有媽媽分享下:絕對音感嗎?

miumiu809

有媽媽用絕對辨音器訓練緊小朋友絕對音感嗎?
可否分享一下?
thanks!

Birdsuper

It's easy to get mixed up.  

Absolute Pitch is the SAME as Perfect Pitch = 絕對音感
Relative Pitch = 相對音感

Those with absolute pitch can produce or recognize a single accurate musical note without using an instrument.

打個比喻: 有 absolute pitch 的人就好似一個人唔駛用尺就知道 1 Meter exactly 有幾長.  Sounds very powerful. 但如果什麼數都唔識計, 其實無大好處. 如果要佢轉去 measure 1 Foot (like changing music keys), it's a nightmare (not impossible).  That's why I won't encourage people to train for perfect or absolute pitch.

But usually people with absolute pitch can enjoy music very easily. Most music are well-played in concerts.

I think Relative Pitch is what cemily wants.  簡單來說 Relative Pitch 的人會分得出所謂走音Out of pitch. 一般學樂器時都會有 ear training to help your kids develop relative pitch.

至於 how to develop relative pitch earlier, I think regularly listening to good music (無走音) is the best way. Many Mozart and baroque music are simple and easy to listen, but not limited to those.  Listening can also stimulate brain development.  Play 鐵片琴都不錯.

I am not against Doman or others, but I don't think we need to make the ear-pitch-training so complicated.  It will spoil the fun and the art of music.

原帖由 cemily 於 09-4-3 01:28 AM 發表
I v much wished my child could have perfect pitch cos I am absolutely hopeless. Read quite a bit on the subject and come to the conclusion that I wish my son to have absolute pitch, ie can discern the ...

cemily

Perfect pitch means the child can distinguish each note played, but does NOT mean the child is a musician. To become a true musician, more important factors are a lot of practice, more music listening to nurture music sense (ie express emotions through music) and life experience.

原帖由 bobo 於 09-4-8 17:27 發表


我大仔老師話我仔係 perfect pitch, 佢依家有學琴同鋼片琴, 其實我都好想知有咩途徑可以栽培下佢

bobo

原帖由 cemily 於 09-4-3 01:28 發表
I v much wished my child could have perfect pitch cos I am absolutely hopeless. Read quite a bit on the subject and come to the conclusion that I wish my son to have absolute pitch, ie can discern the ...

我大仔老師話我仔係 perfect pitch, 佢依家有學琴同鋼片琴, 其實我都好想知有咩途徑可以栽培下佢

cemily

I v much wished my child could have perfect pitch cos I am absolutely hopeless. Read quite a bit on the subject and come to the conclusion that I wish my son to have absolute pitch, ie can discern the notes he is hearing but NOT perfect pitch. The latter may mean he cannot truly enjoy music, he may go to a concert and pick out all the instruments and parts of the music that has gone off pitch!!

Absolute pitch can definitely be nurtured through note singing.

Doman's How to Multiply Your Child's Intelligence tells you how to develop a child's perfect pitch.

My 2 cents.


[ 本帖最後由 cemily 於 09-5-19 04:39 編輯 ]

babytowe18

原帖由 cckwan 於 09-3-3 15:58 發表
忘記了上來講返聽後感想 :

咁演藝學院舉辦的講座, 講者分分鍾都唔知係咩架wor...>> 講者當然知係咩啦! 不過她唔主張訓練絕對音感, 她覺得相對音感重要D, 亦舉例外國做過的實驗 - (與妳早前POST的文章講的差不多, ). ...

可唔可以講吓相對音感同絶對音感既分別呢, 因唔係聽得好明, thx
咁係咪無需要做任何訓練呢?可否分享一下你既意見呢?

cckwan

忘記了上來講返聽後感想 :

咁演藝學院舉辦的講座, 講者分分鍾都唔知係咩架wor...>> 講者當然知係咩啦! 不過她唔主張訓練絕對音感, 她覺得相對音感重要D, 亦舉例外國做過的實驗 - (與妳早前POST的文章講的差不多, )...... 外國的音樂學院都是喜歡教是相對音感的學生多D,他們音樂發展空間比較全面.

