文憑試數學科（必修部分）的深度

eviepa

昨天買了一本文憑試數學科看看。試題的深淺是意料之中，無甚驚奇。

講下去之前，先交代一下。小弟所認識的會考、Higher Level Exam（中大入學試）、A Level Exam已是很久以前的東西，可能和今天的會考和A Level有些不同，和今天的英國A Level大概更有天壤之別。有最新資料的網友可以Update一下小弟。

讀中學時的學制，中五考會考，然後可以選擇一年後考Higher Level入中大或兩年後考A Level入其他院校。

在數學科裡，Higher Level Exam的General Maths比 A Level的Pure Maths淺，但比會考Modern Maths深。然而，聽理科的同學講，Higher Level的深度較貼近會考而和A Level差很遠。這個很易理解，因為普通學生Higher Level讀六科、很多文科生都讀、而且只讀八個月就要到試場；普通學生A Level讀四科、基本上只限理科生、而且讀一年零八個月。因此A Level Pure Maths是超深的。

然而，雖云Higher Level General Maths較貼近會考的Modern Maths，但General Maths還是比會考深很多。小弟會考Modern Maths拿B，若馬上就做當年的General Maths的話，準會一題也做不來。

講完歷史，回到今天。文憑試數學科（必修部分）的深度比當年的會考深了一點點，範圍闊了一些，但比當年的General Maths淺很多。如果小弟剛考完會考時馬上就做考試局模擬文憑試數學科（必修部分）的題目的話，分數雖然不會像會考一樣取得九十多分，但亦會很高分。所失的分數主要為現在文憑試的範圍比從前會考闊，有些我未讀過。其次是真的較深。

從種種跡像看來，現在英國的A Level Exam數學部分應該很淺易，起碼和當年的香港 A Level Exam的深度有相當大的距離。

會不會現在的香港文憑試數學必修部分就有英國A Level數學的深度呢？

現在香港的A Level和從前的深度有沒有大分別呢？

現在香港的會考和從前的會考的深度有沒有大的分別呢？

ANChan59

Thanks for your recommendation.

The Cambridge Admission Research link as listed for other parents to closely study the methodology and conclusion.

http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/ ... /ib_performance.pdf

Here is exact wording from the report:

Except for a plateau between 40 and 41 points Figure 1 shows that the higher an IB student’s overall points score the greater their likelihood of a good result in Cambridge Arts & Social Sciences courses. A score of 42 points suggests a better-than-average likelihood of a II.1 or a First.

Higher Level scores of 776 or 777 suggest that a student is likely to exceed average performance in the University.

Figure 2 shows that for Cambridge Science courses overall scores of 39 or more give a better-than average
likelihood of a II.1 or a First, this likelihood increasing noticeably for scores above 42.

An IB student with only one 7 in their HL subjects has a below-average likelihood of a good result. Note that the 775 data point in the right-hand graph is based on only five observations and is not statistically significant.

If we assume 95% students using AL results for admission application, so 3As in AL are the norm. So 776 in Arts& Social Science and 775 in Science at HL are above university average, so the academic standing of IB seems to be above AL quite a margin.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-5-26 12:28 編輯 ]

cow

原帖由 ha8mo 於 11-5-23 15:25 發表
What subjects does your son take for DSE?
...
Also in the old days we have CE English exam results to satisfy the UK University entrance requirements. I don't know what the DSE students can do about this if they don't want to submit any DSE results to UK universities. Maybe they also need to sit for the IGCSE English or TOEFL.

My son will not take the HKDSE until a few years later. He may properly take science subjects.

About English requirement, don't  worry. CIE says that,
"Grade C in IGCSE English (both First Language and Second Language) satisfies the English proficiency requirements of many universities in the UK and other anglophone countries."

You may know that some S3 students of some DSSs could get almost 100% passing rate in IGCSE English as Second Language.

Actually most good UK univeristies require at least a Grade 'C' (first language) or 'A' (second language) in English.

ANChan59

原帖由 ha8mo 於 11-5-23 15:31 發表
Stunning Comparison between IB and A-Level (TimesOnline)
From The Sunday Times
July 13, 2008 (

Yes, pretty outdated but still relevant.

You can go to my highlighted post "Sharing of IB vs NSS" in high school sub-forum, I posted more news from UK, like Guardian, Independent..... Also some interesting articles comparison between IB vs AP in US system........

Go back to the fundamental question why IBDP?

We picked IB because the IBDP is a great program cf NSS (limited to HK and my son's school only), that's the upside, but the downside is it's too universial, the local authority like UCAS and universities (for non-JUPAS) may discount their IB score compared with local examination scores.

Education is for life long, examination results only for admission. May be I am one of the famous character " Ah Q"......... , give me a break.

I can't disclose the source, but some universities in HK only accept IB students with score higher than 30 (min entrance requirement for IB is 24), 35+ may have scholarship in HKUST. 40+ is outstanding, 45 is....... .

My son's target is 38+ included bonus point (6*6+3=39), you may ask why always saying 38 and not 39? LSE Economics acceptance score is 38 and Maths 7/HL, for HKUST Global business 38, CUHK Quantitative Finance 38 + Maths 7/HL.......... except Medicine not included bonus point.....

