狂谷為選擇

Cello093

AM730
人在中環 - CK
狂谷為選擇                                                
(2011年11月02日)                                       

早陣子有許多朋友提議我，作為父親，應該去看一看那套印度出品的3 Idiots(港譯《作死不離三兄弟》)。最近終抽時間看了，很好看，也有共鳴。儘管如此，現實還是歸現實。
電影要表達的大概是些老生常談。求學不是求分數，找工作要找自己真正有熱情的，要找喜愛的事去做，做出來才會出色及成功。這些訊息正面得讓人無從反駁，我當然也不能反對，熱情跟成功所存在的關係。看一看剛過身的喬布斯，他大概是這方面最精彩的真人示範。
我有許多朋友出盡辦法逼子女讀書，還要讀一些易找工作，又「比較搵到錢」的科目。這些朋友莫非不清楚，強迫子女出不了好結果；沒有熱情，工作也不會出色的道理嗎？當然不是。他們的理由是，子女讀了這些書，得到這些裝備，等於買了個保險。他日子女長大後，在追逐自己理想的同時，起碼有個讓他們糊口的學歷，至於理想和飯碗子女怎樣選擇，便是他們自己的事了。
父母的工作是為子女裝備，讓他們將來能有條件選擇。可悲的是，在不斷狂谷學業成績，兼在階級觀念仍重得過分的華人社會裡長大的小朋友，有幾多人發現父母兒時狂谷他們，為的只是讓他能有選擇權？經過多年「磨練」，飯碗之外，他們還培養得到「理想」這選擇嗎？當日狂谷他們讀書是為了幫孩子們買個保險。然而這個保險，到頭來卻變成了他們的人生。
小孩子在教育工廠裡生活，十幾二十年之後，其實你可以期望些甚麼？

Parisienne

Agree !!!
除咗要面子外，我相信係因為父母對將來缺乏信心，所以認為唔理咁多，狂谷咗先算，起碼唔好輸蝕先。咩理想咩空間，好奢侈啫！食都唔夠人爭，講咩理想？
好可悲，所以我話，如果我係個b,我情願唔出世。咁缺乏信心，點解要生我？生咗又話要谷，唔谷我死硬，飯碗都爭唔到，做硬低收入人士.....
好似成功就只有一個指標。

Parisienne

＜一群自小就接受〝狂谷〞的小朋友,即使他們接受"谷"的大環境大致相同, 但他們成長後的性格,成就一樣大不相同. 我絕不相信而家d心理專家流行講果d"童年陰影"之類的簡化晒既因果關係, ....＞

正正是因為'狂谷'後，他們成長後的性格，成就一樣大不相同，所以就証明咗：唔係〝狂谷〞就一定可以令孩子成功。相反，除咗小數孩子在狂谷十年八載後終於脫變成超級無敵尖子外，大部份都如樓主post 的文章所說 :

＜...可悲的是，在不斷狂谷學業成績，兼在階級觀念仍重得過分的華人社會裡長大的小朋友，有幾多人發現父母兒時狂谷他們，為的只是讓他能有選擇權？經過多年「磨練」，飯碗之外，他們還培養得到「理想」這選擇嗎？當日狂谷他們讀書是為了幫孩子們買個保險。然而這個保險，到頭來卻變成了他們的人生。＞

我唔想為咗幫子女買份保險而狂谷佢。我深信狂谷嘅背後只會呃殺孩子嘅思想。

Yanamami

是父母要面子吧! 怎可輸給其他人?  人家學5樣, 我的要學6樣; 人家拿credit, 我的要拿distinction.  名校選盡精英, 我的定要在人前.  所以除了沒有目標的父母, 還有好勝的父母.

ANChan59

So true.....

MaryBrown

我覺得那些谷的父母，才是不實際！

谷是希望子女成才? 才是甚麼定意？是為將來讀大學、做專業人士、定係有錢人？

讀大學，現在通街是：太易了, 何需谷?
做專業人士,  是需要專業訓練，不是市面上谷的課程， 而且如果家人已在執業，才最清楚那專業需要甚麼知識
有錢人,  那家長你自己努力賺錢比仔女好過

谷的,多數是父母以上都不是，才冇目標,  亂衝

ANChan59

原帖由 Yanamami 於 11-11-9 16:05 發表
我發覺好多方面都有個共通點--無都男女關係又好, 同青春期子女相處又好, 安排ECA又好, 讀書都好, 要識放風箏禁收放自如, 真係有排學/ 摸索.....

Yes, that's why I say "management".......

Add oil

samuel89

我覺得不是大家認為人生跟本就係咁現實, 而是事實人生跟本就係咁現實.......
我反而認為不是將〝狂谷為選擇〞化為人生觀，左右銘的問題.........正如你講一樣米養百樣人，人生觀是會隨著人生的階段而不斷地改觀,轉化,.....其實我比較相信老子的"上善若水", 一群自小就接受〝狂谷〞的小朋友,即使他們接受"谷"的大環境大致相同, 但他們成長後的性格,成就一樣大不相同. 我絕不相信而家d心理專家流行講果d"童年陰影"之類的簡化晒既因果關係, ....
試問....
//當然，目標如果係自已定，自谷嘅過程係快樂。
但如果目標係人地定比自已，谷嘅過程應該係痛苦嘅。//
我地點可以將定目標甘簡單二元化為自已定or人地定比自已呢? 我相信就算系人地定既目標只要有日自己睇到有機會達標,好自然就會變成自已定, 相反就算系自已定既當達標無望果陣, 好自然谷嘅過程仲痛苦過自已定.....

