IS (ie ESF) or local DSS (ie DBSPD/ St. Paul's Co-ed)

yyyy

小女學校((IS)中二時便要我們決定中文是第一語言還是外語,請教應如何選擇?

evatsoihk

爲什麽不問問你女兒，她想選哪一個做第一語言呢？

如果她的中、英文同樣都很強，那就比較頭疼了......

原帖由 yyyy 於 09-4-6 10:09 發表
小女學校((IS)中二時便要我們決定中文是第一語言還是外語,請教應如何選擇?

kcpapa

?? IS ?? choose 1st language??  then what language are they using in school??  English or Chinese...  I do not know any IS using Chinese as teaching language.  I heard ISF is using Chinese from P1 to P3.  

Agree!! Why don't you ask your daughter if she is good at Chinese, why not.  In Japan, they are using Japanese, in China and Taiwan, they are using Chinese... only Hong Kong a tiny niche where east meet west, we want to use English.  As long as the kids can learn most and interested to learn, language is only a media.  

My daugher go IS is not because of language but the way of teaching.

Ruby1219

her question is about 2nd language. Many IS asked parents/students to choose a second language when they enter secondary. E.g. in GSIS English Department, English is the 1st language, German is the 2nd (as far as I know), while kids can take Chinese or French as the 3rd language.

kcpapa

Sorry... I have some difficulty in reading...

決定中文是第一語言還是外語,請教應如何選擇?

But I read again, I think she is asking if she should choose Chinese or Foreign language as the 1st language.  Isn't it?

yyyy

英文當然是第一語言,但學校可以讓同學選擇國語是第一語言或是外語...

我其實是不知道如果選國語是第一語言有什麼好處,選as外語又有什麼壞處...對將來升讀大學不知有沒有影響...

原帖由 evatsoihk 於 09-4-7 14:40 發表
爲什麽不問問你女兒，她想選哪一個做第一語言呢？

如果她的中、英文同樣都很強，那就比較頭疼了......

evatsoihk

不太明白你的問題….既然英語已經是學校的第一語言，爲何還要學生去選擇呢？？


如果是爲了爭取分數上的優勢，那就要看你女兒她自問哪一個比較強了；但如果是爲了升讀大學而選擇的話，那當然是選擇英語了，皆因日後大學的參考書、文獻等資料，還是英文的參考書籍佔優勢，不僅容易收集資料，而且書的種類也多。


孩子若能用第一語言的思維去直接閲讀，就省卻了在腦海中“翻譯”的功夫。

不知道說得對不對，請各家長指教。

原帖由 yyyy 於 09-4-8 10:36 發表
英文當然是第一語言,但學校可以讓同學選擇國語是第一語言或是外語...

我其實是不知道如果選國語是第一語言有什麼好處,選as外語又有什麼壞處...對將來升讀大學不知有沒有影響...

...

popolung

One should pick up the language preference when they are selecting the school for the kid, not after the kid has entered the school, at least for the 1st language, just my 2 cents.

foolish.mom

yyy,

Is your kid doing IB?

For IB, besides English as a 1st language, students can study another 1st language (mostly Chinese language) or a 2nd language, or even two 1st language and one 2nd language.

In IS, most students' Chinese standard, I believe, are between 1st language and 2nd language. if they choose 1st language to study, they need to study harder and the average mark can be lower. If they choose 2nd language, mark is of course much higher, but the graduate certificate will show that the kid has studied Chinese as a 2nd language only.

It will affect University placement and future job selection.

It can be a difficult decision. But the Chinese teacher should have some comments about your kid's standard and make some recommendations.

yyyy

你說的正是...

所以我有矛盾。如果從grade的角度出發,當然是選as 2nd language,因為對手相對不強,拿高分的機會大些;我本人傾向選as 1st language(假設學校老師比小女選擇),好處是學校的課程訓練會相對強些,學習到的東西會多些;壞處是公開考試時對手會強些...如果升大學和工作任選都沒有影響,就更加難選,如果有影響,選as 1st language都有其價值...

原帖由 foolish.mom 於 09-4-8 22:02 發表
yyy,

Is your kid doing IB?

