新高中課程 對持分者，有那些裨益 (#1藍色補充)

ANChan59

明年是香港第一屆新高中的香港文憑考試，新高中已實施兩年了，對學生、老師、家長、大學、雇主及其他持分者，有那些裨益呢？當然部份持分者要較後期才體會成效。

為了方便理性討論，現附上相關官方資料以作參加:
http://334.edb.hkedcity.net/EN/index.php

其實較早前教育局亦透露NSS有部份參照IB，我希望有d觀點可以讓學生更有效學習或者另尋出路。

我建議集中幾方面討論:

1. 是否每個學生都要讀高中?如果是否，現今另外學制如青年學院能否容納及滿足這批學生? 每年就會考有數千學生"零"分，而家課程重深d。雖然，以後唔再拉curve，唔會成績好左掛......

2. 以前覺得如果唔一定入到大學，讀預科有何作為？現在有更多人高中畢業，18%入大學，入唔到大學者，一係海外升學，唔係就高級文憑或者副學士。讀多一年中學，讀少一年預科，在大學讀多大半年通識........ 駛多唔少錢，原因就係為世界接軌。

3. 如果將慳番d錢用在幼稚園(提升教學質素、而非簡單的學卷)、用於小學的中或小班教學，認真拔尖補底，是否對基本教育及莘莘學子有更大幫助。

4. 文中有理、理中有文，是否較傳統既文、理、商更合乎現今社會需求?

Stccmc
社會應該要多點 generalists, all-rounded education， 所以中學文理兼備我認為是好的。specialists 在大學才分科還未遲。不過要考慮跟不上的同學的出路，有他們的選擇，發掘他們文理以外的長處，不要浪費光陰金錢。

Annie123
有文有理的課程，其實在外國，有些大學也採用。美國很多 liberal arts college/university 也是要學生每個範籌都要讀。其實，我覺得很適合 late bloomers，很多孩子，遲遲未想清楚自己想往那個方向走，讀 liberal arts，可能在過程得到啟發。

我大部份同意以上評論。但到大學選科，我偏向選擇專業科目而非普通科目。當然孩子未有方向時，普通科目是較佳選擇........

5. 加入應用學科及其他學習體驗，能否幫助學生的成長及了解自己的發展方向，幫助全人發展、升學、就業.....

6. 通識教育的真正目的及如何幫助學生成長?(可能達唔到某d人既期望，整多個必修科 ─ 國民教育!!!)

7. 有否週詳考慮學生海外升學的接軌問題?

8. 近期既新問題係課程在部份低、中組別學校，唔夠時間教完課程......... 好似勉強低組別學生應付一些未必適合既課程..... 教局好似偏幫補習學校.......

事實上如果學生程度不夠，會考零分，雖然多一年學習但課程更深，是不需要的。個人認為可以將科目分為核心課程(Core)及附加課程(Extended module)兩部份，跟數學一樣。學生能力普通者，可以選核心科目(等同 IB 的standard level, SL)，能力較佳者，可以選核心課程及附加課程(等同 IB 的higher level, HL)。因應能力、大學選科及程度較合理，可能學習動機會較佳，成績會較好。

當然亦有其他衍生問題，有人會覺得有標簽效應，有人會覺得複雜，但係對學生是否有幫助呢？我既論點如下:

* 有人會覺得有標簽效應
事實係有標簽效應，既然部份學生只有極微機會入大學，點解唔早d比學生及家長知道。唔講唔等於無標簽效應。

** 有人會覺得複雜
IB已實施多年，有參加價值，事在人為而已。

*** 但係對學生是否有幫助呢
學生追求入大學，可按大學及學科要求讀HL/SL，現在一簡就好深(除了數學及綜合科學)，學生挫敗感增加 .......

事實綜合科學、數學已有類似安排，應該推廣。簡SL會影響入大學機會，但無影響他們的學習機會.....

再者，香港已經有資歷架構，不同學歷、經驗、持續進修...可以等同不同級別，學生亦可以持續增值提升級別......

9. aob

先申報利益，小兒將會讀IBDP第一年，家中無人教中學，無人開補習中心(要考慮作退休打算!!!有教育局呢班官，想唔發都難!!!)、無人做升學顧問.........

歡迎討論

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-7-29 12:51 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 雙儿 於 11-8-1 18:46 發表
LSE does not have a quantitative finance program at undergraduate level. In fact, no first-tier universities in the UK or US offer quantitative finance at undergraduate level. It's a completely uniq ...

You are right about LSE, it doesn't provide QF.

I shouldn't lump them together, be exact -
LSE - Economics
CUHK, HKUST - QF

all need Maths HL - score 7.

雙儿

原帖由 judy 於 11-7-28 11:02 發表
两個侄兒都入到熱门嘅科目，佢地嘅父母可能連IB係咪東東都唔知。我始終相信，讀書尋知識，讀好書，自然考好試，考好試，自然入到大學。

Judy

唔得，我諗真啲都係要認真講多幾句: your words are more dangerous than just 風涼話. If parents listened to you and planned nothing but just hoped their kids' hard work would lead to the door of local universities, what happens if their kids are not within the top 18%. Or take my daughter for example, she may be just within the top 18% but I'm not sure whether she would have been good enough for the major she chose if we had planned to send her to a local university. For your son or nephews, they're in the top 2-3%, the problem for them is just what to choose among the many choices life has offered them.

