關於IB的疑問

misstaisen

我想請問下蔡繼有的家長，我去參加了5/19的簡介會，不過聽完之後，有一個疑問。簡介會提到Y6-Y10,讀IGCSE，跟住Y11-12讀IB，沒有提到參加香港的文憑考試。
甘我的理解是：如果CYK的學生要考香港本地大學，應該用參加IB的海外生身份考香港本地大學？定學校會組織同學參加香港本地文憑考試？
這個是很重要的問題，希望有嗎咪幫我解答,多謝

ANChan59

Thanks for your info related to ESF. Be honest, it's not my focus. My focus more on the difference between NSS & IBDP. As my son opt for IBDP by himself, I did my job.

Also, here is mainly for Primary students/parents. Our discussions may off the topic, I will stop here.

Bye.

papa_pop

According to its website, ESF has developed a so-called ESF Diploma which leads to four pathways: (1) IBDP, (2) Advanced Dip, (3) Intermediate Dip and (4) Foundation Dip.

Let's focus on (1) and (2) - as (3) is for "intermediate" transition to the former two, and (4) is meant for those with significant learning difficulties.

(2) is based around a hexagon of 'experience' that features a selection of 'applied' AL courses and B Tec and IB courses.  Apart from a compulsory literacy and numeracy component, it includes IB elements such as TOK, EE and CAS.

To me, this Advanced Diploma is unlike the conventional GCE AL as we have long known that comprises primarily academic subjects.  Instead it seems to provide a way-out for those who may not be able to pursue IB, hence opt to take 'applied' AL and B Tec such as Art and Design, Sport, Digital Media, Fashion and Clothing, etc.

True that they provide some 'applied' AL but I don't see it as a parallel offering of IBDP and GCE AL.  Anyway, I'm no expert and I'd better leave it to those in the know.

ANChan59

ESF - KGV, SIS, WIS have both GCE AL and IBDP. May be changed in the future, not now.

papa_pop

IGCSE is taken more as a testing ground to benchmark the standard of its students.  Instead of taking Y10 as pre-IB, I would say the entire secondary schooling of CKY (Y6-10) is designed to prepare students for the IBDP.  In fact, thesis writing has become the graduation project for Y5.  I think this is the kind of approach and training that's different from the local curriculum.  CKY can afford to do it as it can do away with the local exams / allocation system.

As for ESF... I thought they are migrating to IBDP - abandoning AL.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, if a kid can survive the keen competition in elite schools like DBS and SPCC, I don't think he has any problem with any system.  ANChan, I trust you kid would do well (if not very well) at IBDP.

ANChan59

Thanks for your detail explanation about CKY's structure and teacher profile on IB.

Quick comments:

1. CKY- 5-5-2 with IGCSE as back up, so Pre-IB just like the Grade 10 in CKY.

2. ESF - offers both GCE and IB at the same time, I am not sure about the split of the students. As we aware GCE AL is easier than IB, so only those elite students will go for IB. If CKY can comparable to ESF, it's a good result compare with the overall IB standard.

As a matter of fact, we may wait for another 3 years and then we can see the final throughput.

papa_pop

Many thanks, ANChan59, for your sharing.  It's insightful indeed.

You have raised a few questions that are worth CKY's parents to ponder upon.  To be honest, the more I learn about IB, the harder I think it is to students.  IBDP provides a very challenging curriculum that is demanding as well as rewarding.  It would better prepare students to pursue university studies.  Students are supposed to be all-round and are independent (and critical) learners.  It certainly takes more thinking, analysing and critiquing instead of repetitive drilling and memorising.  I am not surprised that students need to work extra hard in order to get better exam results at IBDP.  But I believe their effort will pay off beyond the exams.

I wouldn't say that CKY students would outperform the two elite schools.  In fact, the comparison might not be fair anyway.  Noting that the majority of IB students at DBS and SPCC would come from the best (of the best) while all CKY students (irrespective of their academic performance) would have to take IBDP.  I would be happy IF their exam performance is comparable to  ESF's - and I dare not compare it with Li Po Chun.

I agree with penguin_chick's observation that the pre-IB year introduced by DBS and SPCC is meant for preparing the students from local curriculum to "switch" to IB.  Don't think IBO has ever endorsed such bridging course or acknowledged its necessity, not to mention its syllabus.

As far as I know, the 12-year system at CKY comprise: 5 (primary) + 5 (secondary) + 2 (IBDP).  I wouldn't say CKY students are better, but it seems to me such a bridging course is not really necessary after 10 years of schooling there.