For IB, besides English as a 1st language, students can study another 1st language (mostly Chinese language) or a 2nd language, or even two 1st language and one 2nd langua ...

almom

原帖由 yyyy 於 09-4-9 11:59 發表
如果從grade的角度出發,當然是選as 2nd language,因為對手相對不強,拿高分的機會大些;

I think, for IB, the grade that you get with have nothing to do with 對手. Everyone is assessed according to his own performance. So, if it happens that everyone one is that good, we can have everyone getting 7s or 6s. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong though.

I know that most international school students in Hong Kong taking IBD are taking Chinese as second language. There are some that do both Chinese and English at first language level. But I am sure they are really the very few "good ones", because Chinese A is really hard and not every international school student can cope.

What subjects (and what level of the subjects) you should choose would very much depend on what you need to apply for universities.

For example, high level math would be necessary for engineerings. On the other hand, if you are considering majoring in English language, why take the hardest math to make your life difficult?

Practically speaking, it is not wise to (and students would usually be advised not to) take lots of "hard" subjects, unless they are absolutely necessary for application to universities.

It is the school's responsibility (because they should have the expertise to provide advice) to help students choose subjects. There are tactics that you need in order to choose the right subjects (at the right levels) to maximize your score. And a good school counselling team should be able to help students make the right choice.

[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-4-9 16:31 編輯 ]

foolish.mom

yyyy,

Some more points to share:

For my kid, the school told us that he should study Chinese as a 1st language. So no need to choose.

I know that Chinese A1 at IB diploma level is really very tough, may be similar to Chinese language & literature of HKAL. I am doubtful if my kid can attain that level eventually. But I will let him stay in 1st language Chinese until and unless his teacher tells us not to.

W should encourage our kids to learn more Chinese at higher level, if they have the ability. Marks should not be the highest priority. If they stay in 2nd language Chinese, we are taking away their opportunity to learn higher level Chinese.

By the way, I think for IB marks, a 1st language Chinese at 5 or 6 is still better than 2nd language Chinese at 7 (both for U placement and future job), and the average mark is only lowered by 0.2 or 0.3.

Chinese is becoming more important. Two of my friends' daughters, who are lawyers and speak English better than Chinese, got the opportunity to work in Shanghai only because they can read and write Chinese.

原帖由 yyyy 於 09-4-9 11:59 發表
你說的正是...

所以我有矛盾。如果從grade的角度出發,當然是選as 2nd language,因為對手相對不強,拿高分的機會大些;我本人傾向選as 1st language(假設學校老師比小女選擇),好處是學校的課程訓練會相對強些,學習到的 ...

almom

foolish.mom,

You are absolutely right. Chinese language is now extremely important. Many of my friends in the US (western friends) are making their children learn Chinese language at school. In fact, a lot of schools in the US are offering Chinese as an option, and it is probably the next most popular second language after Spanish.

I am now in a situation and would like to have yours and other parents view. I am now standing at a point where I really have problems pushing my kids Chinese further up. (Headache...)

My children have always been using English as their first language. I think it is their own Chinese foundation that make it really hard to move to anything close to Chinese A. In fact, they are probably the best amongst other students with similar background. Those kids seem to have been in the beginner level forever.

Of course, ideally, if they can even move a little up and have slightly better Chinese it would be good. But I think after almost 2 years with RC, I need to accept that this is probably quite impossible. They really cannot cope anything harder than the Chinese classes now.

I have been thinking. I stopped learning Chinese since secondary school when I moved to Canada. Since then I have studied in both Canada and the US without going back to seriously learn Chinese language at all.

I still speak and write Chinese and all my previous employers knew that. They have never doubt my Chinese language reading and writing ability, knowing that I have lived in North America for 20+ years, knowing that I only officially have primary level Chinese skills.

Obviously they did not ask for any official qualifications of Chinese language from me at all. And as far as I know, employers seldom check the Chinese language qualifications. In fact, I think quite a lot of overseas educated Hong Konger probably left Hong Kong as early as right after primary school (like me) and they would not have any official Chinese language qualifications at all. Unless you are thinking of being a civil servant, it appears to me that employers are more keen on making sure that your professional qualifications  are good (your major at university is relevant) than checking out what you had for Chinese at HKCEE or A Level.

So is it really necessary that my children would need a Chinese A at all 10+ years from now? Chinese B would sound like much more "advanced" than my primary level Chinese. If I and so many others who do not have any Chinese language qualifications at all had no problem with using Chinese at work, why would any one with a Chinese B have any problem at all?

All views are welcome.

