有鬼佬口音嗎?

tomo

Apparently it IS a big deal to many parents. I had a friend who was criticized by her 6 year old daughter in an IS for speaking poor English. This friend of mine is currently undergoing intensive English lessons so that she is not a 'disgrace' in the eyes of her child. This is of course an extreme example.Sometimes over-emphasizing the superiority of one language over another can cause confusion in Asian kids because the kids are still Chinese no matter how great their accent is as I have discovered myself whilst living among the whites.

Pelican

tomo 寫道:
Apparently it IS a big deal to many parents. I had a friend who was criticized by her 6 year old daughter in an IS for speaking poor English. This friend of mine is currently undergoing intensive English lessons so that she is not a 'disgrace' in the eyes of her child. This is of course an extreme example.Sometimes over-emphasizing the superiority of one language over another can cause confusion in Asian kids because the kids are still Chinese no matter how great their accent is as I have discovered myself whilst living among the whites.

If you are responding to my message, you must have misunderstood me.

I was not saying the accent itself is no big deal. Yes it is a big deal, in fact. BTW, Hong Kong accent is in fact amongst the worst accent I have heard. Even Beijing accent or Indian accent are better. Hong Kong accent is always flat with the same tone.

What I was saying, was that "an international school child having a gweilo accent" is no big deal. Because everyone's spoken English is good in an IS. A good accent might be a big deal in a local school, but it should not be in an IS.

So why would one feel so proud of one's kid with gweilo accent, when 500+ other kids also have gweilo accent? That was what I was trying to say.

twinsdady

Happy小米 寫道:
她們都沒有說過"kids have accent make them a better person".

話言用來溝通, 學語言不是需要字正腔圓嗎? (雖然英文都有好多种accent, 但都好過chinglish)
現在好多青年人說懶音, 接受嗎?

現在學校都傾向native speaker教語言, 為什麼?
難道你接受小朋友說菲律賓英文?

要走向世界, 就要提高水準.


極之同意Happy 小米的說法, 學英文我都好想學到英國人口音, 好聽又詞彙豐富，好象貝理雅和布殊演說就知有多大分別，要學更係要學好啲，又有乜問題呢？又無人話過有外國人口音會巴閉啲。如果係的話咪大部份外國人都好巴閉，不要聯想太多，想自己小朋友学會外國人口音又唔係罪。無問題呀。正如我都唔想小朋友講廣東話時口音似倪匡啦。時代唔同喇會講流利英語同身份無關。如果覺得英語了得就係高人一等就係無知。

Gisele

If the daughter look downs on her folk just because they speak poor Englisht, she is a real disgrace.  If I were her folk, I would transfer her to local school right away.

tomo 寫道:
Apparently it IS a big deal to many parents. I had a friend who was criticized by her 6 year old daughter in an IS for speaking poor English. This friend of mine is currently undergoing intensive English lessons so that she is not a 'disgrace' in the eyes of her child. This is of course an extreme example.Sometimes over-emphasizing the superiority of one language over another can cause confusion in Asian kids because the kids are still Chinese no matter how great their accent is as I have discovered myself whilst living among the whites.

tomo

Dear Pelican,
I agree that a kid in an IS speaking good english is something to be expected...in families who use English fluently at home anyway. But there are many families who speak mainly Asian languages  at home(Chinese, Japanese etc) sending their kids to IS nowadays and these parents never went through the IS system themselves. So it may come as a pleasant surprise when they find their kid fluent!

agnesllth

Gisele 寫道:
If the daughter look downs on her folk just because they speak poor Englisht, she is a real disgrace.  If I were her folk, I would transfer her to local school right away.

6 歲小朋友，通常都重會覺得父母係權威。
我覺得咁細個小朋友，就識得睇小父母，同家庭教育都可能有關。現在好多家庭都蹤容孩子，就算孩子錯，都唔敢話佢，日積月累，孩子就覺得父母冇乜權威，唔駛尊重，覺得父母好恰。
這個 case，都已經跟 "英語水平英語口音" 關係唔大，就算佢父母英文好，佢都可能其他方面覺得父母令佢 "冇面"，例如嫌媽咪唔夠靚，嫌爸爸地中海。
轉校點會有幫助？

MarcusD

丫頭 寫道:
Happy小米 好同意您既講法   

我開呢個topic都係出於好奇心&想同IS既家長分享下小朋友係IS成長的其中小小部份.........老實講我又唔覺其他家長好沾沾自喜(我相信有些人認為既得戚)自己既小朋友能講得出有鬼佬口音更加feel唔到有"kids have accent make them a better person"呢種感覺!  

會唔會係您地想多左呢?  

Totally agree with 丫頭, To a parent’s eye their child is always special and lovely!

What I don’t understand my child is how can he suddenly change his accent. Particularly those word with the “er” ending! I only feel that it is funny! If I have make you feel that I am 沾沾自喜 or 得戚! Then… Sorry that is not what I meant. And of course it does not make a better person! Who said that anyway?