I was not within "the 18%" myself. I'd have remained as a high school graduate if my parents had followed your advice, which does sound so appealing.

[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-8-1 19:17 編輯 ]

雙儿

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-7-30 12:51 發表


For LSE, CUHK, HKUST, for economics and quantitative finance need modelling & forecast, econometrics ...... IB they need Maths HL-7, AL Pure maths A ...... are min requirment. It makes sense.

LSE does not have a quantitative finance program at undergraduate level. In fact, no first-tier universities in the UK or US offer quantitative finance at undergraduate level. It's a completely unique thing invented by Hong Kong, first at CUHK, then UST, and finally HKU was forced to follow suit.

[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-8-1 19:13 編輯 ]

annie40

阿大幾年前開始去做服務，最高峰時一年近二百小時。有一段時期，每個星期一次，到一盲人中心，為盲人折信，讀報紙。也有一段時期，帮人補習，拖看疲勞的身軀回家，草草吃下半碗飯，又繼績讀書。

阿大係為將來升学圖謀嗎？一定唔係。佢為响應應環保，30幾度都唔開冷氣，不再吃牛肉。有幾次一早到自修室而折返，話唔想得一個人而要開成間房嘅冷氣。

Judy,

连我自己都未搅清楚想讲物,就似乎比你估到, 我应该是悲还是喜?  

我在此也说些风凉话, 如我是Oxford 等ivy league的admission officer,肯定会主动地用个超低分数吸引阿大入读. 包埋scholarship , 希望阿大愿意屈就考虑吓.

得子如此, 乎复何求.  

annie

p.s. 我家是节俭,健康兼环保型, 除却海外亲戚来港住宿的日子和女儿同学仔到访以外,最少三年未开过冷气. 环保因素是最后, 无阿大的思维咁正气,

原帖由 judy 於 11-7-29 15:54 發表


先拋吓書包先：

子禽問於子貢曰：“夫子至於是邦也，必聞其政，求之與？抑與之與？”子貢曰：“夫子溫、良、恭、儉、讓以得之。夫子之求之也，其諸異乎人之求之與？”


又繼續我嘅风凉話，之前講讀書嘅嘢，依家講講服務和課外活動嘅嘢 ...

ANChan59

原帖由 ksenia 於 11-7-31 14:16 發表
如果以non-jupas入呢?多了既學位會分比non-jupas 嗎?

No definite answer yet.

ksenia

如果以non-jupas入呢?多了既學位會分比non-jupas 嗎?

ANChan59

原帖由 ksenia 於 11-7-31 13:57 發表
早前睇SCMP,話公立醫院太多醫生流失,所以香港2大既medical school會收多D人,特別係DSE第一批既學生,唔知係真定假

For the first three batches of HKDSE, the quota from 320 increased 420 seats (HKU + CUHK).

ksenia

早前睇SCMP,話公立醫院太多醫生流失,所以香港2大既medical school會收多D人,特別係DSE第一批既學生,唔知係真定假

ANChan59

原帖由 ChiChiPaPa 於 11-7-30 10:26 發表
恆商只讀AS-level的Math&Stat。

Most of their students got 27-29 in HKCEE, not all but some from science stream can take AL Pure Maths ...... don't understand......

ANChan59

原帖由 Annie123 於 11-7-29 21:08 發表
This is so disappointing!

I know that 恆商 has got really good results (ie lots of A's). But I am curious what universities/programs do their students get into too. If students have not got the rig ...

Annie123

You rasied an interesting question, which university and which program they admitted in the past years? HSSC only announced their excellent HKAL results, but seemed not mention much about the final destination in HK & overseas. In the last year overseas scholarship, all to UK.

If their 5A students only can get in a 2nd tier university in UK even with scholarship as mentioned by 雙兒 ...... something wrong of their subject selection?? Focus on A instead of university programs and career advancement.....???

ANChan59

原帖由 雙儿 於 11-7-30 09:12 發表
Most of them read business or social science subjects in universities. However, since they are not offered pure maths, they cannot read quantiative fianance or risk managment science.

For LSE, CUHK, HKUST, for economics and quantitative finance need modelling & forecast, econometrics ...... IB they need Maths HL-7, AL Pure maths A ...... are min requirment. It makes sense.

ChiChiPaPa

恆商只讀AS-level的Math&Stat。

雙儿

原帖由 Annie123 於 11-7-29 21:08 發表


This is so disappointing!

I know that 恆商 has got really good results (ie lots of A's). But I am curious what universities/programs do their students get into too. If students have not got the rig ...

Most of them read business or social science subjects in universities. However, since they are not offered pure maths, they cannot read quantiative fianance or risk managment science.

Referring to one of your previous posts, raising the threshold of professional programs to graduate level is the trend. My daughter just told me you now need a master degree to take on the AICPA exam in California. OMG, what a ridiculous world it is. We need someone with a maste degree to know which side of the paper, the left or the right, to put down a number.

eviepa

人才不是培養出来的，是不被破壞出來的。

雙兒：

呢句幾我理念。看過太多被父母打罵、要求過高而自暴自棄的個案。

mattsmum

今曰先醒?我那個年代港大已係有收GCE A level了。

ANChan59

Your point well noted.

I heard so many students with good grades rejected by universities. Most of them made fundamental mistakes in the application process and/or interviews.