BTW, foolish.mom, do you mind telling us which school is your child(ren) studying now? Can you please share how you helped your child(ren) keep up with Chinese in an international school. It is already hard to really keep up and let alone being able to be as good as Chinese A level.

[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-4-11 11:54 編輯 ]

mattsmum

I heard IB chinese A1 is not easy, here is someone's blog, just put it here for our knowlege of how it is:

第一部分  世界文學
康拉德 ─ 黑心 Heart of Darkness
珍‧瑞絲 ─ 夢迴藻海 The Wide Sargosso Sea
夏綠蒂‧伯朗特 ─ 簡愛 Jane Eyre

第二部分 精讀
柳宗元 ─ 散文 ─ 三戒、種樹郭橐駝傳、捕蛇者說、始得西山宴遊記、至小丘西小石潭記
漢樂府 ─ 詩詞 ─ 孔雀東南飛

第三部分 按體裁編組作品
錢鍾書 ─ 圍城
張愛玲 ─ 怨女
福樓拜 ─ 巴法利夫人 (世界文學)

※這部分我選的體裁是長篇小說

第四部分 學校自選作品
鄭愁予 ─ 夢土上
徐志摩 ─ 志摩的詩
佛羅斯特 Robert Frost ─ 詩選 selected poems (世界文學)

※這個部分選詩讓我吃了苦頭...我還沒開始讀，所以也不知道難不難

要強調的一點就是，我選的不一定都是好的，不必照單全收，這樣害到你我會不好意思啦
只是給你做參考而已，最重要的還是要選自己喜歡的書〈至少要看的下去的書〉會學的比較愉快

mattsmum

sample again,
not eay,

why not just get the kid a private turtor and try the local chinese exam?
http://sites.cst.acs.sch.edu.sg/chinese/IB/IBa1h.html

IB Diploma Programme
Chinese A1 Higher Level Course Outline

中文A1高级课程纲要
学习作品总数：15




  

讲授内容     Texts
1.         世界文学作品1《咆哮山庄》爱米莉.勃朗特World Literature 1 “Wuthering Heights” by Emily Bronte


2.         世界文学作品2《苔丝》托马斯.哈代World Literature 2 “Tess of d’Urbervilles” by Thomas Hardy

3.         世界文学作品3《包法利夫人》福楼拜  World Literature 3 “Madame Bovary” by Gustave Flaubert


4.         世界文学作品4《局外人》阿尔贝.卡缪    World Literature 4 “L’Etranger” by Albert Camus


5.         古典诗歌《杜甫诗选》Classical Poetry “Du Fu Selected Poems”

6.         古典长篇小说《水浒传》 施耐庵Classical Novel “The Water Margin“ by Shi Nai An


7.         古典戏剧《西廂记》王实甫Classical Drama “The West Chamber” by Wang Shi Fu


8.         古典短篇小说《喻世名言》冯梦龙
Classical Short Stories “Tales of Morals” by Feng Meng Long

9.         现当代长篇小说《家》巴金 Contemporary Novel “Family” by Ba Jin

10.    现当代长篇小说《骆驼祥子》老舍
Contemporary Novel “Camel Xiang Zi” by Lao She

11.    《围城》钱钟书Contemporary Novel ”Fortress” by Qian Zhong Shu

12.    现代诗歌《徐志摩诗选》Modern Poetry “Xu Zhi Mo Selected Poems”

13.    现代散文《冰心文集》Modern Literary Works “Bing Xin Collected Works”

14.    现代短篇小说《彷徨》鲁迅
Modern Short Stories “Indecision” by Lu Xun

15.    台湾及海外作品《又见棕榈，又见棕榈》於梨华Taiwan and Overseas Novel “Again the Palm Trees” by Yu Li Hua


辅助阅读     Supplementary

1.《文学理论基本常识》
”Basic Concept of Literature”

2.《中文A1课程精要》“Students Guide to Success in IB Chinese A1”

3.古典长篇小说《红楼梦》曹雪芹
Classical Novel “Dream of the Red Chamber” by Cao Xue Qin

4.现代长篇小说《边城》沈从文
Modern Novel “The Border Town and Other Stories” by Shen Cong Wen              


5.现代长篇小说《子夜》茅盾
Modern Novel “Midnight” by Mao Dun


6. 世界文学作品《老人与海》海明威
World Literature ”The Old Man and the Sea” by Hemingway, Ernest  

7.古典长篇小说《三国演义》罗贯中
Classical Novel “Romance of the Three Kingdoms” by Luo Guan Zhong  

8.现代话剧《茶馆》老舍Modern Drama “Tea House” by Lao She

Saturn

Hi Almom,

Would you pls check pm?  Thanks.

