Which IS is the best?

Darth

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-12 02:10 發表
CDNIS's result:-

http://www.cdnis.edu.hk/en/news/documents/GradProfile2010.pdf

I have also found another document on the CDNIS website.

http://www.cdnis.edu.hk/en/documents/IBresult(full)_2010.pdf

Whilst the Mandarin results are very high (many students got 7), the English results are really unacceptable. Most people get a 5 in English A1, and only a 4 in English A2.

The averages for both levels are in the range of 4.X for English which is, in my opinion, totally unacceptable for an international school.

Darth

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-12 20:36 發表
Yes, CDNIS's English A1 HL and SL scores were both below World Average.  But I wonder if it had something to do with the fact that a lot of its students chose to do English A1 HL instead of SL.  Looki ...

thankful,
I think I was probably like you, trying to find some kind of excuse of why their English scores were so low.
But for individual student, it he gets a 4, it is a four. It is already too late. It was the responsibility of the school to advice what level of the subject the student should take. And if HL is too challenging, take SL.
In any case, for international students, is HL really that hard?

arielle.w

I guess there is no excuse for CDNIS students to get such 'bad' scores in English. One of the obvious reasons is that many of them speak cantonese amongst themselves.

To answer your question, yes it really is pretty hard for a student from international school student to do well in English A1 as the course content is more about literature than the language. Some students just aren't a 'literature person'. It's the same in SAT cases, achieving good Maths and Writing scores but not CR.

原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-12 21:36 發表


thankful,
I think I was probably like you, trying to find some kind of excuse of why their English scores were so low.
But for individual student, it he gets a 4, it is a four. It is already too lat ...

Darth

原帖由 arielle.w 於 10-9-12 22:04 發表
To answer your question, yes it really is pretty hard for a student from international school student to do well in English A1 as the course content is more about literature than the language. Some students just aren't a 'literature person'. It's the same in SAT cases, achieving good Maths and Writing scores but not CR.

I do not agree.

I know well the cirriculum of Langauge A. Yes, Language A is not easy. But I do not think that it is hard to get a 5. I am not talking about 6 or 7. A mere 5, and a student cannot even get that? Well, then, may be this student should not consider IBD at all.

In IBD, 5 is a language A is almost the minimum (at least, that's what I expect from my children).  Honestly, even in lower grades, international school students are already studying lots of literature. Language A in IBD is merely an extension of the lower grades English.

OK, somehow, there are students in such a prestige international school that cannot cope with language A1 (well, isn't that unbelievable why the school would let that happen?). Then such student should be adviced to take one level lower in order to secure a better score. If HL is too hard for Jane Doe, ask her to take SL. If English A is too hard for Jane Doe, she needs to take English B. And if the school does not have English B as an alternative, does it mean that this student should not be with this school in the first place. I think the arrangement (asking student with poor English to go for English A1) is in fact a poor decision. Yet if the school (and students) insist on taking English A1, the school (and students) need to make arrangements to push the English standard up. It may mean extra tutuition outside classes.

Now that you mention SAT, it is totally a piece of cake for IBD students. If one really work hard, it is not hard to KO SAT.

[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-12 22:53 編輯 ]

arielle.w

I think you do have a point in CDNIS' policy of placing students into different classes. Class of 2010 is just the first cohort of IBDP at CDNIS so there of course is still room for improvement. Perhaps the school/students underestimated the difficulty of English A1 HL and hence that is the result. I believe they will have better results and arrangement in the coming years.

It probably isn't hard to get a 5 in English A1 SL but English A1 HL is like a whole different world. I think students should choose the suitable of courses for themselves and aim for a 5 or more but not enrolling into a wrong course and still aim for a 5. It is just unrealistic. You probably noticed that many students in CIS took English A1 SL over HL. The fact is that English A1 HL is for students who are really good at English, both language and literature wise.

I still remember a little discussion between me and my friends right after the IB English exam 2010. They took English A1 SL at CIS and no one was confident in getting a good result at that time since everyone interpreted the poem differently and no one was sure about the correct answer. I always believe language is like a talent. If you're not a language person, you just can't force it to do English A1 HL.

And about the problem of students not being able to cope with English A1. I am not a CDNIS hater but some of the ppl there really can't speak good English. It seems kinda unreasonable but we gotta understand quite a number of CDNIS students are transfer students from local schools. It does take time for them to pick up the language and stuff. The school is not to blame I guess.

原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-12 22:50 發表


I do not agree.

