王偉雄：College 和 University的區別

elbar

自從我寫過阿樂會入讀 Williams College 後，有些朋友問我 college 和 university 的分別，有些甚至以為 college 不是大學。有見及此，決定寫一篇短文略為解釋。


首先，美國人說「上大學」一般只說 「go to college」 而不是 「go to university」，例如 「My daughter will go to college next year」；此外，大學教育一般的說法是 「college education」，大學學位是 「college degree」。


雖然 college 是大學，但 college 和 university 還是有分別的。Liberal arts colleges (可以譯作「文理學院」，另一較造作的翻譯是「博雅教育學院」)幾乎全是私立的，規模較小，只有一二千學生，大多只提供本科教育，少數有碩士課程，但一定沒有研究院。


還有，liberal arts college 著重通才教育，包括體育、德育、思辨能力、領導才能等，不只是傳授知識，更不會提供偏重職業技能的課程(例如會計) 。


University 分研究型和教學型，前者規模很大，有不同的研究院；頂尖的研究型大學裏，研究生的人數可以比本科生多(例如 Columbia University)。


教學型大學大多是公立的，沒有研究院，但很多都有碩士課程；教學型大學的規模比研究型的小，但比起 liberal arts college 則仍然大很多，學生至少過萬，提供的課程也較多樣化，而且肯定會包括偏重職業技能的課程。


這樣的解釋好像很清楚了，可是，不要以為名字是「university」的一定是 university，名字是 「college」 一定是 liberal arts college。長春藤聯盟裏的 Dartmouth College 是 university，另一名校 College of William & Mary 也是 university；Wesleyan University 是 Little Three 之一(另外兩間是 Williams College 和 Amherst College；Big Three 是 Harvard , Yale, 和 Princeton) ，名為 university，卻是一間不折不扣的 liberal arts college！


還有一點容易令人混淆的，是 university 可以由不同的 colleges 組成，例如 college of natural sciences 或 college of humanities and fine arts；有些研究型大學則將整個本科教育部份稱為 college，例如 Harvard University 裏的 Harvard College --- 在哈佛大學本科畢業，可以說 「graduated from Harvard College」。


以上講的只是美國的情況，其他英語國家裏，college 和 university 的分別並不一樣。例如加拿大的 colleges 很多是職業先修學校，只頒文憑，不授學位；就算是頒授學位的，也會被認為比 university 低級。假如你在美國讀 liberal arts college，即使是最顯赫的，你那些對美國教育制度不熟悉的加拿大姨媽姑姐也可能會認為你連大學也讀不上！

shadeslayer

原帖由 elbar 於 15-06-06 發表
自從我寫過阿樂會入讀 Williams College 後，有些朋友問我 college 和 university 的分別，有些甚至以為  ...

Add to this confusion is also UK universities' "colleges" which provides pastoral care to students and "university" which looks after academic side of things. You have to pay University tuition fees and  college fees. Oxbridge are some of the universities who follows this tradition.

slamai

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In actual fact, colleges' tutors in Oxbridge also look after the academic progress of their students, e.g. during the tutorial sessions and giving/marking assignments.

shadeslayer

slamai 發表於 15-6-7 00:32
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In actual fact, colleges' tutors in Oxbridge also look after the academic p ...

Yes, just tutorials, and usually from students to students.

slamai

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Playing down the importance of tutorials (in Oxford) / supervisions (in Cambridge) is a misconception. Tutorials / supervisions are definitely not something between students to students but are unique personalised teaching in Oxbridge's collegiate structure which are highly regarded because these tutors /  supervisors are world experts in their fields.  Other assessments in colleges include collections (in Oxford).

shadeslayer

原帖由 slamai 於 15-06-07 發表
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Playing down the importance of tutorials (in Oxford) / supervisions (in Cam ...

I did not play down or up, just what I know. I did not say it was not useful. When I said (graduate) students giving tutorials to (undergraduate) students, it was what I saw.  Graduate students can also be world experts in certain field.  It was also not as "personal" like it used to be. It was one tutor to 2 students. May be the times have changed, from lecturer giving tutorials one on one to graduate students giving tutorials to students 1 to 2.

slamai

Tutors are not graduate students in Oxbridge.

shadeslayer

原帖由 slamai 於 15-06-08 發表
Tutors are not graduate students in Oxbridge.