Parisienne

〝狂谷〞本身就帶有強逼的意思。
不過一樣米養百樣人，我都相信有D人非常受谷，樂意被谷，兼且就算你唔谷，佢都會自谷。谷得開心，谷得甘心。因為佢明白，狂谷後可以達到目標。

當然，目標如果係自已定，自谷嘅過程係快樂。
但如果目標係人地定比自已，谷嘅過程應該係痛苦嘅。

除非人已經麻木，麻木到自已已經接受狂谷跟本就係生存之道，社會定律，呢個世界你唔谷就輸，輸就無運行，要生存所以就要狂谷。

狂谷為選擇＝唔谷無選擇。

如果大家認為人生跟本就係咁現實，而子女都應該早日明白同及早接受呢場人生競賽，將〝狂谷為選擇〞化為人生觀，左右銘，那麼，你個仔五歲先起步已經實屬太遲，前途應該都無乜架啦，父母應該係懷孕四個月已經攞張醫生紙去名牌幼稚園排隊，一年後便可以上該名校playgroup，繼而踏上人生輝皇的一頁。
否則，祝君安好。

原帖由 samuel89 於 11-11-9 14:40 發表



其實狂唔狂谷既分別,根本就系在於父母及子女是否有呢個心態.......唔系一日究竟排左幾多野俾子女學, 子女是否有空閒時間,,,,.... 我相信如果子女明白晒個心態, 就算連1小時"發呆"既時間都冇, 佢地都系快樂 ...

Yanamami

我發覺好多方面都有個共通點--無都男女關係又好, 同青春期子女相處又好, 安排ECA又好, 讀書都好, 要識放風箏禁收放自如, 真係有排學/ 摸索.....

ANChan59

I look at the case as expectation management of parents.

If parents are more well educated, more social connected and have financial resources, I feel more comfortable and no need to drive him/her too much, as I have wide spectrum of choices.

If parents don't have this background and don't know the standing of their kids, I will copy what other parents are doing and add on more and more ECA or ........ to get a better choice/chance. No matter its applicable to my kid or my kid like it or not......

Most of us are in between, we make the balance point between expectations. It's an art .......

Yanamami

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-11-9 14:35 發表
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

samuel89

原帖由 motherotk 於 11-11-9 14:24 發表
perfect circle is a metaphor only..

a good reminder for me from a good friend of mine in understand what is life, just to accept imperfection of life.. to accept who I am as an inperfect mum, and teach kids to accept who they are, regardless of what limitations they have.

其實狂唔狂谷既分別,根本就系在於父母及子女是否有呢個心態.......唔系一日究竟排左幾多野俾子女學, 子女是否有空閒時間,,,,.... 我相信如果子女明白晒個心態, 就算連1小時"發呆"既時間都冇, 佢地都系快樂既.......

ANChan59

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

motherotk

sure, thanks!!

perfect circle is a metaphor only..

a good reminder for me from a good friend of mine in understand what is life, just to accept imperfection of life.. to accept who I am as an inperfect mum, and teach kids to accept who they are, regardless of what limitations they have.

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-11-9 14:20 發表
Just for fun.

You said how to draw a perfect circle.... I taught him to use templates, like for circles, chemistry-apparatus, eclipse, flowchart symbols, electronic & electrical symbols......... just ...

ANChan59

Just for fun.

You said how to draw a perfect circle.... I taught him to use templates, like for circles, chemistry-apparatus, eclipse, flowchart symbols, electronic & electrical symbols......... just small tricks all diagrams are perfect, because of tools.

Go to any big bookstores, you can find them. In my good old days, all come from Germany, very expensive, now come from Taiwan or China, very reasonable.

motherotk

Yes, your efforts have great outcome..by this stage, good learning examples for us.

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-11-9 13:51 發表


I will get my son involve in the process, may not work well in primary, but it works well in secondary, particularly at senior high ......... explore career options, university programs, local or ov ...

ANChan59

原帖由 motherotk 於 11-11-9 13:39 發表
Yes, that's a good point, we learn to get the point and learn to get the skills on how to do this.

I will get my son involve in the process, may not work well in primary, but it works well in secondary, particularly at senior high ......... explore career options, university programs, local or overseas, what subjects to take at senior high, balance between academic vs ECA vs lesiure time ......

Somewhere, sometime, we can come up agreed objectives and move on together, as what you said in another post, with our support, love and understanding.

motherotk

Yes, that's a good point, we learn to get the point and learn to get the skills on how to do this.

原帖由 awah112 於 11-11-9 11:56 發表
要提供"機會"但又唔好盲目---

motherotk

3) some mental health issues, such as anxiety symptoms, depressive symptoms, not very obvious sometimes or at the begining for kids on these symptoms when comparing with adults.

Kids show behaviors instead of symptoms, so parents rarely detect the serious of the issues.... in the long run, suddenly explode when the kid unable to bear the long term stress of achieving "perfectness" to meet parents' "perfectness" and the teachers' "perfectness" and peers' "perfectness".


4) some kids have great potentials, but not yet demonstrated at younger age, already destroyed their confidence to explore or to persude the interest, to kill their curiousity, sometimes, you don't need to be perfect when drawing a circle, if he obsessed to do this due to school or parents' perfectness culture, he incoporats this culture day by day, and treat it as a part of his/her life, then there are too many "shoulds" & "oughts", no flexibility in his problem solving, no way out when the stress blow

原帖由 ok_ko 於 11-11-9 13:11 發表
Please elaborate your point (3) & (4) in more details.