一線LS定係”二線”IS？

mandy_ng207

Thank you for offering all the constructive advices here. I know my son isn't a bright kid, and his fatal weakness is in language development. For a girl, one might expect higher achievements in language learning; for a son, keeping him stay at the homework table is already a blessing. Anyway, I'll let him decide which Chinese character he likes to learn. Afterall, individualized learning is one of the main goals for an IS.
For AI, I can expect that it will play an important role in the future, possibly replacing some of our jobs, probably mine =P So being able to adapt to a changing environment is important, that'll be what the future employers will look for.

shadeslayer

RunningPig 發表於 17-11-28 09:11
當 programming 在美國中國等被認為最有前途的行業，就只有香港人覺得是低層次工作。
...

起一間屋，切磚工是重要，但我不會叫他們最有價值，最有前途的工作。

何況， programming 的入門成本低，印度人有絶對優勢。

woyj

RunningPig 發表於 17-11-28 09:11
當 programming 在美國中國等被認為最有前途的行業，就只有香港人覺得是低層次工作。
...

exactly.  It is a compulsory subject in Singapore

shadeslayer

woyj 發表於 17-11-28 11:15
exactly.  It is a compulsory subject in Singapore

almost all schools in HK teach ICT and part of it is programming.   so almost all students this generation have some form of programming training.   question is how much more is required as a compulsory subject.

as I said as a career, HK programmers are unable to compete with China and India.   Not because if skills but because of costs.  10 years ago programming work have already been moved north.

samsam123321

del.....

woyj

shadeslayer 發表於 17-11-28 11:25
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 17-11-28 11:28 編輯

almost all schools in HK teach ICT and part of it  ...

Thanks for yr info.
I mean it's a compulsory subject for primary schools in sng abt 8 to10 years ago.

RunningPig

香港的科技產業是不成熟，但我現在是講緊 programmer 在全球的 demand。當美國或中國的科技巨企願意以年薪超過十萬美金去請好的大學生做 programmer，而這裏有人以低層次或砌磚工來內容，真係有D攪笑。

shadeslayer

RunningPig 發表於 17-11-28 12:52
香港的科技產業是不成熟，但我現在是講緊 programmer 在全球的 demand。當美國或中國的科技巨企願意以年薪 ...

以前香港係有 programmer 的，我有舊同事就係，十多年前己經被 outsource 去大陸，揾工好難，你見到佢揾工個樣就笑唔出了。

記得以前 2000 年科網熱的時候，公司用 3 萬一月請網站 programmer, 當時好好揾，科網一爆，己揾唔到食。

再講 programming 是 software project 的 building block, 事實上係 software project 中最低層工作。

Alibaba，Amazon 成功唔因為請到好 programmer.

processing power and memory increase exponentially, programming skills are less important than 10/20 years ago.

tibbar2011

回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

"課外活動又包埋" - is that so?  the kids i know of who go to international schools (the so -called "first/second tier" ones) still need to go outside for sports and music etc. Yes perhaps the schools would offer ECA, but i heard its quite casual/minimal (just like how local schools also offer sports and music but you can't count on it alone without support from outside).  Happy to be corrected. This is only what i heard/saw.  
thanks :)

RunningPig

shadeslayer 發表於 17-11-28 13:32
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 17-11-28 13:33 編輯

以前香港係有 programmer 的，我有舊同事就係，十多年 ...

我曾經在這些科技巨企工作多年，我有很多舊同事年薪半百萬美元，現在工作時間過半還是 programming。外行人不明行內運作好正常。

balloonbulu

回覆 RunningPig 的帖子

唔明好正常. 喺普遍人眼中, programmer就只係 support 部門的同事. 所以我都唔再搭嘴...

RunningPig

balloonbulu 發表於 17-11-28 16:52
回覆 RunningPig 的帖子

唔明好正常. 喺普遍人眼中, programmer就只係 support 部門的同事. 所以我都唔再 ...