Yours is a sweeping statement that no graduate students ever gave tutorials to undergraduate students in any college, any subject, in the history of Oxbridge.  This statement cannot be right. Lets just say I have first hand information on graduate students giving tutorials for a particular college to undergraduate students many years ago in Oxford. May be it varies across different colleges at different times. But it did happen to the college I know in Oxford.

Anyway, I suspect no one here cares much about who gave the tutorials as it is neither related to the original topic, nor my first post in this thread.

slamai

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I think we all make casual and generalised statements in this forum as the discussion is not meant to be formal at all.  The reality is that normally an Oxbridge student will not have more than one or two PhD students as their tutor(s).  The role of tutors is very important in Oxbridge.  To elaborate more, the tutors are responsible for the admission interviews on behalf of the colleges.  I would imagine students casually skip lectures rather than any single tutorial, if at all.

I do agree that our discussion has deviated from the original topic.

shadeslayer

原帖由 slamai 於 15-06-08 發表
本帖最後由 slamai 於 15-6-8 17:41 編輯

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It is not about formality of speech in a forum. Why did I care to respond?  What does your sweeping statement make me?  A liar?  I know what I said was true so your statement was incorrect.

slamai

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You can go through your previous posts and find generalised statements which suffer from the disadvantage of being inaccurate ... period

shadeslayer

原帖由 slamai 於 15-06-08 發表
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You can go through your previous posts and find generalised statements whic ...

Oh you need to resort to "everybody is sinned so my sin is ok" or "everybody lied before so you have no right to accuse me of lying." kind of argument.

Great one, very strong, universal.

slamai

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Lying is intentional.  I don't think anyone in this forum has any intention to lie which is of no avail.  However, most of us suffer from the disadvantage of inaccurate and/or incomplete information and both of us are no exception. I'd advise you to discuss in a calmer and more harmonious manner ... period

shadeslayer

slamai 發表於 15-6-9 00:17
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Lying is intentional.  I don't think anyone in this forum has any intention ...

Classic diversion tactic. When I point out your specific incorrect statement, you bring it to the general "everybody makes mistake" level. Of course everybody makes mistake. But I am not talking about everybody makes mistakes, I am talking about your specific mistake.

A lie with good intent is still a lie.
An incorrect statement without a malicious intent is still incorrect.

You can argue the mistake is not relevant to the discussion. I say your sweeping statement hurt my credibility when I know I am correct, therefore it is relevant to the discussion.

When my child makes a mistake, I told her to admit it, apologize, learn from it and move on ..... Period.  

DreamKid

elbar 發表於 15-6-6 12:46
自從我寫過阿樂會入讀 Williams College 後，有些朋友問我 college 和 university 的分別，有些甚至以為  ...

香港中學都叫 college
亦試過有朋友以為 college 係指 community college

SorTo

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I feel sorry for you for having to discuss with someone who takes others' general statements as "sweeping statemens" but his own exception statements as general statements. If someone doesn't want to know the difference between a tutor in oxbridge and a tutor in American colleges, I suggest you let it go.

shadeslayer

SorTo 發表於 15-6-9 15:01
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I feel sorry for you for having to discuss with someone who takes others' genera ...

I don't need to be explained the tutorial system in Oxford because I was there.  But when I saw something inaccurate I need to point that out.

I said "Tutorials are usually students to students"


Slamai replied with "Tutors are not graduate students in Oxbridge".

If you follow the discussion and can't tell which statement is sweeping, definite and inaccurate, I have nothing to say.

slamai

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Thank you for your impartial comment.

slamai

回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

Maybe you have a lot of time to indulge in circumambulating discussion.  Maybe you think mentioning having been to Oxford can increase your credibility.  Maybe you have difficulties in understanding my posts and intention.  But I must explain to you that my posts explaining the tutorial system in Oxbridge are intended for other users of this forum rather than explaining to someone who refuses to open one's mind.