But sometime accent do reflect how good is your pronunciation. My boy hasn’t criticized my English yet, however in several occasion he did correct my mistake! Few months ago, I took him to Ocean Park. We went to see Turtle. I pointed to one of them and pronounce “tortoys” Then He told me another pronunciation. Later I found out I was wrong!!!
(my teacher was wrong too!!)

I tell myself “what a shame” I want to speak English correctly and even undergoing intensive English lessons if necessary! I don’t feel sorry for my mistake, but feel sorry for those who pretended not to see the mistake and keep on saying tortoys. Unofficially I conducted a test 8 out of 10 fresh graduated student pronounce tortoys.

May be you guy speak correct English all the time. To me, It is a bit embarrassed when my boy correct my English (In the puplic), Sometime I am totally wrong with the pronunciation, but most of the time I am just too lazy. I treat this reminder positively. At least I have to Honest to him and myself!

What should I tell my 3.5 years old boy? "Do not correct your parent, even they are wrong!"

But he is so innocent and direct thinking! What's wrong with that?


MarcusD

shalalaor

I think having the accent is very important. Just like when we learn Mandarin, if we speak with our cantonese accent, it s considered to be no good. So same case to English, if you carry your chinese accent, how good your spoken english could be?!

kyliema2006

Do you refer 'tortoys' to 'tortoise', tortoise is different from turtle, one lives in the sea, while the other lives on land.

[quote]
MarcusD 寫道:
[quote]
丫頭 寫道:
Happy小米 好同意您既講法   

But sometime accent do reflect how good is your pronunciation. My boy hasn’t criticized my English yet, however in several occasion he did correct my mistake! Few months ago, I took him to Ocean Park. We went to see Turtle. I pointed to one of them and pronounce “tortoys” Then He told me another pronunciation. Later I found out I was wrong!!!
(my teacher was wrong too!!)

I

MarcusD

Dear kyliema

When I pronounce Sea Turtle, somehow i speak like "sea Tortoys" !

I was wrong, for more than 3x year! When I look back, i am so surprise. I can't see my own mistake, even it is so obvious  I guess!!

Anyway "tortoise" does not pronounce "tortoys" too!

When I clearify it with my friend she told me, No shame... Lifelong learning!

couldn't agree more!

[quote]
kyliema2006 寫道:
Do you refer 'tortoys' to 'tortoise', tortoise is different from turtle, one lives in the sea, while the other lives on land.

papa_pop

Think all would agree it's great for kids to speak English with a native accent (or neutral accent in linguistic term).

But a good-hearted reminder: kids speaking Cantonese with an English accent should be 'corrected' by parents esp if they still take HK as home.

502

Agree to papa_pop.

I use to feel ashamed if my kids cannot speak Cantonese (at least) in a proper and decent way.  Of course, I even dream that they would have nice accent in Mandarin in long run.

papa_pop 寫道:
Think all would agree it's great for kids to speak English with a native accent (or neutral accent in linguistic term).

But a good-hearted reminder: kids speaking Cantonese with an English accent should be 'corrected' by parents esp if they still take HK as home.

Saturn

其實英語的'口音'都好'雜'.  就算是英,美,加,澳的本土人都有多種口音.  而所有在HK的IS都會請不同國籍口音的教師, 要小朋友在IS讀書能夠說出Standard British English（Ｒｏｙａｌ　ａｃｃｅｎｔ）都不是易事.  在IS讀書的小朋友亦都是因為老師來自五湖四海, 他們都能接受和適應去聽不同的口音.   

我兒子也有說過我英語不好, 我也反問他, 你能跟我一樣能夠用英,普,粵跟不同的人溝通嗎?  我都不鼓勵自己的小朋友會以為自己流利的英語是(高人一等).  

Saturn.

Kycmc

There are all sorts of accent in my workplace --- American, Standard British, Scottish, French, Romanian, Mainland Chinese, Spanish, Dutch, Indian, Polish, Malaysian, Austraaaalian...........etc. To me there are only two types of spoken English: the easy-to-hear English and the not-so-easy one. The accent that won the not-so-easy grand prize is from an English speaking country ....................... the Scottish!

Born in UK, having spent over 20 years in Canada and 5 years in HK, married to a Mainland Chinese wife, has travelled all over the world, my gweilo colleague once remarked, "English no longer only belongs to traditional English speaking countries. It is now a language owned by people all over the world as a common medium for communication. It is only natural that English is being shaped, changed, enriched or even "eroded" by other cultures and languages." He saw nothing wrong with local Chinese kids use Chinese grammatical structures while expressing in English.  To him, it is an inevitable process of language evolution.

So gweilos have a view that can be so different from ours!

Saturn

Kycmc,

Your definition of spoken English is funny but right : "the easy-to-hear English and the not-so-easy one".    