要搵開發右腦,如:kindu, neuroacademi 之類問下, 佢o地有班係for訓練絕對音感的.>>>  她就是大半堂都講右腦,用了很多時間 (她講的右腦的突觸發展我已認識 - 我們的神經訊號依靠腦中的「突觸」來傳遞。當「突觸」經常受刺激，神經訊號的傳遞便會愈快，也即是頭腦會愈來愈靈活。反之，如果「突觸」缺乏刺激，大腦便會變得遲緩)....她覺得開發「突觸」很重要, e.g. 父母是最親近教導幼兒的人, 如媽媽的音調(說話)比較低沉, 你的小朋友相對來說, 對高音部份會較弱, 便要多聽些較高音的cd(唔係好識點形容),她推薦了芝麻x的cd, 她覺得芝麻x的cd裡比較全面-音樂,小朋友的音色,音 吐字都能用作訓練幼兒之用, 一但發展這方面的「突觸」缺乏刺激, 以後唱不到高音的部份....

問咗小小嘢咋,又夠鐘了:;pppp:

總之, 她覺得唔須要刻意去訓練喎!!

原帖由 miumiu809 於 08-12-5 21:32 發表
咁演藝學院舉辦的講座, 講者分分鍾都唔知係咩架wor...
要搵開發右腦,如:kindu, neuroacademi 之類問下, 佢o地有班係for訓練絕對音感的.

我最近同一個天生擁有絕對音感的朋友(佢生於音樂世家)傾過計, 佢自己都覺得 ...

babytowe18

我屋企都有個類似鋼片琴(約$200, 係咪呢種呢, 但個琴無17個音咁多喎), 但我對於音樂完全唔識, 我應該點做好呢, 係咪要買一些音符 card開始先呢? 又可以係邊到買呢 ?

文章提到 ''要特別提醒您注意的是，在說每一個音名時，一定要說辨音器上所標示的「絕對音名」：例如「中音的C，中音的D升半音，高音的D……」等，這也是正統音樂樂理上的音名'' ....但如果我對音樂唔曉, 我如何知道邊牌鋼片係中音C呢? 請指教

[ 本帖最後由 babytowe18 於 09-2-28 12:25 編輯 ]

Birdsuper

Thank you so much ahdee. This study is interesting and useful.  Now I think BOTH nature and nurture plays an important part.

Just to share from my personal experience, having perfect pitch doesn't always help.  I have trouble playing piano for singers who wishes to adjust the key.  I need extra effort to follow a score if the music is played in another key.  簡譜 or Do-Re-Mi can sometimes drive me nuts.  

Perfect pitch doesn't help me become a better musician.  It's just more sensitive ears to the pitch, then people think you are great.  There were times that perfect pitch comes in handy for singers, but really not a big deal.

So unless there are studies that show perfect pitch training will help language development, I probably will not train my own children on this.

原帖由 ahdee 於 09-2-8 01:08 AM 發表
I think you might be interested in the study of perfect pitch by University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) (http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/study/), I have extracted part of their findings and post  ...

ahdee

I think you might be interested in the study of perfect pitch by University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) (http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/study/), I have extracted part of their findings and post it here:

Based the absolute pitch survey and auditory test data we have collected to date, we learned that the majority of individuals with absolute pitch began formal musical training before age 7. This finding supports the hypothesis that early musical training may be necessary for the development of absolute pitch. However, early musical training alone is not sufficient for development of absolute pitch, because many individuals with musical training initiated before age 7 do not possess absolute pitch.
We also observed that absolute pitch aggregates in families, indicating a role for genetic components in its development. Indeed we found that a sibling (with early musical training) of an absolute pitch possessor is about 15 times more likely to possess absolute pitch than is another individual with early musical training but with no family history of absolute pitch.

原帖由 Birdsuper 於 09-2-6 13:59 發表
I have perfect pitch myself, but very very bad at languages.

If anyone here has research info on this, please share.

I'd like to learn more about this, for the sake of my own kids.  

Do I really  ...

Birdsuper

I have perfect pitch myself, but very very bad at languages.

If anyone here has research info on this, please share.

I'd like to learn more about this, for the sake of my own kids.  

Do I really need to train them? I was told that perfect pitch is something you born with it. Noone really trained me when I was young.  I am NOT from a musicians' family. I simply started piano lessons at 6.

Fat_Fat

If I want to buy 鐵片琴 to train my BB perfect pitch.  Do you know usually what size of 鐵片琴 I need to buy?  Other than Kinder U, where can I buy it and how much?

sara09

鐵片琴同FLASH CARD 都可以在 KinderU 買. 不過唔知flash Card 可否散散買.

miumiu809

咁演藝學院舉辦的講座, 講者分分鍾都唔知係咩架wor...
要搵開發右腦,如:kindu, neuroacademi 之類問下, 佢o地有班係for訓練絕對音感的.