I know well the cirriculum of Langauge A. Yes, Language A is not easy. But I do not think that it is hard to get a 5. I am not talking about 6 or 7. A mere 5, and a student cannot e ...

[ 本帖最後由 arielle.w 於 10-9-12 23:11 編輯 ]

Darth

原帖由 arielle.w 於 10-9-12 23:08 發表
It seems kinda unreasonable but we gotta understand quite a number of CDNIS students are transfer students from local students. It does take time for them to pick up the language and stuff. The school is not to blame I guess.

I believe that many international schools accept lots of students from local school for high school levels. Then this is the responsiblity of the school to offer alternative levels of English to students. IBD is not the time to challenge oneself. It is a time to get the right level of courses. If those students from local schools are not ready for A1 HL, offer them A2 or even B (and at the same time let them have an option to take Chinese A). If the school is unwilling to provide language classes in other levels, those students not having good English level will need to go to another school.

From looking at the overall results, it appears to me that the score of 5 -6 are the norm with most other subjects. So it is really a pity that the norm of English is at the range of 4 - 5.

I am not picking on CDNIS particularly. If any other schools are as inflexible, they should also be asked to make changes to meet the needs of different students.

[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-12 23:29 編輯 ]

Darth

I am wondering if you know the answer to this one.  Let say I get 4 in English A1 HL.  If I do SL instead, what am I likely to get?  A 5, 6 or 7?  I just want to gauge the difference in standard between the 2 levels.

==> I am still finding my way to try to plot the difference too. But for sure you if you are a 4 in A1 HL, you are probably at least a 5 in SL. Now one more point is one more point. And I think a 4 in your results is not going to look good for admissions purpose.

By the way, looking at the statistics of CIS, English A1 HL do look pretty hard to me.  Only 13 students got 5 or above in English A1 HL which in your view is the minimum acceptable.  But it's out of 102 students taking English as a subject.  In this respect, it looks rather difficult.  I wonder if anybody has statistics for other IS so that we can make comparisons.

==> Unfortunately, not all schools are willing to provide a breakdown. But I think sometimes talking to people might be as meaningful.
I personally know a few IBD students, 2 from class of 2009 and 2 from class of 2010. Three with ESF and one with RCHK. They all got at least 5 in English HL. So that was why I have always thought that a 5 should be achievable. Let's do some simple arithmatic. With 6 subjects, we are talking about a mere 30 points if you get a 5 in everything. So how can we be willing to accept 4? If, it is really the case that my kid is "4 person" with English HL, I need to ask him to move back to SL to try to get at least a 5.
A 4 in English HL would not help with admission anyway. Moving back to SL (with a hope to get at least a 5), and aiming for schools/subjects that do not require English HL would make much more sense.

The most important thing with IBD is that, do lots of research of what subjects you need to get into universities. You need Math HL for engineering and Chemistry for forensic science. You do not need Math SL for history major and you do not need English A1 HL for Math major. Try to find out what you need, take the right level of classes. No more no less.

Darth

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-13 02:18 發表
Do the universities spell out specifically what subjects, levels and points you need for a particular course?

I got a lot of information by checking the schools' websites. You need to time digging for information. More details might be obtained if you write to each school.

iamfine

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-13 02:18 發表
Do the universities spell out specifically what subjects, levels and points you need for a particular course?

Not sure about universities in the States but many in the UK do. When the universities are making "firm" (as opposed to so called "insurance") offers, they may require the offerees to achieve, say, a total of 36 (including bonus points) with 6, 6, 6 in the three HLs. There may be some further specific requirements when it comes to certain curricula. Law at Oxbridge and Durham may require at least a 6 in English A1 (HL). A student will certainly need at least a 6 in Chemistry (HL) to get into one of the top medi schools ...

Darth

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-13 11:51 發表
So before the kids choose their IB subjects and levels, they better make up their mind as to what they want to do in university and also zoom in on the particular universities they have in mind so that they will have a rough idea as to what they are expected to achieve in IB ultimately.  It's not exactly an easy decision for a 16 yeards old kid, is it?

It is hard indeed. So that's when the university placement team of the school come into the picture. And, parents need to be hands-on too. Do not leave it to the school. Work hard and fight for the subject your need. If the school does not offer what is appropriate (eg. English A2 instead of English A1 HL), check out with other schools, even if it means that you need to settle with a school with less fame. Getting a 4 in English A1 HL with Prestige High School is not getting you to any good university. I would rather get a 5 in English A2 with Ordinary High School.

[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-13 12:30 編輯 ]