As for gweilo, they commonly expect non-native Eng. speakers' standard of Eng. much lower than we expect from ourselves.  If a non-native Eng. speaker can speak Eng. smoothly & react interactively with them, they would already say your Eng. is good.  Same as how we think when gweilo speaks fluent Cantonese with gweilo accent.

Saturn.   

nintendo

人家真正紅鬚綠眼的，唔會點理你係乜口音，反正對於佢地母語係英語的人，香港口音，德國口音，印度口音，都一樣 --- 唔標準。
菲律賓口音有乜問題？如果佢文法冇錯，好聽過香港口音 -- 香港口音，最唔好聽，完全成個句子一個 tone，冇高低抑揚。其實，菲律賓人比人話英文差，係比 d 菲傭累事，菲傭好多係鄉下妹，來做傭工的都不會受正統英語教育，英語只係第二語，佢地的問題係英語差，用詞文法差。我就識有好多菲藉朋友 ( 並非傭工 ) 英文好過香港人多多聲，即使部份傭工，有 d 英文都好好，我家中的菲傭，英文肯定好過一般香港人，但當然有少少菲律賓口音啦，but so what？講真，香港人英文又有幾好？
學語言，重點係，文法用詞要正確，口音其次，反正任何語言，都冇可能冇自家的口音。單單係廣東話，香港同東莞都唔同。
甚麼 "有鬼佬口音，先係正貨"，簡直一派胡言 ---- 因為你根本 define 唔到乜野係 "正宗鬼佬口音"，如果硬說英國皇室的口音，先係正宗，唔通當美國人加拿大人澳洲人係生番？
再講，在香港教學的外籍老師，英國人只係少數，你孩子日常聽到的，都可能只係美國或澳洲口音，如果你孩子在美國老師澳洲老師的教導下，都識講一口流利英國口音，咁就真係神奇。

nintendo

tomo 寫道:
Dear Pelican,
I agree that a kid in an IS speaking good english is something to be expected...in families who use English fluently at home anyway. But there are many families who speak mainly Asian languages  at home(Chinese, Japanese etc) sending their kids to IS nowadays and these parents never went through the IS system themselves. So it may come as a pleasant surprise when they find their kid fluent!

我都係港式傳統學校出來，但我並唔會覺得我孩子英語好 ( 包括口音 ) 係甚麼一回事，因為我早已調節了我對孩子，對學校的要求。孩子英語好，係應該的，正常的，冇乜特別。國際學校，全英語環境，一日差不多 6 小時在學校，見老師時間，隨時多過見媽咪，英語必然好，亦應該好。

國際學校現在主要服務本土香港人，但正如你話，很多家長本身可能未受過西方學校的教育，因此都難免會依然用著對本地學校的 mentality 去教孩子，這樣，學校不可能真正成為國際學校。

家長要調節一下對孩子的要求，讀國際學校，同本地學校唔同。讀本地學校的孩子，敢對著洋人有問有答，已經可以讚；但讀國際學校的，能與洋人流利對答，係應該的。相對，如果國際學校孩子，肯主動講普通話，主動拿中文書看，就真真值得鼓勵。

學校係硬件，係一個空殼，學生才是反映學校水平，學校文化，學校氣氛的。國際學校係英語授課的學校，孩子都早被要求有高英語水平，孩子日常講英語為主，甚至口音好，都是應該的。家長不調節對孩子對學校的要求和期望，學校只會被你們牽著走回頭路，變成 "英文學校" ，變成 "學英語" 的地方，不可能真正是一間國際學校。學校，係學各樣知識的，重點唔應該係 "學英語口音"。

nanshanlu

我不能接受我的孩子:

廣州話有懶音:
n 和 l 不分 (女仔變呂仔, 好難變好藍, 過年變過連 )
沒鼻音(0岩0岩變ARM ARM, 澳洲和勾變OW, 牛奶變OU黎)
含糊懶惰(光仔變江仔)

英語:
尾音加個LA
n l 不分: good night 變good light
懶說st音, 如past/taste/just/
game不是gam
cl: claim 不是cam


普通話:
錯用廣州話的語法

大家會笑我在談"正音"而非"口音", 但我知道從小學壞了, 長大真的很難很難改, 就如我教香港人學普通話, 他們從小習慣了懶音(最嚴重的是不發n音), 在說英語和普通話時, 改起來很吃力．

總而言之, 英語不要"賣飛佛", 要發好每個音節, 因這不是口音的問題, 而是說錯了.

有同感嗎？







         

Pelican

I agree with nanshanlu.
Most of the problem with Hong Kong English is "讀音問題" but not really "口音問題". How many people can really pronounce "twenty", "name", "there", etc. properly? Some people cannot even pronouce his/her own name in the right way. Have you met any Cynthia that introduced herself as Cynfia?