我最近同一個天生擁有絕對音感的朋友(佢生於音樂世家)傾過計, 佢自己都覺得學語言好容易掌握! 不過, 亦真係有報告中所講, 聽到升了調的演奏會混身不對勁的感覺...

cckwan

看完這文章後, 又真係令我哋d家長無所識從...

當同佢玩下啦....

不過, 文章提出的 "音程" "首調唱名" "聽和弦" "和聲" 我音樂底麻麻,唔係好明...我們又可以如何訓練呢? (一於相管齊下, 一齊訓練, 唔知得唔得呢?)

我會去聽一個由演藝學院舉辦的講座, 聽完睇下有咩得著, 再大家討論下..唔知有無機會問下這個專家E方面的訓練方法.

原帖由 miumiu809 於 08-11-26 09:06 發表

我在bb只有3個月大時,參考卡爾威特的彩色吊鈴,都買了set類似的比bb睇下色彩&聽下不同音調.不過就唔算係訓練佢絕對音感.
果時又睇到一d對絕對音感的研究, 大致上係擁有絕對音感,相對某一d腦的功能有別於人,是好是壞, ...

http://homepage.ntu.edu.tw/~gim/gia/pub/ap05_p.pdf
於是,又沒有好認真開始囉~

[ 本帖最後由 cckwan 於 08-12-1 09:33 編輯 ]

cckwan

你都有比佢玩這玩意呀!!!

我準備買以下這種8音手搖旋律鐘 (即蒙特梭利教具
絕對音感鐘
)
http://tw.f5.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/e21984851


你們有沒有買過?

之前,還未知如何用, 現在看了你的資料, 真的幫了我不少忙!!!

原帖由 miumiu809 於 08-11-26 05:48 發表


SARA09,
咁你開始了嗎? 進行順利嗎? 音符CARD自製定買呢? 當flash card咁flash定配合當時教的音調比果個音佢睇?

資料來源: 三之三文化的

教學宗旨:
現在，很多家長把孩子送去補習班學習外語，卻很少有家長能預先想到 ...

訓練方法:
玩的時候，在這17個音裡任選一個，例如中音的D，在寶寶面前敲一下。然後告訴他：「是中音的D。」停個兩三秒，再重複做一遍。同樣過程連續做30秒，每天最少玩三次。
一個音教過10次後才換教另一個音，直到17個音全部教熟。注意做完活動後要將絕對辨音器收起來，不要讓孩子把玩。
這個活動認真做，快則三四個月，慢則六七個月，就可以把孩子絕對辨音的能力培養起來，以後學外語會易如反掌，佔盡先機，如果將來想往音樂方面發展，也有了紮實的辨音基礎。這項活動對提昇聽覺智能有非常大的幫助，宜儘早開始。

Mickey44

原帖由 sara09 於 08-11-26 23:45 發表
miumiu809,
你的資料很詳細. 謝謝你.
我從bb 約 8個月開始, 買了個鐵片琴,(不要用鋼琴或其他有機會音不準的樂器)

得閒就拿出來玩. 每次玩不會太耐, 因要keep住bb興趣.
我都知要每天玩三次, 但我沒有這時間, 和恆心 ...

Where to buy 鐵片琴 & flash card? How much?
Thanks

sara09

當bb大左, 佢唔會坐定定比你教一個音, 重覆到30秒, 佢一定要搞, 所以每次我要一開始先教一個音, 之後就要立刻給她玩上一陣子,一有機會再敲多幾次. 才將鐵片琴收起.

sara09

miumiu809,
你的資料很詳細. 謝謝你.
我從bb 約 8個月開始, 買了個鐵片琴,(不要用鋼琴或其他有機會音不準的樂器)

得閒就拿出來玩. 每次玩不會太耐, 因要keep住bb興趣.
我都知要每天玩三次, 但我沒有這時間, 和恆心.
有時隔了數天甚至一星期才玩一次. 而且每次只是隨意地教她一兩個音. 因我已忘了我教了哪幾個音.
至於音符卡, 我會事先己用玩flash card的形式閃過.

之後敲那個音時, 就再拿出來show 給bb看. (不過後來我己費懶得拿出音符卡, 隨意敲敲個音e.g.middle C, 再告訴bb這是middle C.
我不知道究竟有沒有效. 不過當同bb玩也沒壞的.
(我最初給bb看的音符是從"開心家庭網"download 下來的檔案, 後來我買了一些音符卡, 其實自製都可以)
miumiu809, 謝謝你提供的資料, 讓我要再次重新好好的訓練bb的絕對感.
你有沒有進行?

miumiu809

SARA09,
你會教幾多個音?