When it comes to CKY's teacher profile, there are quite a number ofthem from overseas, some IB-trained with relevant experience, eg, Principal Yip.

ANChan59

I copy my sharing in High School sub-forum, I guess some of you may interested in it.

Quote


My son studies in a local DSS (直資學校) school which provided both NSS (新高中) & IB curriculum (國際文憑課程). Our family spent quite some time to evaluate the pros and cons of both curriculum and the admission of Universities and other considerations. I would like to share with you all here, only my personal experience.

Background

The school just offers the bridging course of IBDP (國際文憑課程). this school year and no track record of IBDP (國際文憑課程). and even unauthorized in IBO (國際文憑組織). website (Now, being authorized). The tuition fee will be nearly double for IB stream relative to NSS stream. First year only recruit max 60 students, but only 45 places filled as they only accept the top students and excellent command of English to take IBDP (國際文憑課程). (top 80 out of 240 form ranking).

Our concerns:

1. JUPAS (聯招) vs Non-JUPAS (非聯招)

75% university places for JUPAS and only 25% for non-JUPAS (after further review, 25% is max for CityU, other Us from 10-20%, in case you want to know exactly, pls check each university's admission section.). So the chance seems to be higher for JUPAS. I did some research on LPCUWC (李寶春聯合國際書院) and some ESF (英基學校)and IS (國際學校) schools' university admission results in the last few years (Most IS & ESF schools didn't disclose much of their IB results and university admission results, my wild guess their results not impressive.) LPCUWC - 2009 May IB results average 37.16, HK students average 39.29, overseas student’s average 35.13 and the max will be 45 and passing score is 24. Most ESF and IS's IB average less than 32. LPCUWC IB results with flying colors and 82% students study in HK get into Big 3 (港大、中大、科大) in HK and the subjects are impressive like Medicine, Law, Architecture, Business. If my son's IB results comparative to the bright students of LPCUWC, his chance gets into Big 3 for hot subjects may be higher than JUPAS stream.

2. Curriculum (課程)

NSS has some changes in the curriculum like introducing Liberal Studies (通識) , OLE (其他學習經驗), M1 (統計) & M2 (微積分) on top of core Maths. But the examination papers standard close to A-level. It's easier for teachers, students and tuition centers as most HKCEE (會考) and A-level past papers still valid for them. IB has the curriculum but not very popularly known and sometimes their scope close to 1st year University level, but not in the IB examination. Broad curriculum and not as structural as NSS.

3. Work load

Heavy loading in continuous assessment, many projects, presentation, essay writing, lab work etc. it's very demanding in time management and discipline. Some students even as boarders to save their daily travelling time to meet the deadline. Relative to NSS students, they are still "Hea" and wait for the last year to burn the mid-light oil.

4. Top notch universities

I participated two seminars from Cambridge and Oxford Universities' Admission Officer in HK last October/November. Particularly Cambridge recognized the HKAL, but not for HKDSE (香港文憑試). So he recommended students want to study in Cambridge either study Pre-U schools in UK or go for IB, 38-41 will have a chance for interview and depends on individual college requirement (I won't elaborate college system here.). As A* in HKDSE not equivalent to A* in GCE AL, HK students' chance to study elite universities in UK will be slim. That's why more students study in UK for high school.

5. HK/USA/UK

My son not makes up his mind to study in which regions, IB can be one fits all except some US universities may need SAT or other exam to prove your English proficiency. Pls better check the admission requirement of individual university.

6. Exam expert v Life time learner

No definitely preference, sometimes excellent exam results are essential for further studying and career advancement. If exam upset your kid to study, you need to rethink. (Too much work load may also upset my son).

Tactics to achieve IBDP Bridging Program ((國際文憑銜接課程). place in my son's school

1. Excellent command of English

In IBDP, teacher supposes not teaching grammar or basic English, they focus on literature critique. My son not from the primary division of the school, so may not up to the par of their requirement. So we sent him to a very good English class to polish his English writing skills. Not matter he can get in IBDP or not, his English standard improves a lot in this year.

2. Form ranking

My son reviews his handicaps in continuous assessment and examination results of certain subjects. His final ranking not announce yet, but definitely within top 80.


Unquote

ANChan59

I am looking forward to see how CKY's IBDP examination results compare with DBS and SPCC.