香港人剩識講 IT，用建築行業比喻，就好似把不同職位如 Architect (vs System Architect)，Project Manager (vs Tech Lead or Senior Programmer)，砌磚工 (vs Junior Programmer)，物業管理 (vs IT Support)，通通叫建築佬。

而 Software Industry 同建築行業最唔同，是就算你做到 System Architect，都有不少時間做 programming，一來好而有經驗的 programmer 的生產力可以係 junior 的幾十倍，二來 software system 比 building 複雜好多，要 keep programming to stay relevant。

好可惜係香港大部份的工種是 IT support 或 simple outsourced projects，所以好多香港人就以為 programming 全球都係好低層次的工作。我識一D香港尖子在香港讀 computer science，畢業後被美國科技巨企請去美國，做到 Tech Lead 或 System Architect，仍有不少時間 programming。

Baymax2009

RunningPig 發表於 17-11-28 17:43
香港人剩識講 IT，用建築行業比喻，就好似把不同職位如 Architect (vs System Architect)，Project Manage ...

“好可惜係香港大部份的工種是 IT support 或 simple outsourced projects，所以好多香港人就以為 programming 全球都係好低層次的工作。”

是。香港其實也有不多的高級programming的職位，但大部分都不是本地人在做。本地尖子生是不屑於學習compute science的。

RunningPig

Baymax2009 發表於 17-11-28 18:04
“好可惜係香港大部份的工種是 IT support 或 simple outsourced projects，所以好多香港人就以為 program ...

Good observation! The problem is that not many top students in HK study CS so those studying CS are good at either English or programming language or neither (BUT NOT BOTH). Hence those high paying programming jobs in HK are filled by foreigners.

shadeslayer

RunningPig 發表於 17-11-28 18:18
本帖最後由 RunningPig 於 17-11-28 18:19 編輯

Good observation! The problem is that not many top  ...

Dont you get it?  Software Architect is a high paying job not because of their programming skills.

Even the US is using their H1B visa to import cheap labor from India etc.

as I said computer and phone memory and processing power is increasing exponentially. The need for clever and memory efficient coding is gone.  Uber or DJI drones or Garmin Smart watches are successful not because of clever programming or first class software architect. In these successful tech products, programming/coding is just a tiny mundane part of the product cycle.

Anyone anywhere in the world can learn coding with just a PC.   How can anyone compete with India?

Almost 18 years ago, I was responsible for a project to outsource product programming from "all" of Asia to India

以為求其香港做個 programmer 係高收入，真係唔知邊個係外行。.

Baymax2009

凝聚態 發表於 17-11-28 18:27
真正懂IT的人就會明，構思及創造一個IT系統（簡單的如或手機的App)的應用範圍及功能，使用方法等等才是最重 ...

架構師可以不做programming，但完全不懂programming是不可能，而通常他們的代碼都寫得超級無敵好。有一個做架構師的朋友，代碼寫得似神技，在我眼裡是天才來的。還有一個十年前已做到年薪五百萬高管的，偶爾還是會幫下屬改下代碼。

shadeslayer

tibbar2011 發表於 17-11-28 14:24
回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

"課外活動又包埋" - is that so?  the kids i know of who go to international  ...

almost everyday there are  bunch of ECA including all kinds of sports from school.  School team practice also.

There is certainly enough to occupy kids time. But whether or not they are sufficient, it really depends.

chowmn65

如果你想睇新校 可以留意下Chinese Academy Primary School
今年去scmp果個international school fair見過
aim at小朋友去oxbridge d 大學
不過始於仲新 你同太太應該要做多d research
應該為小學友揀一間適合佢既小學！

chowmn65

同埋揀好一間就唔好成日諗轉黎轉去
一黎小朋友適應環境都辛苦 社交圈子咁唔穩定
心理實受好大壓力
我覺得小朋友最緊要係身心發展