分化。

Mattsmom
回覆 2# MonMumMum 的文章
我不認為要罵官員，最後的話事人~~大學可以説中文為教學語言，外資銀行說中文為工作語言，全港的各專業界別、x師y師醫師說中文為考試語言，你看那時家長還去英中？只是那一天~~~~~~~嘆氣。

MonMumMum
如果推行得法及有足够的资源，我相信这类母语教学出来的学生中英程度不一定比现在的英中差。
推行母语其实亦有POLITICAL的理由，所以我觉得可投放的资源是可以很多的----除非官员是无间道。
我儿子还小，如果IB入U持续有优势的话，到升中 时真的要考虑一下了。

ANChan59

Talknwrite
災難又唔會, 就算係都冇得返轉頭.
我覺得在本地根本不會出現什麼問題, 一向中學學歷的工作都不會有什麼特別要求.
大學轉四年制是主因, 將中學變六年制, 一個中學公開考試, 唔再行英制, 方向是絶對正確.
海外升學最大問題反而就是行英制的國家.

judy
本來唔想回應此題目，因為題目本身太反智，甚麽繼母語教学後，另一大災難云云。母語教學大災難麽？全世界那國不是母語教的？
IB，我唔清楚。新文憑，阿二未讀。不過，凈係選科，都煩到死。可能有家長不喜歡煩。但我就鍾意那句：有得選，先至係老板。加上少考一試，食咗甜頭先。其他的，以後再算吧！
雙兒的出現，將此題目引向有趣：究底那個課程升学着數呢？