CKY - claimed IB approach from day 1 and go straight to IBDP without Pre-IB; teachers are local and or from overseas??

DBS - Pre-IB before IBDP, most teachers from overseas like UK, US, New Zealand, Columbia etc plus some trained local teachers.

SPCC - Pre-IB before IBDP, most teachers are local plus some from overseas.

DBS and SPCC put in Pre-IB before IBDP and ensure the length of study also 3 years, exactly the same as NSS. The Pre-IB needs students study more subjects than IBDP to assist students to choose the right subjects for IBDP.

DBS offered 56 seats for both DBS and outside boys. This year more top 30 boys picked IB instead of NSS after seeing that the good progress of Pre-IB.

Go back to LPCUWC, old system 5 yrs (F1-5) + 2 yrs (IBDP) = 7 years. DBS & SPCC 3 yrs + Pre-IB + 2 yrs IBDP = 6 years.

I am not sure CKY, can any one share how it works in CKY?

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 10-7-15 15:41 編輯 ]

penguin_chick

Just refered from the ibo website,

"Diocesan Boys' School has been an IB World School since May 2010. It offers the IB Diploma Programme." http://www.ibo.org/school/003913/

DBS is starting their IB programme on September this year, as she has just became IB World School for 2 months. CKY will start hers in 2011, so she still has 10 months to go.

As for the pre-IB or bridging courses for DBS and SPCC, it's not necessity that they were worrying about the gap between local curriculum and IBDP. As their students will be changing from the traditional style to IB, more preparation is helpful. However, even the world best IB college - Lee Po Chun does not offer any bridging course, as their local students mainly came from traditional school.

CKY students are cultivated and trained to be IB students since P1. What should be worried about?

ANChan59

DBS and SPCC provide Pre-IB at Grade 10 and then IBDP for Grade 11-12.

Even DBS and SPCC worry about the gap between local curriculum and IBDP, so they offer Pre-IB to upgrade their students for IBDP. So many schools claimed to run IBDP, but the strategy and progress not align with IBDP.

papa_pop

Timing-wise, CKY will be following similar schedule as that for SPCC, ie, starting to offer IBDP in 2011-12.  Both are currently candidate school as far as I know.

As for DBS, they were candidate school in 2009-10, and just made it to IB world school in time for their offering of IBDP in 2010-11.

I'm no expert though, these examples should shed some light as to a schedule towards becoming an IB world school.

原帖由 penguin_chick 於 10-7-3 13:26 發表
hsbmama 似乎很懷疑 cky 申請IBD 的誠意或能力，其實要成為 IBD學校，是否有一定進程，而現時 CKY 是否跟不上呢？就以CKY預算在 2011年9月開始在第11班開辦IBD課程，則應該在何時要成為IBD學校？ ...

penguin_chick

hsbmama 似乎很懷疑 cky 申請IBD 的誠意或能力，其實要成為 IBD學校，是否有一定進程，而現時 CKY 是否跟不上呢？就以CKY預算在 2011年9月開始在第11班開辦IBD課程，則應該在何時要成為IBD學校？

ate-a-lamb

原帖由 nov03bb 於 10-6-30 18:09 發表
Dear hsbmama,

我所回覆的是我自己的理解, 如有錯大家請指正. 在小學階段, 學校自己設計校本課程, 到初中, 就會根據IGCSE來設計課程, 到高中, 就會行IB文憑課程, 根據學校公開的網頁, 校方已申請成為IB candidate s ...

Hi Nov03bb, u're right.  :D   currently we're up to grade 9 only, IB application progress is on schedule.  Since all foreign visits,  IB auditing..  accomodation fee..etc is at the school's expense, once school is appvd IB she has to pay yearly so progress is under well management for Yr 11.

hsbmama

thanks nov03bb.  guess we have to keep on waiting, and waiting, and waiting... ... ...