Saturn.

mattsmum

a teacher told me that IB chinese curriculim will be changed in the coming year.

anyway I found this useful:http://www.51sat.com/other/ib/2184.html
     IB中文课程简介
        一、IB中文课程的分类
        Chinese A1 (Higher Level & Standard Level)
        Chinese A2 (Higher Level & Standard Level)
        Chinese B (Higher Level & Standard Level)
        Chinese AB (SL)
      

二、 课程概要
        
1.   Chinese A1课程（Group l）
        课程性质：属纯文学的母语课程。
        教学对象：主要对象是母语特强、中学曾修读中华文学课程的学生。
        课程的综合性：作品选读／写作／文学理论／文学史等四种文学课程的融合。
        阅读为基础：15本（HL）或11本（SL）作品，分成四个不同的部分，各适用不同的考核要求。
        考试：
        校外 - 写作为主导（70％）：   
        (1) 世界文学作品论文（20％）
        (2) 诗歌或散文作品评论（25％）
        (3) 专题论文（EE）25％ (至少4800字)
        校内 - 口试为辅（30％）：作品评述（15％）
        作品片段评析录音口试（15％）
        评核标准：学生对作品的思考、鉴赏和分析的能力。

        2． Chinese A2课程（Group 2）  
        课程性质：为双语文凭者开设的课程。课程兼备文学和语言两类。
        
教学对象：主要对象是母语较好的学生。
         
课程的综合性：
(1)选读文学作品：六本(HL)、三本(SL)。                           
                                    
(2)A2和B课程的交叉之处：文化课题的选择部分，与B课程所包含的文化和语言现象研讨的课程性质，有相通的地方。
        考试：
        校外 - 写作（75％）：   
        (1) （试卷一）：两篇诗歌或散文作品的比较分析（25％）  
        (2) （试卷二）：六选一的应题作文（25％）
        (3) 写作两篇，各占10％
        校内 -口试（30％）：  
        (1) 选题研讨评述（15％）
        (2) 作品评析录音口试（15％）
       3.   Chinese B课程（Group 2）：
       课程性质：以语文教学为主。非常强调研讨中文所涵盖和体现的中国文化现象及实用性华语的学习，因而形成一般的华语中级课程不同的课程性质和要求。
       教学对象：主要对象是有一般中学母语基础的学生。
       课程的综合性：(1) B课程和A2课程的交叉之处 :文化选题的研究部分性质相通。立足汉语，看世界、看社会、看中华民族，掌握语言，了解中国文化。
                                   
(2) Higher和Standard的区别：作文字数不同。
        
Higher课程 – 480字；Standard课程 – 300字。）
        教学要求：听、说、读、写并重。
        考试：
        校外 -写作，以阅读为基础（70％）：  
        (1) （试卷一）：四篇理解篇章，约57题（ 40％）
        (2) （试卷二）：不同文体的选题作文（30％）
        校内 -口试（30％）：  
        (1) 录音口试（15％）
         时间分配和内容要求：
        (a) 自选话题（5分钟）–  
        (b) 讨论话题（5分钟）
        (c) 一般话题 （5分钟）
        (2) 对话（15％）

yyyy

多謝詳細的解釋。

我覺得這些課程很吸引,如果我女女有機會讀完這些中文系列,我相信我會以她為傲!感覺就好像讀local school的小朋友在小學階段便能讀完harry portter系列一樣,很值得高興!!!

原帖由 mattsmum 於 09-4-12 17:12 發表
a teacher told me that IB chinese curriculim will be changed in the coming year.

anyway I found this useful:http://www.51sat.com/other/ib/2184.html
     IB中文课程简介
        一、IB中文课程的分类
   ...

tingtingting

I heard IB chinese A1 is not easy, here is someone's blog, just put it here for our knowlege of how it is:

Would you mind providing us with a link to the blog?  Thanks.

almom

原帖由 Saturn 於 09-4-12 13:51 發表
Hi Almom,

Would you pls check pm?  Thanks.

Saturn.

I accidentally deleted a couple pm just now. Can you resend yours please? Thanks.