In your attached news, Sevenoaks is the most famous IB school in UK and the World (showcase in IBO website http://www.ibo.org/school/casestudy/000102/slidec.cfm) , the international ranking in IB is top 3, higher than LPCUWC from HK.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-5-23 16:53 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 ha8mo 於 11-5-23 14:58 發表
Where did you hear the Cambridge requirement of 38 points?

I read the following from Cambridge:
http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/medicine/requirements.html

ha8mo

I scaled down the total score of Cambridge medicine to be comparable to HKU & CUHK, as they don't count bonus points (+3), but Cambridge counts the bonus point. For apple to apple comparison only..... My info come from your link.

Maximum        CUHK       HKU         Cambridge
6*7   = 42       40-42       39-42          37-39
42+3 = 45       43-45       42-45          40-42

I used 38+ (average of 37-39) for Cambridge as it is the average of previous scores excluded bonus points.

The above scores only for interview in HK, for Cambridge may be acceptance scores. Eventually, 45 included bonus points equivalent to 6.5 GCE ALs.

Here is a very useful link about medical schools in UK, which I used to benchmark with HKU & CUHK.
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Medical_School_IB_Requirements_2011_Entry

In UK, most universities included bonus points, except HK. So be careful.......

For some professional programs, better study in HK, e.g. medicine and law, no need to sit for professional examinations, very low passing rate.

ANChan59

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-5-23 16:07 編輯 ]

ANChan59

HKALE Grades Admission Figures
                       UE CLC AL-1 AL-2 AL-3
75th Percentile A   B    A      C C           
50th Percentile C   C    A     A  C           
25th Percentile B   B    A     C C

2010 CUHK Law admission grade

Using GCE AL ABB results, I am not sure. But UE and interview may be the key difference. I mean the HK students like most civil servant's kids, study high school in UK and take the AL and then back to HK. Their interview performance may be better than local students.

cow

I have passed all HKAL subjects (you may know the grades range of my HKAL and GCE results). It was impossible for such a HKAL result to enter CUHK or HKU or any other normal degree courses in HK at that time. My GCE result was also useless in HK.

GCE has been upgraded nowadays in HK. A report shows that the requirement for CUHK Law degree was 'BBB' in GCE AL and later increased to 'ABB', now it should be higher. I know a student got conditiional offer and later entering CUHK to study a Language degree with the requirement of 'CCC' only.

ANChan59

原帖由 cow 於 11-5-20 10:34 發表

Agree. When I took the HKAL and GCEAL years ago, their syllabi were almost the same. The HKAL Pure Maths was much more difficult thatn GCE Pure Maths. All my CGE AL grades were 3 grades higher than m ...

A quick question, I assume you got into university, but based on your HKAL or GCE AL?

My case was based on HKAL and not GCE AL..... GCE AL results only made me feel good only.

Now no more HKAL soon, HKDSE is the key, read the expert report, may be more beneficial to your son. He can still take the GCE AL as back up.

cow

原帖由 ha8mo 於 11-5-19 12:17 發表
The syllabus and the examination are different things. The syllabus can be very similar but the difficulty of questions set in exam can be quite different.

Agree. When I took the HKAL and GCEAL years ago, their syllabi were almost the same. The HKAL Pure Maths was much more difficult thatn GCE Pure Maths. All my CGE AL grades were 3 grades higher than my HKAL.

My plan is let my son to take both HKDSE and GCE AL if possible.

ANChan59

I am not upset by the universities, we picked IB and play by the rule. I just comment on medicine only, CUHK needs 40-42 excluded bonus point, HKU 39-42 for interview. Cambridge only needs 38 included bouns for apitude test and interview.

We need to think about backup plan for just in case. My son is comfortable about different scenario.

Some programs of Oxford and Cambridge are using apitude tests to screen the 3As students and then interview by different college.

HKCAAVQ is responsible for academic accreditation.

ANChan59

eviepa

I am not hijack your topic, just provide more angles to widen your view on HKDSE.......

I strongly recommend parents to read the expert report and not just listen to HKEAA or the hearsays in BK.

HKDSE has so many hidden shortcomings and will surface more in coming months. I know some of them but won't discuss here.

ANChan59

ANChan59

ha8mo

I am so glad you read the expert report, parents in HK also like spoon feed and or fast food hearsays. Your hardwork is appreiated.

I read the expert report years ago, I start to think about IB and not NSS, M2 > M1, HKDSE close to HKAL and not HKCEE.

I wish you agreed with my point, parents don't just say the standard of GCE AL lower than HKDSE. Our HKEAA can take the inititative to grade or validate other's standard equivalent to our HKDSE right from the beginning.

Also UCAS consider both local and international grades, why we still using JUPAS & non-JUPAS.... We need transparency in both systems.....

ANChan59

ANChan59

原帖由 ha8mo 於 11-5-19 12:17 發表
What does UCAS validate, the syllabus or th ...

I guess both and also included teaching method, quality assurance, assessment method..........

http://www.ucas.ac.uk/students/ucas_tariff/factsheet/hkdip

Expert report

http://www.ucas.ac.uk/documents/tariff/tariff_reports/hkdipreport.pdf