原帖由 nov03bb 於 10-6-30 18:09 發表
Dear hsbmama,

我所回覆的是我自己的理解, 如有錯大家請指正. 在小學階段, 學校自己設計校本課程, 到初中, 就會根據IGCSE來設計課程, 到高中, 就會行IB文憑課程, 根據學校公開的網頁, 校方已申請成為IB candidate s ...

nov03bb

Dear hsbmama,

我所回覆的是我自己的理解, 如有錯大家請指正. 在小學階段, 學校自己設計校本課程, 到初中, 就會根據IGCSE來設計課程, 到高中, 就會行IB文憑課程, 根據學校公開的網頁, 校方已申請成為IB candidate school, 預計2011年9月能正式行IBD.:

http://www.cky.edu.hk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52&Itemid=29&lang=en

f.y.i.

nov03bb

原帖由 hsbmama 於 10-6-30 02:57 PM 發表
thanks, nov03bb, for you input.

from what you say, if i understand correctly, the 'school' DOES NOT say they offer IB, because they only use it only for reference and will design their own methods an ...

hsbmama

thanks, nov03bb, for you input.

from what you say, if i understand correctly, the 'school' DOES NOT say they offer IB, because they only use it only for reference and will design their own methods and materials, right... they have THEIR OWN SYSTEM, right? actually, i have no problem with that...  

for me, and the general population, 'IB' means that particular system of teaching. there are broader terms that can include ib, like active learning methods or all-rounded education system... but to say you offer ib means you run by that system (eg. renaissance can really say they offer ib, but some international school ONLY say they offer ib diploma years and state it very clearly).   however, from ALL the people i have come in contact with, parents and non-parents of the school, now i realize they are delusional, they ALL think it offers the ib system???!!!  and THAT'S why its tuition is what it is!  at first i thought it was a matter of time, but years have passed... and hey, they are still not on the list, they r not registered with IBO in anyway... and now from your info, they use ib as a REFERENCE but they designed their OWN SYSTEM...!!

NOW i know how to respond!!!  thank you.

ps. i am not a parent of any of the above schools mentioned.

原帖由 nov03bb 於 10-6-30 12:45 發表
政府334新學制都有人說抄襲IB模式, 如果有問題, 政府實在不會推行. 據校長說, 即使參加PYP/MYP, 都是得個框架, 要學校自己設計(不同IBD), 怎樣訓練學生達至"思考者", "有知識的人", ....., 其實, 中國文化早就有德智 ...

[ 本帖最後由 hsbmama 於 10-6-30 19:40 編輯 ]

nov03bb

政府334新學制都有人說抄襲IB模式, 如果有問題, 政府實在不會推行. 據校長說, 即使參加PYP/MYP, 都是得個框架, 要學校自己設計(不同IBD), 怎樣訓練學生達至"思考者", "有知識的人", ....., 其實, 中國文化早就有德智體群美五育, 及全人教育, 是否IBO倒過來抄襲我們中國文化而加以整理及系統化???  參加IBO要有很多開支, 出席外國會議, 教師培訓, 到校評核....要稱自己用IB授課, 都要經過評核和比錢, 我個人的見解無謂比多餘錢,CKY自行設計的課程, 兼容並蓄, 取傳統及國際學校之所長, 比單憑讀完課外書, 在評估報告稱小朋友是"有知識的人", 更加實際.

原帖由 hsbmama 於 10-6-30 09:43 AM 發表
hi penguin chick,

do you mean "That's mean any school still can use the similar framework if she like WITHOUT paying any money. "???

the principal actually told you guys (parents) that?

if so, that ...

hsbmama

hi penguin chick,

do you mean "That's mean any school still can use the similar framework if she like WITHOUT paying any money. "???

the principal actually told you guys (parents) that?

if so, that's like stealing someone's FRAMEWORK/idea/system... and don't want to pay for copyright and then selling it as the original??!!  hong kong people have very well known words for that... 翻版

sorry, i would question the integrity of the school...!?

and cky don't even have diploma years yet (probably because they don't even have students in those grades)...

"Moreover, the school could make any modification and the curriculum can be more flexible."... ... my question would be... then how much 'IB' is it after their "modification and flexible"???   

afterall, i would think, the purpose of IBO is to make sure the system is running how it should be running, it's like quality control, of the teachers, the methods, the materials, and the environment...  

so you really think that's ok??   and no license, no track record but cost so much... ???????????

原帖由 penguin_chick 於 10-6-25 17:35 發表
Accord to the principal speaking, There are only a framework in MYP and PYP, but no concrete subject matter. However, the school still need to pay for the joining fee.

That's mean any school still c ...

penguin_chick

Accord to the principal speaking, There are only a framework in MYP and PYP, but no concrete subject matter. However, the school still need to pay for the joining fee.

That's mean any school still can use the similar framework if she like without paying any money. Moreover, the school could make any modification and the curriculum can be more flexible.

My two nephews were studying in two UK private school which are the same as CKY.

[ 本帖最後由 penguin_chick 於 10-7-1 00:28 編輯 ]